Coronavirus Thread

[Ric Flair]

19 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Despite all our efforts we have the highest covid rates in Europe, absolutely crazy considering we have lived under some kind of restrictions for 15 months.

We also test way more than most and we have been an absolute disgrace at restricting travel and enforcing quarantine until recently.

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Despite all our efforts we have the highest covid rates in Europe, absolutely crazy considering we have lived under some kind of restrictions for 15 months.

Hasn't most of Europe been under restrictions too, though, for the same sort of period of time? We still have restrictions here and our rates are higher then the UK I think? I think our restrictions are far harsher than there too

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Plenty. Especially in Italy.

 

People getting close and aggressive isn't a problem. If you've experienced a lot of that, perhaps you're in the wrong lane too often?

 

Traffic flows much more freely.

It’s decades since I last drove in Italy, but I remember having the distinct impression that the “rules of the road” were more like guidelines. A red light seemed to mean “give way” rather than stop.

[Col city fan]

I don’t argue with @Babylon

Rates ARE bloody rising again and if this is the case in June, IF more people aren’t vaccinated it’ll be a whole lot worse again come the autumn

I just despair for those people who because of Covid sit on waiting lists of over a year, just to be seen about problems which could get a whole lot worse if they aren’t nipped in the bud.

Early detection is key to most conditions being treatable and if Covid again results in such detection not being made, there’s gonna be a whole lot more deaths due to ‘other reasons’

Not good 

[bovril]

4 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Plenty. Especially in Italy.

 

People getting close and aggressive isn't a problem. If you've experienced a lot of that, perhaps you're in the wrong lane too often?

 

Traffic flows much more freely.

I've driven and been driven a lot in Eastern Europe and getting home safely was a relief. There were maybe two or three times I thought I was going to die. I have experience of Italy too which is significantly better but still insane. 

 

Edited 17 June 2021 by bovril

[Nod.E]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

I've driven and been driven a lot in Eastern Europe and getting home safely was a relief. There were maybe two or three times I thought I was going to die. I have experience of Italy too which is significantly better but still insane. 

 

So we're overly cautious? Ring any bells?

[Guest Harrydc]

Forcing care home staff to have the jab or they lose their job is one slippery slope. 

 

They will have a field day in court. 

[SpacedX]

30 minutes ago, bovril said:

I've driven and been driven a lot in Eastern Europe and getting home safely was a relief. There were maybe two or three times I thought I was going to die. I have experience of Italy too which is significantly better but still insane. 

 

The two worst Cities that I've driven in were Palermo and Marrakesh - Worldwide the worst driving/road users I've witnessed was in Saigon. 

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

Forcing care home staff to have the jab or they lose their job is one slippery slope. 

 

They will have a field day in court. 

There's no "slippery slope" about it.  It's well established that in certain jobs (especially in the nursing profession) there are some injections that you must have to do certain jobs.  That's the principle.  Whether or not that principle should be extended to this case, that's just a matter of establishing the costs and benefits to the staff and patients/customers.

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

I've driven and been driven a lot in Eastern Europe and getting home safely was a relief. There were maybe two or three times I thought I was going to die. I have experience of Italy too which is significantly better but still insane. 

 

Is it really the case that all 27 worst countires in Europe are in the EU, and all countires outside the EU have a better record?  Or is the graph misleading?

[Guest Harrydc]

9 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

There's no "slippery slope" about it.  It's well established that in certain jobs (especially in the nursing profession) there are some injections that you must have to do certain jobs.  That's the principle.  Whether or not that principle should be extended to this case, that's just a matter of establishing the costs and benefits to the staff and patients/customers.

How you can force anyone to have this is beyond me. Absolutely disgusting. 

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/husband-died-covid-jab-vaccine-mandatory-care-workers/

[Col city fan]

3 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

How you can force anyone to have this is beyond me. Absolutely disgusting. 

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/husband-died-covid-jab-vaccine-mandatory-care-workers/

Of course you can’t physically force anyone to have a vaccine. It’ll be the implications of not having it eg. Staff being sacked from nursing homes, res homes etc if they continue to decline it

It’s hugely big brother ish... and I don’t think it’ll be enforceable legally 

 

[dsr-burnley]

3 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

How you can force anyone to have this is beyond me. Absolutely disgusting. 

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/husband-died-covid-jab-vaccine-mandatory-care-workers/

How many people in care homes have died because of coronavirus?  No-one (apart from you) is saying that people should be forced into having the jab.  What some people are saying is that the elderly and vulnerable need maximum protection and it is not safe for unvaccinated people to look after them.

