Coronavirus Thread

[Pliskin]

3 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Forget the police, think of the lawyers!

True, essentially everything in the public sector has current gone to rat shit, and a fair few areas of the private have too. May as well all stay at home and get pissed! 

[Nalis]

22 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Both record figures for the UK since the start of the pandemic

 

 

Silver lining on cases is that we'll probably be closer to herd immunity than we ever were in March 2020 when considering the vaccine uptake too.

[yorkie1999]

37 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

With all the funding in the world many people would still not survive this unfortunately. 

Maybe so, but the NHS would not be under the pressure it currently is.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

But just be sure to remember it was you hugging your gran that caused this, not the criminal underfunding of the health service for the last decade, or quashing the nurses bursary. It was you, you monster who had the audacity to hug your gran on Christmas day. 

 

56 minutes ago, Phube said:

 

To be fair both are valid!

 

37 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

With all the funding in the world many people would still not survive this unfortunately. 

It's happened because UK and the rest of Western Europe thought it was like the flu and that it could pass through their populations without massive numbers of deaths. Once that decision had been made the rest has been inevitable, no matter how much we lock down. 

[The whole world smiles]

16 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

As far as I know, people with Covid are not dying in the UK due to any lack of funding yet are they? 

No one dies of a lack of funding.

 

It won't be written on anybodys death certificate. 

 

But surely you can see the connection between the most excess deaths in Europe and a lack of hospital beds, intensive care beds, ppe, nurses, ventilators, etc etc. 

Edited 8 January 2021 by The whole world smiles

[FoxesDeb]

9 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

No one dies of a lack of funding.

 

It won't be written on anybodys death certificate. 

 

But surely you can see the connection between the most excess deaths in Europe and a lack of hospital beds, intensive care beds, ppe, nurses, ventilators, etc etc. 

Well not really, no. I see a correlation with people not following the advice, continuing to think they know better, and continuing to disbelieve what we are told. 

 

I also see what happened in Italy, where their health service was completely overwhelmed, and I don't think our Government were to blame for that? 

 

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

But just be sure to remember it was you hugging your gran that caused this, not the criminal underfunding of the health service for the last decade, or quashing the nurses bursary. It was you, you monster who had the audacity to hug your gran on Christmas day. 

Yeah

[foxile5]

North West Leicestershire police are refusing to clarify what constitutes local for me. 

 

[The whole world smiles]

3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Well not really, no. I see a correlation with people not following the advice, continuing to think they know better, and continuing to disbelieve what we are told. 

 

I also see what happened in Italy, where their health service was completely overwhelmed, and I don't think our Government were to blame for that? 

 

So just so I can understand your veiw point.

 

you think the government has handled the pandemic well and the health service has been funded adequately over the last 10 years and in a good place to deal with a major global pandemic? 

 

 

[foxile5]

Just now, foxile5 said:

North West Leicestershire police are refusing to clarify what constitutes local for me. 

 

This might seem spurious but I have to drive a bit if I want to run anywhere that isn't a busy bypass - which stinks and is patently unhealthy to breath in - I need to drive, really. 

[Corky]

This is a good one- Town Councillor who tested positive broke isolation and wandered the streets without a mask

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/lindasy-beech-swaffham-town-council-coronavirus-isolation-6891118

 

Even better, a brilliant excuse- "I thought I was allowed to exercise once a day when self-isolating"- which has never been the case. How can you misinterpret every message to stay at home WHEN YOU HAVE THE VIRUS.

 

At least she didn't go for a "picnic" with two cups of tea, though, in a quiet area. No, just around town with symptoms and no shield.

[Free Falling Foxes]

I guess I am in the minority re those two women - serves them bloody well right and will, hopefully, act as a deterrent to others.

I also hope the police start randomly going into shops and boarding buses and issuing fines to adults not wearing masks/shields too

Edited 8 January 2021 by Free Falling Foxes

[Pliskin]

19 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Well not really, no. I see a correlation with people not following the advice, continuing to think they know better, and continuing to disbelieve what we are told. 

