Electric cars

[tom27111]

9 minutes ago, Milo said:

Yeah, more the former than the latter, tbh.

 

Although the I-Pace was disappointingly small when I went to have a look at one. Lexus have one coming out and the Volvo XC40 looks like it could fit the bill...but I haven't seen any and the delivery time is about 6 months.   

From my experience with Lexus, I'd steer very clear of them!

 

Had a few of their hybrids in stock before. The normal battery on them is an absolute nightmare. They have a habit of being flat quite often and despite having a manual key as back-up, it's almost impossible to get in to the car.

[Free Falling Foxes]

Walked around the back of a car the other day and then it started reversing. I banged on the back to let him know I was there.

He hadn't looked and I didnt hear it.

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that safety campaigners have concerns because of their relative silence.

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

49 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Rather than build HS2 we should be replacing roads with those new ERS ones which have built in electric wireless charging like they've started to do in Japan, Korea, Sweden etc. Genius idea.

Had no idea this was a thing, fascinating.

 

Our infrastructure is so far behind other countries, our internet services, our railways, our electricity systems, our roads, the whole lot.

[Izzy]

21 minutes ago, Milo said:

Although the I-Pace was disappointingly small when I went to have a look at one. 

Whatever you choose will be a come down compared to your Range Rover mate 

[Milo]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Whatever you choose will be a come down compared to your Range Rover mate 

Shhhh! 

 

I am kind of conscious about running around in a big dirty 3 litre diesel in this day and age...But I'm not quite ready for a Nissan Leaf just yet.

 

(I am looking for an electric car that is big enough that I can chuck a set of clubs in the back of, and basically tells people to get the fvck out of my way when I'm out and about, like the Rangy does)! 

[peach0000]

34 minutes ago, Milo said:

Yeah, more the former than the latter, tbh.

 

Although the I-Pace was disappointingly small when I went to have a look at one. Lexus have one coming out and the Volvo XC40 looks like it could fit the bill...but I haven't seen any and the delivery time is about 6 months.   

At that end of the market I personally think the electric car offering is actually rather good. If you have a way of charging them (driveway) I see very little draw backs to something like an I-pace or a Model X. When I was looking at them I decided not to consider any but the Tesla (X and 3, heart over head kind of decision) and the I-Pace purely due to the superior range they were offering. I do agree they can be on the small side compared to the equivalent non electric models. 

 

If the range is not important and you purely just want comfort the Mercedes are excellent inside!

[Bellend Sebastian]

24 minutes ago, Milo said:

Shhhh! 

 

I am kind of conscious about running around in a big dirty 3 litre diesel in this day and age...But I'm not quite ready for a Nissan Leaf just yet.

 

(I am looking for an electric car that is big enough that I can chuck a set of clubs in the back of, and basically tells people to get the fvck out of my way when I'm out and about, like the Rangy does)! 

Kia e-Nero is supposedly very good

[yorkie1999]

I'd go for the Lotus Evija or the Nio ep9, if your budget will stretch. Both around 2000 bhp

[MPH]

2 hours ago, tom27111 said:

There is no way on earth, that within a decade, all new cars will be fully electric.

 

I've said it on the car thread before, the infrastructure isn't there yet and the technology in the batteries still need massive advances. 

 

Things like that can't be rushed.

 

It'll lead to a boom in the used car market for petrol and diesel and have a detrimental effect on what is trying to be achieved. 

 

If anyone is thinking of going fully electric, don't buy it, lease it. You'll regret being stuck with an expensive car that doesn't work because the battery is knackered.

 

And don't look at anything that retails under 50k

 

Edit...If you do buy one, check all the small print in your warranty. I can almost guarantee that the battery won't be covered. Warranty companies are no mugs, they know the batteries aren't very good and won't pay 4k for you to have a new one.

 

If you look how far we have come in the last 10 years, there’s no reason to doubt that we we can keep the same trajectory. Also, the technology is all there for electronic cars now, some tweaking for sure but expect a massive shift in design engineering and funding to go towards battery development.

