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Coronavirus Thread

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3 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

The government has found hundreds of billions of pounds to deal with this pandemic so the idea you couldn't have funded the NHS and indeed other departments better in the last 10 years falls on deaf ears now. The money has always been there, they just didn't want to use it. 

Rainy day money but who is going to be putting it back in? Its going to take years to pay these potentially 2yrs off its not sustainable

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9 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

I genuinely despise being British sometimes. Why can the British public not just do as they’re asked/told? Why can’t our weak leadership not show a bit of backbone and ensure that the laws are followed? People in other countries across the globe might not like their leader/leaders and might have differing opinions, but they do as they’re told, and as a result are keeping the amount of people dying from the virus down and also ensuring that their lives can return to normal much earlier than ours. 
 

Well when they do, the public cry off to the media saying jobsworth police hounded them when they met up for a walk.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

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24 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Yeah I despise Tories as much as anyone however the sheer entitlement of a lot of people to not see the seriousness of the situation is just as bad. The government were put in a difficult place because people wanted their christmas, they wanted to see their family and they didn't want a virus to stop them. Weak government, and this is the consequence. The media and their 'Christmas is cancelled' narrative was also appalling. Merkel was hard and decisive, people in Germany didn't mix at Christmas and their cases and deaths are declining. Pathetic, British arrogance, and now we're paying in lives. 

The rules in Germany allowed Christmas mixing, well they did in the news article I saw before Christmas. 

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9 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

The government has found hundreds of billions of pounds to deal with this pandemic so the idea you couldn't have funded the NHS and indeed other departments better in the last 10 years falls on deaf ears now. The money has always been there, they just didn't want to use it. 

So you think we should just have thousands of empty, but highly staffed beds, just waiting in case this happened? For years on end? Like I asked before, who is paying for that? 

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Just now, Izzy said:

Well when they do, the public cry off to the media saying jobsworth police hounded them when they met up for a walk.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

The government shouldn't give a shit about the public crying off to the media, they have a majority of 80. For some who thinks he's Churchill, Johnson is weak as shit. 

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

It’s all well and good taking the piss out of the police for handing notices out, but you’ve got to bare in mind they have probably seen more legislation changes to one thing in a few months than most have seen in a career.

 

If anyone has seen how the legislation is worded a lot of the time it can be left open to interpretation... 

 

The gov website states that if you are to leave home it is to be for work or essential shopping, and that you must remain within your area, town, village or part of the city you live in..... this on the face value of it may seem pretty straight forward but if you live on a border things could potentially get awkward, because you have left your area.... but it could be only a few miles.

 

Point is, I think the powers that be were not satisfied with the amount of tickets being handed out initially, and it is likely the directive from the government will be for cops to have a zero tolerance approach to people who can’t justify why they are out, and out of their areas... it’s shit but it’s shit for everyone, having the bounties changed from month to month is a bit of a piss take to all concerned, so I can understand why some cops may be less lenient than others. 

It isn't straightforward, and you are also allowed to leave home for exercise. The government haven't made it easy for the police to enforce breaches of the lockdown area by failing to state exactly what 'local area' means. It could mean parish, district council or county or even something else entirely. Scotland, which has a competent, capable and caring politician at the helm, has a rule on leaving home which is simple, straightforward and easy to understand. It says local government area (there is a single tier local government system in Scotland) plus five miles. So for example if you live in Kibworth, near the centre of Harborough district you could go to Wigston or Enderby, just inside the neighbouring authority. How difficult is that?

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Biggest worry for me is how poor the contingency plan and response to an emergency has been. Benefits of doubt in March but no excuse in this second wave. 

 

Problem with all the lockdowns or restrictions is someone complains if it affects them, whether it be hospitality, gyms and leisure, schools and kids sports. It's always we shouldn't have to close or something like that. Completely understand why by the way. 

Edited by RowlattsFox
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27 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I'm glad you've mentioned Italy. 

 

As of 2017 Italy was one of the few eu-15 countries to spend less on health per capita per head than us. 

 

So the fact that they have also had severe problems dealing with covid points that there is a relationship between healthcare spending (or lack of it) and covid deaths. 

image.thumb.png.693c183c43891a7b8130a6aeb4f4f0e7.png

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5 minutes ago, bovril said:

The government shouldn't give a shit about the public crying off to the media, they have a majority of 80. For some who thinks he's Churchill, Johnson is weak as shit. 

I'm sure Boris doesn't give a shit about people crying off to the media, that wasn't the point.

 

The poster stated weak leadership and not enforcing the laws. Well on this occasion, the law was enforced and the women were fined. 

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4 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

So you think we should just have thousands of empty, but highly staffed beds, just waiting in case this happened? For years on end? Like I asked before, who is paying for that? 

The Work & Jobs were there to be given...Doctors Many Nurses &  care staff..doing Too much overtime..Medical staff over-worked,and covering

a  or 2 missing positions...!!!

Private Business would of failed if they incompetently staffed and asked qualified workers to do And share other qualified Work Not in their sphere...