 

I also see what happened in Italy, where their health service was completely overwhelmed, and I don't think our Government were to blame for that? 

 

I think you fail to see the bigger picture whether it’s in nativity or ignorance I don’t know, but our health service has been suffering for years, they’ve been overwhelmed for years because of the relentless cost cutting exercises carried out by the tories. The NHS are frankly pissing into the wind trying to tackle this virus, they’re having to suspend daily care for other sick patience to focus on this. 
 

The government did not take into account a potential for a national crises, they happen, they always happen and at the very least you want to ensure that your emergency services are able to cope if such an event happens, well it has and we can’t cope. One of the most important responsibilities of a government is to ensure its health services and national security are not compromised by their own doing, and no matter how hard someone tries to defend the tories they have been compromising the NHS for years, and now they’re paying the price for it. 

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

I swear some people think that if the tories weren't in power, we would all be dancing around together holding hands living with the virus in perfect harmony.

 

IMO non-compliance is the major cause of the deterioation, and most people don't watch the news briefings so they are pointless. In modern day popular culture it just isn't cool to listen to the droning on of some posh white bloke with power. A nationwide campaign should have been introduced early on every social media platform. A clear message reaching out to young people of all sections of society. Perhaps Ser Marcus of Rashford as the face would have been a good start and more people would have obeyed the restrictions. Just a thought.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

I think you fail to see the bigger picture whether it’s in nativity or ignorance I don’t know, but our health service has been suffering for years, they’ve been overwhelmed for years because of the relentless cost cutting exercises carried out by the tories. The NHS are frankly pissing into the wind trying to tackle this virus, they’re having to suspend daily care for other sick patience to focus on this. 
 

The government did not take into account a potential for a national crises, they happen, they always happen and at the very least you want to ensure that your emergency services are able to cope if such an event happens, well it has and we can’t cope. One of the most important responsibilities of a government is to ensure its health services and national security are not compromised by their own doing, and no matter how hard someone tries to defend the tories they have been compromising the NHS for years, and now WE'RE paying the price for it. 

 

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

I swear some people think that if the tories weren't in power, we would all be dancing around together holding hands living with the virus in perfect harmony.

 

IMO non-compliance is the major cause of the deterioation, and most people don't watch the news briefings so they are pointless. In modern day popular culture it just isn't cool to listen to the droning on of some posh white bloke with power. A nationwide campaign should have been introduced early on every social media platform. A clear message reaching out to young people of all sections of society. Perhaps Ser Marcus of Rashford as the face would have been a good start and more people would have obeyed the restrictions. Just a thought.

I don’t think anyone has denied that compliance is an issue, it is... we’re British when do we ever do what we’re told as a nation. 
 

The argument is A) how badly the tories have handled it.

B) how years of cost cutting exercises has left the emergency services unable to cope.

 

No one is saying any other party would do any better, what we want to see is the party in power be proactive and have a bit of foresight.... you can’t say “how could they see this coming” because that’s exactly why you have governments, not just to run the country, but to be able to have measures in place to be able to deal with national emergencies, they clearly didn’t have this kind of foresight and here we are, in the middle of a national crisis and we can’t deal with it. 
 

As I have previously stated, the governments job first and foremost is to lead, and they have absolutely failed to do so.

[WigstonWanderer]

7 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

I guess I am in the minority re those two women - serves them bloody well right and will, hopefully, act as a deterrent to others.

I also hope the police start randomly going into shops and boarding buses and issuing fines to adults not wearing masks/shields too

Yep, from the other side of the world it looks like too many people looking for loopholes & standing on the pettiest of “rights”, plus a government that couldn’t organise a pissup in a brewery. With records in hospitalisation and death being broken daily, surely just stay at home until the fcking virus has cooled off a bit! Donkeys lead by donkeys.