 

I think also there will need to be a shift from the mentality that we need to charge  the cars at home...Also all it takes is one or two massive petrol station brands to  have a fast charging port.. or even places like tescos or Asda to have ‘ charge whilst you shop’ parking spaces  and the accessibility and concerns over having enough ‘ juice’ can be overcome very easily. 

 

[Milo]

23 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Kia e-Nero is supposedly very good

Odd you should say that.

 

I actually went to have a look at one last week - it was pretty good and a new one was about £20k less than a second hand I-Pace...but I just couldn't see myself being happy with it.

 

(My current car actually makes me smile when climb in and I drive it - I think that's what I am looking to replicate)

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

Shhhh! 

 

I am kind of conscious about running around in a big dirty 3 litre diesel in this day and age...But I'm not quite ready for a Nissan Leaf just yet.

 

(I am looking for an electric car that is big enough that I can chuck a set of clubs in the back of, and basically tells people to get the fvck out of my way when I'm out and about, like the Rangy does)! 

No need to feel guilty.  Unless you are doing a ton of miles the lowest environmental impact you can have is to keep driving your Range.  I am going to take my Disco 4 to Australia where they don't mind them so much   Could never go back to a normal car now.

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

They are massively simpler than a standard car, with thousands fewer parts to wear out.

On the other hand, I've been driving 30 years in second-hand cars and never been stranded beyond the capacity of the AA to get the car started again.  And the total cost of all the cars I have ever bought is about £20k, which is a long way short of buying just one electric one; the fuel saving wouldn't make up for that difference.

 

See how the technology develops.  As yet, especially when taking into account my terraced house and no off street parking, it's not a serious option.

[stix]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

Odd you should say that.

 

I actually went to have a look at one last week - it was pretty good and a new one was about £20k less than a second hand I-Pace...but I just couldn't see myself being happy with it.

 

(My current car actually makes me smile when climb in and I drive it - I think that's what I am looking to replicate)

Porsche Taycan?

[Stadt]

Government's and councils aren't arsed about charging infrastructure yet, They currently offer grants to get them done for domestic use (which I can see being pulled over the coming years) but there's no policy push to get things installed in the public sphere.

 

There's plenty of issues regarding battery life cycles, rare earth material dependence, fuel duty hole in the treasury's finances and supply issues on the national grid that will have to be worked out.  

 

However, they're something like 72% cheaper per mile than conventional cars.

 

An Israeli EV component manufacturer are setting up near Hinckley in a few years as well, that was announced this week.

[Milo]

9 minutes ago, stix said:

Porsche Taycan?

Only if you pay half!   

[Bellend Sebastian]

Not that much was made of this at the time, but this could supposedly have significant implications for policy.  A court decided that this poor girl died as a result of poor air quality. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-55330945

 

If you're the local authority for an area where the air quality - which through traffic management etc you will be at least partly responsible for, now this precedent has been set, I imagine a few Chief Execs are worried now about their councils being sued by folk with breathing problems who live in the affected areas.

 

This was becoming an issue before COVID, with loads of data coming out over the last couple of years about just how bad the health implications of poor air quality (which is down largely to particles resulting from diesel vehicles and wood burners) actually are. Loads of local authorities were looking at clean air zones and so forth (what these actually involve I must admit I have no idea).

 

If there are measures taken to curb the use of diesel vehicles in cities at least, in the near future, this will be the least surprising thing ever. Especially if people, as they seem to be doing in increasing numbers, sit in their parked cars with their engines running, one of the more mystifying developments in human behaviour

[tom27111]

I like the fact that they're slowly becoming to look like 'normal cars'. 

 

Some of them are absolutely hideous to look at, I mentioned the Leaf and the Soul earlier.

 

But I've never understood why they design them to look so bad?

 

The BMW i3 is another one, what an ugly looking car. If you've never seen the interior to one, consider yourself lucky. The oak effect dash makes it look like you're sitting in a cheap IKEA inspired dining room and the door linings are made out of some weird fibreboard type material.

