Transfer funds and KP

[Guest ttfn]

15 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but king power haven't put anything into the club for a while? 

 

This is true but all the more reason we won’t have any cash to spend this summer.
 

Even the most self sufficient clubs are struggling to raise money to spend, its only the likes of Chelsea spending money this summer. 

 

 

[Simoken]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

We can all speculate but none of us know. Seems a bit of a pointless discussion. 

actually.. you could find out with a bit of digging, its public record that all registered corporations by law have to release a financial report every quarter and year for auditing.

[RoboFox]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We can all speculate but none of us know. Seems a bit of a pointless discussion. 

To be fair, Webs, this is the entire foundation of the forum. We all just talk nonsense out of our arses. Without it, there wouldn't be FT.

[Dahnsouff]

Not sure why people think we have no money 

Is it just because we haven't bought anyone yet?

If so, this is the norm not the outlier, there is still over 5 weeks of the window left.

[Webbo]

Just now, Simoken said:

actually.. you could find out with a bit of digging, its public record that all registered corporations by law have to release a financial report every quarter and year for auditing.

That  tells us what has happened financially, not what will happen. 

[Simoken]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

That  tells us what has happened financially, not what will happen. 

It gives a good indication on where the club is heading financially.

Edited 28 August 2020 by Simoken

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, RoboFox said:

To be fair, Webs, this is the entire foundation of the forum. We all just talk nonsense out of our arses. Without it, there wouldn't be FT.

I know, it's just the wittering and panic's getting on my nerves. I think I need another break from the forum. 

[goose2010]

10 minutes ago, ttfn said:

This is true but all the more reason we won’t have any cash to spend this summer.
 

Even the most self sufficient clubs are struggling to raise money to spend, its only the likes of Chelsea spending money this summer. 

 

 

 

and to be fair with Chelsea they did sell Hazard for 100m+ and Morata for 50m+ 

 

As I have said numerous times all Premier clubs are businesses and are managed like a business its gone of the days when QPR / Portsmouth just blew ridiculous money to try and stay amongst the big boys. 

 

Much rather us have a sustainable future than not. 

[Fox92]

Businessmen, especially billionaires, aren't gonna just have one pot of money.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

The season ticket money has already been spent and now we're broke again

[CosbehFox]

26 minutes ago, Simoken said:

actually.. you could find out with a bit of digging, its public record that all registered corporations by law have to release a financial report every quarter and year for auditing.

Some of the opinions in this thread on based on that. 

 

The only recent commitment by King Power into directly funding the club is a 6 year loan for the training ground. 

 

It's clear the 'liquid' cash to us is short right now. That doesn't mean any financial disaster is awaiting. Just we have to wheel and deal to make it work. 

[Dahnsouff]

So reading through Companies House 2018/2019 shows that

• Our turnover was 178m, up from  158m in 2018
• Player sales generated 58m, up from 38m in 2018)
• Wages as a percentage of turnover was 83.9, up from 74.9
• Cost of Sales was 235m, up from 178m
  • It is my rubbish understanding that these figures represent ALL costs to play a full season, so all staff, stadium maintenance, etc,etc
    • Does anyone know if my rubbish understanding is even slightly accurrate?

Seems that the forecast predicts a 20% uplift year on year with regards to turnover

 

So turnover + sales needs to cover Cost of Sales I assume? Or rather the difference is profit/loss.

(But we made a 20m loss in 2019...)

 

[Pliskin]

47 minutes ago, ttfn said:

This is true but all the more reason we won’t have any cash to spend this summer.
 

Even the most self sufficient clubs are struggling to raise money to spend, its only the likes of Chelsea spending money this summer. 

 

 

Chelsea are spending money like this due to Man City. There’s no way their current spending will fall in line with financial fair play, which is probably why they’re just doing what they want.

[Guest ttfn]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So reading through Companies House 2018/2019 shows that

• Our turnover was 178m, up from  158m in 2018
• Player sales generated 58m, up from 38m in 2018)
• Wages as a percentage of turnover was 83.9, up from 74.9
• Cost of Sales was 235m, up from 178m
  • It is my rubbish understanding that these figures represent ALL costs to play a full season, so all staff, stadium maintenance, etc,etc
    • Does anyone know if my rubbish understanding is even slightly accurrate?

Seems that the forecast predicts a 20% uplift year on year with regards to turnover

 

So turnover + sales needs to cover Cost of Sales I assume? Or rather the difference is profit/loss.

(But we made a 20m loss in 2019...)

 

Pretty much. Interest and tax aren’t included in that, plus the accounting profit is not the same as how much cash is coming in/out which I suspect is the biggest issue here.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if we made a huge profit last season but that doesn’t mean we had/have a huge amount of cash burning a hole in our pockets.