 

Sorry guys.

[Phube]

10 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

So just so I can understand your veiw point.

 

you think the government has handled the pandemic well and the health service has been funded adequately over the last 10 years and in a good place to deal with a major global pandemic? 

 

 

Can’t answer for anyone else but from my NHS frontline worker perspective; yes the NHS is criminally underfunded and the lack of beds, staff and ICU equipment is contributing to the excessive death toll...

 

But... the current infection rate has nothing to do with NHS underfunding but selfish/ignorant public wantonly ignoring advice either by not wearing mask due to some really good reason or thinking their bubble can include four grandparents, the next door neighbour and Trisha who has to pop in for a cuppa but only once a week. 
 

It’s amazing that I have worked every day  (less normal holidays) at a large NHS Trust with patients and had members of my team have COVID, go shopping every week, my wife works at a uni and have a daughter at high school - all three COVID hotspots. Not one of us has had it (to our knowledge and I get tested bi-weekly and had the anti-body test in the summer). I’m not saying everyone who has caught COVID is to blame but if EVERYONE actually obeyed the rules this pandemic would die out pretty fast! And we could all get back to normal!!

[The whole world smiles]

5 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

I swear some people think that if the tories weren't in power, we would all be dancing around together holding hands living with the virus in perfect harmony.

 

IMO non-compliance is the major cause of the deterioation, and most people don't watch the news briefings so they are pointless. In modern day popular culture it just isn't cool to listen to the droning on of some posh white bloke with power. A nationwide campaign should have been introduced early on every social media platform. A clear message reaching out to young people of all sections of society. Perhaps Ser Marcus of Rashford as the face would have been a good start and more people would have obeyed the restrictions. Just a thought.

Even if you want to ignore the state of the health service and the pms day to day decision making during the pandemic and focus solely on non compliance. 

 

Then that should also fall somewhat at this government's feet. the buy in to the first lockdown was pretty good. Its no where near as good this time round what's happened in the mean time? 

 

The government's no 1 aide blatantly broke lock down rules wasn't sacked and then the pm and minsters came out in defence of him saying things like "it's OK to use common sense" . It shouldn't but of course that had a massive effect on the publics compliance even if its sub consciencly. We were also told to eat out to help out, encougued back into work. Etc etc 

 

I do sympathise on a lot of levels with the government its an awful situation. but it has contiunouesly shat on itself and is clearly not up to the job. 

[FoxesDeb]

45 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

So just so I can understand your veiw point.

 

you think the government has handled the pandemic well and the health service has been funded adequately over the last 10 years and in a good place to deal with a major global pandemic? 

 

 

No I don't think I said anything remotely resembling that, if I did please show me where? 

 

What I did say, however, in response to your comment that more people would have survived Covid 19 if the NHS had all the funding in the world, is that I don't believe that to be true, and that any lack of funding has not directly contributed to deaths from Covid, and that Italy as an example has seen their health service overwhelmed, despite not being governed by our government. 

[Lionator]

22 minutes ago, Phube said:

Can’t answer for anyone else but from my NHS frontline worker perspective; yes the NHS is criminally underfunded and the lack of beds, staff and ICU equipment is contributing to the excessive death toll...

 

But... the current infection rate has nothing to do with NHS underfunding but selfish/ignorant public wantonly ignoring advice either by not wearing mask due to some really good reason or thinking their bubble can include four grandparents, the next door neighbour and Trisha who has to pop in for a cuppa but only once a week. 
 

It’s amazing that I have worked every day  (less normal holidays) at a large NHS Trust with patients and had members of my team have COVID, go shopping every week, my wife works at a uni and have a daughter at high school - all three COVID hotspots. Not one of us has had it (to our knowledge and I get tested bi-weekly and had the anti-body test in the summer). I’m not saying everyone who has caught COVID is to blame but if EVERYONE actually obeyed the rules this pandemic would die out pretty fast! And we could all get back to normal!!