 

That rant was probably more appropriate for 'What grinds your gears' 

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

I like the fact that they're slowly becoming to look like 'normal cars'. 

 

Some of them are absolutely hideous to look at, I mentioned the Leaf and the Soul earlier.

 

But I've never understood why they design them to look so bad?

 

The BMW i3 is another one, what an ugly looking car. If you've never seen the interior to one, consider yourself lucky. The oak effect dash makes it look like you're sitting in a cheap IKEA inspired dining room and the door linings are made out of some weird fibreboard type material.

 

That rant was probably more appropriate for 'What grinds your gears' 

Only car i've ever seen that has a tweed interior! What i do find ugly though, is because they don't need a radiator, they make the front look like a boat. The look of a car's front end is what makes a car, either mean and sporty or happy and friendly., some cars look like they're frowning and others look like they're smiling, but to just replace the grill with a flat panel just removes any expression from the car.

[Alan Frost]

4 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

Very interesting news that Jaguar are making electric cars only from 2025. And then there's the news of a new gigafactory for electric car batteries for which a site near Cov airport has been earmarked. The future of electric cars is super exciting and I can only hope that the more prevalent they become, the cheaper that basic new models become too.

 

My 1.4 L petrol motor is 16 years old now so it's inevitable I'll be in the market for a car sooner rather than later. If I could afford a new lecky one, I'd buy one tomorrow in truth. But, like above, I'd prefer a Tesla/Jag than a Nissan/Renault.

 

I do wonder about the second-hand electric car market, though. After repeated charging, batteries are inevitably going to degrade, which would reduce the range, so would it ever be worth buying a second-hand one and shelling out for a brand spanking new main battery?

 

Maybe hire purchase is just going to become even more prevalent, or perhaps there will be an explosion of pay-as-you-go car hire a bit like the Boris bikes.

Not a subject i know a lot about ,despite being trained as a professional electrical engineer, i spent most of my career in tachnical sales and marketing so the engineering got rusty. A few useful bits i've read .not in technical mags,  are that Prius batteries are very often good for 150.000 miles .But like standard car batteries you need to be lucky,probably. It might mean the battery insurance is cheap,if an actuary has studied it ,I 've no idea who's batteries Toyota use but they are usually fussy. For standard car batteries ,life times apparently vary from probably just over the guarantee period (typically 3 =5years) up to 10-20 years if you're lucky.The best auto engineer I know local to me (he's really good imo) has just completed a lengthy course in repairing and maintaining electric cars for the future good of his business . He thinks I should get an electric car next but I'm 77 so I doubt he's building 100 years into that advice , although he's aware I don't rate car troubles.( had a co. car most of my working life, occasionally two-I was married- when they were issued annually ,pretty well totally free of all running expenses,including fuel . We had to knock say £5-20 a month off our expenses for personal miieage.Most did n't bother.) The only reason I know the auto engineer is I had a mystery battery fault on my Skoda Superbe ( really a VW Passat in disguise) I could n't even envisage. He found it and cured it more or less free. I needed a new battery which was out of guarantee but he got me one free in exchange for telling them what the fault was. (told you he was good.) It was a very rare fault he'd never seen before on any make of car. The parasite battery which powers the burglar alarm (which normally lives an unstressed ideal life of luxury ,and isn't even shown on the wiring diagrams, (altho it should be) had failed in an unusal way, 

 