Sorry crap argument..!!

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2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I'm sure Boris doesn't give a shit about people crying off to the media, that wasn't the point.

 

The poster stated weak leadership and not enforcing the laws. Well on this occasion, the law was enforced and the women were fined. 

He does. He cares about being popular and is incapable of making difficult decisions and communicating them to the general public.

 

Also a bit tired of people calling him "Boris" but whatever. 

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Boris was there for the glory ride to Brexit, this sh*t is way beyond his capacity, but that is not a lambast of the government, who, just for those are totally incapable of spotting the difference is made up of a couple more people than some blond gimp.  

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13 minutes ago, The Fox Covert said:

It isn't straightforward, and you are also allowed to leave home for exercise. The government haven't made it easy for the police to enforce breaches of the lockdown area by failing to state exactly what 'local area' means. It could mean parish, district council or county or even something else entirely. Scotland, which has a competent, capable and caring politician at the helm, has a rule on leaving home which is simple, straightforward and easy to understand. It says local government area (there is a single tier local government system in Scotland) plus five miles. So for example if you live in Kibworth, near the centre of Harborough district you could go to Wigston or Enderby, just inside the neighbouring authority. How difficult is that?

The legislation has been rushed through in order to get it implemented. I think in regards to tickets going out more frequently it probably the government have loosely put in “local area” but like you say what does that mean? If I take my dog out for a walk I can easily walk into two different counties..... so I don’t think the designated areas are clear at all. 
 

The fact the tickets were passed through, would lean one to assume that there is an expectation they be given out. I did not hear of many occasion where people were being fined in previous lockdowns, it tended to be parties and larger gatherings.... but I wonder if forces have been instructed to be less lenient, and potentially told if someone can’t give a valid reason to be out of their house then give them a ticket... it’s something that can be disputed, you won’t get arrested unless it is a serious breach or you’re a a repeat offender I imagine. 
 

I wouldn’t say it’s a misuse of power, because they can give these tickets out, it’s the grey areas of the legislation that make it difficult to integrate, but I guess that is the difficulty when quickly enforcing new bits of legislation. 

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3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

So you think we should just have thousands of empty, but highly staffed beds, just waiting in case this happened? For years on end? Like I asked before, who is paying for that? 

There's been strong evidence to suggest that bed capacity has been a problem for years on end.

 

In Leicester,  the General reduced it's ICU capacity from 12 to 1 in 2018. From 2012, Glenfield Hospital - it was planned to close it's heart centre and only through controlled campaign it's remained there until 2021 when it goes over to an already over-subscribed, over-capacity Leicester Royal Infirmary. Again in 2018, the LRI was subject to four hour waits for a bed - the ICU had close in the same year due to staff shortages. The existing capacity has been poor for years - and it's continually been reduced. 

 

I found this out to my own sad personal circumstance.

 

My dying Mum called an ambulance on a Saturday morning and it was 24 hours before she was finally placed in a bed within a manned ward. Approximately nearly four hours awaiting the ambulance, followed by a three hour wait in the queue outside A&E of ambulance and then agonising wait within the building itself.

 

Now I could go in detail how simply the building itself was a cluster**** in terms of lack in space. Equally I could go on about in the last seven years, I have done condition surveys for about 350 to 400 buildings across the country in NHS trusts and continually spellbounds me how trusts, have either gave away land, allowed other hospital to literally mothball, worked it down so basically the repair bill is huge that it borders impossible to maintain. 

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13 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

And The US are fairing exceptionally well, aren't they? I think your graph proves my point very well, it doesn't matter how much you spend, people are dying anyway 

Eh? The US is a monster compared to us, their cases were always going to be out of control just because of their sheer population..... plus they also were led through a pandemic by a retired part time porn star who’s mental capacity is comparable to a spoon.... they were screwed before the virus even hit the big Apple. 

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54 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Yeah I despise Tories as much as anyone however the sheer entitlement of a lot of people to not see the seriousness of the situation is just as bad. The government were put in a difficult place because people wanted their christmas, they wanted to see their family and they didn't want a virus to stop them. Weak government, and this is the consequence. The media and their 'Christmas is cancelled' narrative was also appalling. Merkel was hard and decisive, people in Germany didn't mix at Christmas and their cases and deaths are declining. Pathetic, British arrogance, and now we're paying in lives. 

Hang on, correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see people putting the government in a difficult place by wanting a christmas, how would they do that. It was a case of being offered and accepting, which is all we can do.  Boris was the one who offered it!, in fact he promised 5 days but could only deliver 1. Nobody actually demanded they have a christmas, well no one i know anyway. 

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Just now, yorkie1999 said:

Hang on, correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see people putting the government in a difficult place by wanting a christmas, how would they do that. It was a case of being offered and accepting, which is all we can do.  Boris was the one who offered it!, in fact he promised 5 days but could only deliver 1. Nobody actually demanded they have a christmas, well no one i know anyway. 

Really??? I am lost for words. 

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