 

If you want to get emotional about a single death, it would be easy enough to find someone in a care home who has died of coronavirus after being infected by someone who wasn't vaccinated.  Would that make it a draw?  Is the winner, the one who counts the more bodies?  

 

The perfect solution is to abolish coronavirus so that no-one needs the jab.  That solution isn't available.  So the best solution is the one that saves most lives at least overall cost, and if that solution means that unvaccinated people can't care for the vulnerable, so be it.  (I don't know if that is the best solution, but it may be.)

[dsr-burnley]

3 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Of course you can’t physically force anyone to have a vaccine. It’ll be the implications of not having it eg. Staff being sacked from nursing homes, res homes etc if they continue to decline it

It’s hugely big brother ish... and I don’t think it’ll be enforceable legally 

 

This is the problem.  If it isn't enforceable legally to ensure that staff have the vaccine, then it will also be unenforceable for patients/residents to request that they go to a home where all staff are vaccinated.

[Kopfkino]

39 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Is it really the case that all 27 worst countires in Europe are in the EU, and all countires outside the EU have a better record?  Or is the graph misleading?

No it’s just that, for some reason and increasingly so, Europe has become a synonym for the EU and Europe outside of the EU doesn’t exist

[doverfox]

35 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

This is the problem.  If it isn't enforceable legally to ensure that staff have the vaccine, then it will also be unenforceable for patients/residents to request that they go to a home where all staff are vaccinated.

Employer’s liability: It is compulsory to have employer’s liability insurance in all but exceptional circumstances. The Employers’ Liability (Compulsory Insurance) Act 1969 requires employers to have at least £5 million of cover (more depending on the business activity). Most insurance companies provide £10 million of employers’ liability as standard.

Employer’s liability insurance is compulsory because employers are responsible for the health and safety of their employees whilst at work. If an accident occurs and an employee is injured or made ill in consequence of work related activities, they will have a claim for compensation against their employer.

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

I've driven and been driven a lot in Eastern Europe and getting home safely was a relief. There were maybe two or three times I thought I was going to die. I have experience of Italy too which is significantly better but still insane. 

 

It would be interesting to know if this graph represented those declared dead at the scene or those that died later from their injuries. I suspect that on scene treatment is haphazard in many Eastern European countries and that the UK and many Western Europe countries have a very high standard of care on scene. Air Ambulance, rapid response cars, highly trained and experienced response medics. Just speaking from personal experience.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

7 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Despite all our efforts we have the highest covid rates in Europe, absolutely crazy considering we have lived under some kind of restrictions for 15 months.

It's no badge of honour obviously but Italy and Russia likely to overtake us within a week or two. Not sure what their restrictions have been like.

We're about 13th in Europe for deaths per million.

(Goes without saying all the deaths are awful, it's not a competition etc)

[Otis]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

How many people in care homes have died because of coronavirus?  No-one (apart from you) is saying that people should be forced into having the jab.  What some people are saying is that the elderly and vulnerable need maximum protection and it is not safe for unvaccinated people to look after them.

 

The elderly & vunerable have had the vaccine.

 

Where does this stop, do the delivery drivers & other visiters to the care home need the vaccine?

[Guest Harrydc]

1 minute ago, Otis said:

The elderly & vunerable have had the vaccine.

 

Where does this stop, do the delivery drivers & other visiters to the care home need the vaccine?

This is my point. 

 

Why is it that we don't threaten care home workers to get the flu jab? Because the residents have already had it. 

 

This is beyond ridiculous. 

[Otis]

1 minute ago, Harrydc said:

This is my point. 

 

Why is it that we don't threaten care home workers to get the flu jab? Because the residents have already had it. 

 

This is beyond ridiculous. 

It's a belt & braces approach, not sure if it's really needed.

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

2.1 million over 50s yet to have a single vaccine dose.

Christ that’s a whole lot of stupid,

 

[st albans fox]

not seen much data ref ‘vaccine suspected deaths’ since we changed to mRNA for the under forties. 

 

[st albans fox]

4 hours ago, Harrydc said:

Forcing care home staff to have the jab or they lose their job is one slippery slope. 

 

They will have a field day in court. 

Only if you’re the judge Harry !

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

This is my point. 

 

Why is it that we don't threaten care home workers to get the flu jab? Because the residents have already had it. 

 

This is beyond ridiculous. 

I suspect it's because flu is less dangerous than coronavirus.  Like I said, I don't know if this action in practice would be the correct or proportionate thing to do.  But there is nothing wrong with it in principle, any more than there is anything wrong with insisting that certain nurses must have a hepatitis B jab.