Yeah I despise Tories as much as anyone however the sheer entitlement of a lot of people to not see the seriousness of the situation is just as bad. The government were put in a difficult place because people wanted their christmas, they wanted to see their family and they didn't want a virus to stop them. Weak government, and this is the consequence. The media and their 'Christmas is cancelled' narrative was also appalling. Merkel was hard and decisive, people in Germany didn't mix at Christmas and their cases and deaths are declining. Pathetic, British arrogance, and now we're paying in lives. 

[The whole world smiles]

7 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

No I don't think I said anything remotely resembling that, if I did please show me where? 

 

What I did say, however, in response to your comment that more people would have survived Covid 19 if the NHS had all the funding in the world, is that I don't believe that to be true, and that any lack of funding has not directly contributed to deaths from Covid, and that Italy as an example has seen their health service overwhelmed, despite not being governed by our government. 

I'm glad you've mentioned Italy. 

 

As of 2017 Italy was one of the few eu-15 countries to spend less on health per capita per head than us. 

 

So the fact that they have also had severe problems dealing with covid points that there is a relationship between healthcare spending (or lack of it) and covid deaths. 

[reynard]

2 hours ago, The Fox Covert said:

This is gross abuse of authority by the police and should be called out. Have the police not got better priorities than this?

When the lockdown was announced on Monday I also noticed the ambiguity of the little phrase 'local area'. Local area could mean 'parish', district council or county boundary or even something else. The well-paid civil servants who draw up this stuff really ought to be able to frame a regulation which is simple and unambiguous and if they don't some of our 650 MPs ought to be smart enough to sniff out inconsistencies and come up with something better. The regulations are actually the law and the law in England does not recognise the principle of 'not in the spirit'.

I have already written to my MP asking if he would get clarification from the government of which he is a member and will happily share his response in the public interest. 

I agree with this. As usual not enough thought as to detail. I wonder if they had run there as part of their excercise would they have stopped them? The definition of local is being interpreted one way by one force and another by another force. I'm fortunate enough to live in the country, not in a village. What is local to me? 1 mile, 2 miles, three? Frankly I've no idea. If I want to go for a run is a 10km round trip ok or do I need to stay within a 5km circuit? There is no public transport so driving is essential. The nearest supermarket is 8 miles in either direction would I be judged differently going one way from the other as both are covered by different forces.

 

Common sense ought to prevail but unfortunately at times neither the public nor the police seem able to apply it.

[boosmanana]

I genuinely despise being British sometimes. Why can the British public not just do as they’re asked/told? Why can’t our weak leadership not show a bit of backbone and ensure that the laws are followed? People in other countries across the globe might not like their leader/leaders and might have differing opinions, but they do as they’re told, and as a result are keeping the amount of people dying from the virus down and also ensuring that their lives can return to normal much earlier than ours. 
For some reason, unbeknown to me, the British public seem to have a sense of entitlement, a total disregard for any authority and an absolute willingness to do the opposite of what they’re asked to do. Bizarre and really really annoying.

[BKLFox]

Underfunding -- ---
The H&S sectors get over half of the entire Government budget & in order to pay Paul more, you need to rob Peter of Transport, Defence, Education, Public order & safety etc etc its a fine balancing act, take to much & we're having a conversation about the lack of funding for 1 of those sectors instead.

The NHS is 1 of the largest employers in the world with over 1m full time staff which amounts to around 45% of the Health budget, out of the remaining you then need to fund everything else that runs the show.

 

In my eyes its not so much the lack of funding from the Government, as i say the majority of the wedge goes on H&S, its the perception of the NHS gravy train where private & public (Serco) firms charge extortionate consultancy fees, it's these and all the other leeches inflating service costs which drains the budget, you could throw all you want into the budget but they will just up the service charges, this is where change needs to happen first.

Edited 8 January 2021 by BKLFox