Were I again a young and single engineer with the machines and knowledge I have now ,and a spare five-ten  years  my only car I would have owned  in my lifetime would have been an electric/steam car with a Doble steam engine. hardly any battery capacity needed, no gearbox, maybe two tons , (heavy body work) and would out accelerate petrol sports cars , silently .Not that cheap as I'd have needed  a chassis ,preferably ally, but 2nd hand Land Rover  at a push, with  custom luxury bodywork (as with most Dobles) and I'd probably have recuatomised the ally/plastic bodywork once my kids had left home, All very expensive , all incredibly cheap amortised over say 65 years.since 1965 say.  A Doble boiler could these days be made to run on any untaxed hydrocarbon fuel , say cooking paraffin . Dobles had been around since about 1920 ish but i was n't rich enough ,never had the development time, would have been lengthy,and did n't know about Dobles back in about 1963. You can buy with a liile difficulty the Doble drwings . Best ad. I know for Dobles is that back in the 1940s .? Howard Hughes who was very wealthy from birth (his dad invented and made the oil drilling bit- They are large ,complicated and very expensive. I imagine he had a monopoly)  became infatuated I think with Ava Gardner. He decided to sell all he owned and move to Hollywood and buy a film studio (Paramount I think,not sure )and make a film "the Outlaw" starring Gardner. I think he even invented a brassiere to show off her finest points. A lot of this became fictionalised in the best selling paper back "The Carpet Baggers" You could n't make it up. When he sold everything he kept only his customised Doble which weighed about 2 tons and did 130MPH quite fast for the times.

[Parafox]

5 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

What if you live in a terrace house, or don't have a drive, you can't just run an extension cable across a path.

 There's so many unanswered questions and so little time to implement infrastructure changes in this country that i can see it just being one great big balls up.  

The Gov think everyone lives in a detached house with their own drive or on a private estate.

[Mike Oxlong]

7 hours ago, Milo said:

I'm seriously considering biting the bullet and going full electric - there seems to be a big surge of decent cars coming along this year.

 

So - does anyone own one, is anyone thinking of buying one?

 

Owners, are you glad you did and what are the things you wish you'd looked for or done differently? Apart from range, what are the main downsides of owning one?

 

 

You can currently offset the whole cost against profit as a self employed person so if you have profits of 100k and buy a car for 60k you’ll only be paying basic rate tax in that year 

 

Can’t think that the government will keep that open for much longer given the increasing uptake on EVs 

[Milo]

16 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

You can currently offset the whole cost against profit as a self employed person so if you have profits of 100k and buy a car for 60k you’ll only be paying basic rate tax in that year 

 

Can’t think that the government will keep that open for much longer given the increasing uptake on EVs 

This is also one of the reasons that I'm thinking of changing over. 

It's never been worth it previously for me to put a car through the company, due to the BIK implications - but they are currently at zero percent, rising to 1, 2% over the next few years.

 

I can't yet get an answer out of my accountant regarding the payment of the vehicle regarding VAT and BIK - I'm not sure if reclaiming the VAT is only if you pay outright, or if it still applies if I buy second hand or on finance.  

[Mike Oxlong]

2 hours ago, Milo said:

This is also one of the reasons that I'm thinking of changing over. 

It's never been worth it previously for me to put a car through the company, due to the BIK implications - but they are currently at zero percent, rising to 1, 2% over the next few years.

 

I can't yet get an answer out of my accountant regarding the payment of the vehicle regarding VAT and BIK - I'm not sure if reclaiming the VAT is only if you pay outright, or if it still applies if I buy second hand or on finance.  

I’m no accountant but google is our friend. VAT section in the below link - you can probably find more with a little research 

 

https://www.togetheraccounting.co.uk/electric-car-tax-relief/

 

I’d be surprised if the tax advantage applies to second hand vehicles as the incentive is designed to get more new EVs on the road but that’s just my hunch 

 

Edit - forgot the link 

 

 

Edited 19 February 2021 by Mike Oxlong

[Ian Nacho]

I’m by no means an expert but if I was going to get an electric car at this moment in time I’d just get a decent lease deal. In my mind I’m just not convinced on the whole money saving argument. The battery isn’t going to last forever and I’m imagining a new battery won’t be cheap. I’m also skeptical of the whole green argument too because what happens to those batteries once they’re finished with?

 

 

[yorkie1999]

44 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

I’m by no means an expert but if I was going to get an electric car at this moment in time I’d just get a decent lease deal. In my mind I’m just not convinced on the whole money saving argument. The battery isn’t going to last forever and I’m imagining a new battery won’t be cheap. I’m also skeptical of the whole green argument too because what happens to those batteries once they’re finished with?

 

 

I think that some manufacturers let  you lease the batteries from them.