[MrSpaM]

How much of the Mahrez and Maguire money have we actually spent on players? seems like barely any of it so far

[Pliskin]

26 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Businessmen, especially billionaires, aren't gonna just have one pot of money.

Very true, you wouldn’t get to such a level without various pots. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, ttfn said:

Pretty much. Interest and tax aren’t included in that, plus the accounting profit is not the same as how much cash is coming in/out which I suspect is the biggest issue here.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if we made a huge profit last season but that doesn’t mean we had/have a huge amount of cash burning a hole in our pockets.

Thanks for responding, as someone who works in IT, this stuff is crazy too me.

 

Your last sentence is curious. So if we are both self sufficient and made a profit, why wouldn't we have money to spend?

 

By the way, I am calm with the window, it will all happen later if it happens at all I think.

[Guest ttfn]

 

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

Very true, you wouldn’t get to such a level without various pots. 

Right, but whilst tourism has absolutely tanked, there’s not a lot of parts of the world economy that are thriving. Having a diverse portfolio of assets insulates you from losing everything, it doesn’t insulate you from huge losses. 
 

Whichever way you look at it, King Power will likely have less to spend than before. If it was just the football club suffering they could step in and support it in the short term, my suspicion is that with everything else going on they have other priorities. 

[Guest ttfn]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Thanks for responding, as someone who works in IT, this stuff is crazy too me.

 

Your last sentence is curious. So if we are both self sufficient and made a profit, why wouldn't we have money to spend?

 

By the way, I am calm with the window, it will all happen later if it happens at all I think.

Well in its simplest terms if we used the Maguire money to effectively pay for the training ground weve booked a huge profit on Maguire (I’d guess £70m+ in accounting terms) but spent the actual cash on something which is an asset which sits on our balance sheet.

 

So were up £70m in accounting terms but net nil on cash in that very basic scenario.

 

In reality its more complicated than that and depends on things like how long was left on the contracts of players we sold and how long the contracts are of players we buy.

[TrentFox]

1 hour ago, richardsfoxes said:

How can we have no money...

Maybe KP are married to my ex wife? 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Well in its simplest terms if we used the Maguire money to effectively pay for the training ground weve booked a huge profit on Maguire (I’d guess £70m+ in accounting terms) but spent the actual cash on something which is an asset which sits on our balance sheet.

 

So were up £70m in accounting terms but net nil on cash in that very basic scenario.

 

In reality its more complicated than that and depends on things like how long was left on the contracts of players we sold and how long the contracts are of players we buy.

So confusing, so these loans we take from Maquarrrie (sp??) are for recognising transfer fees earlier (rather than recognising the received fee over its payment term) and bear no relation to training ground or hoped for ground expansion? Or we just have more of their loans for that too, and paying that back takes some of the received transfer fees?  

 

Promise not to ask further questions 

[majaco]

People who haven't read previous threads start new threads

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, ttfn said:

 

Right, but whilst tourism has absolutely tanked, there’s not a lot of parts of the world economy that are thriving. Having a diverse portfolio of assets insulates you from losing everything, it doesn’t insulate you from huge losses. 
 

Whichever way you look at it, King Power will likely have less to spend than before. If it was just the football club suffering they could step in and support it in the short term, my suspicion is that with everything else going on they have other priorities. 

Naturally. A lot of business's have had their arses kicked and as football club owners come from such diverse backgrounds it will have a huge impact on the sport. Like you say football clubs wont be a primary business for any owners, and even if turnover's have been good, no one can predict what the forecast will be for business's over the next few years. Those clubs effected will just have to take it on a season by season basis. 

[Guest ttfn]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So confusing, so these loans we take from Maquarrrie (sp??) are for recognising transfer fees earlier (rather than recognising the received fee over its payment term) and bear no relation to training ground or hoped for ground expansion? Or we just have more of their loans for that too, and paying that back takes some of the received transfer fees?  

 

Promise not to ask further questions 

No, ignore the loans for a minute, I was just trying to simply explain profit v cash!

 

Ultimately it’s all one pot of money, the loans just give us access to the cash sooner so we can build the training ground.

[Bluearmyfox28]

I still have faith. I believe there is money, we just won’t have our pants down. For years we’ve said let’s be smart, if they wanna have our pants down then we will go onto the next one. 
 

Now we are seeing Man City looking at Messi, Chelsea spending what they are and all of a sudden we are panicking. 
 

Lets be patient we could still spend close to £100m on new lads. Let’s just wait until the end of the window, then we have these discussions & rightly so too.