Patson Daka

[Buzzell]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

No, you put him in a three up front with Ndidi, Tielemans and Soumare behind them. Can't think of many defences relishing the problems those three could cause them. With Ricardo having the odd burst down the right there's plenty for the opposition to think about before daring to try and flood a competent  midfield in order to get at a tippy tappy side to side defence and overwhelmed 2 in midfield option.

 

Occasion balls down the channels or over the top could create variety and chaos instead of a slavish persistence for a poor form of an antiquated build up from the back possession style of football that arguably we haven't got the players to fulfil anyway.

 

Surely it's about a winning style for the players currently at your disposal rather than a style for the mere sake of it?

Problem is you can’t just chuck Nacho, Vardy and Daka together. That leaves no creativity on the wings. Barnes and Lookman all day out wide. 
 

Brendan has a headache with who he starts up top between Nacho and Vardy with Daka looking like the long term Vardy replacement once the legend calls it a day.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, moore_94 said:

Which of Vardy and Daka do you completely neutralise by putting as the wide forward though? You will struggle if you have them both playing through the middle as they are similar players in terms of the positions they will try take up on the pitch and the type of player they are so they will just get in each others way, and neither have performed regularly or done well as a wide player either, it isn't just a matter of throw all 3 on the pitch and let them play how they want, it doesn't work like that

A front three doesn't mean that you're in anyway playing with wingers first and foremost. Think Liverpool with Sane, Firmino and Salah for example and other teams who have employed the formation in other ways like Real Madrid.

 

Wasn't Iheanacho our top scorer last season with Vardy as his main provider from a wider left forward position, we know he's good at it whilst being an ever present threat himself. Isn't Daka a good forward coming in from the right too?

 

The three man midfield not only gives both protection to the currently  overburdened defence, but also cover for whoever from right and left back positions wants to push forward adding width, also like Robertson and Trent- Arnold from Liverpool. I see no reason whatsoever why all three of our very competent forwards would feel the need to all rush down the middle together at the same time?

 

Barnes, Maddison, Lookman and Albrighton are all really good options to then come on and change the dynamics of the game should it be required to be changed in a particular way. Also, you haven't started the game with two current weakness in the shape of Perez and Maddison and and therefore wasting potential future  substitutions. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, buzzer_b said:

Problem is you can’t just chuck Nacho, Vardy and Daka together. That leaves no creativity on the wings. Barnes and Lookman all day out wide. 
 

Brendan has a headache with who he starts up top between Nacho and Vardy with Daka looking like the long term Vardy replacement once the legend calls it a day.

I think it's time to stop thinking about wingers. Think Liverpool, who are their wingers?

 

The 3 man midfield as well as protecting the current defence, allows cover for Ricardo and whoever it is on the left to push forward when appropriate. You wouldn't be expecting Vardy or Daka to get chalk on their boots. However, you would have the great option of bringing Barnes, Lookman, Albrighton or Maddison on for a particular tactical change if required. That's some bench! Did not Vardy turn excellent provider for Iheanacho from the left last season? Was he just 'thown' in then? If so, it it worked quite well really didn't it.

Edited 24 September 2021 by volpeazzurro

[moore_94]

13 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think it's time to stop thinking about wingers. Think Liverpool, who are their wingers?

 

The 3 man midfield as well as protecting the current defence, allows cover for Ricardo and whoever it is on the left to push forward when appropriate. You wouldn't be expecting Vardy or Daka to get chalk on their boots. However, you would have the great option of bringing Barnes, Lookman, Albrighton or Maddison on for a particular tactical change if required. That's some bench!

Salah still spends the majority of his time in a wide position and outside the box, Mane comes inside and gets overlapped by Robertson (we don't have a left back like that) and Firmino spends the majority of his time outside the box barely acting as a striker

 

We saw how ineffective Daka was playing wide right when he got shifted there against Napoli

 

We don't have the players to play the forward system like Liverpool

 

Salah

Mane

 

Edited 24 September 2021 by moore_94

[volpeazzurro]

3 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

We're not Liverpool tho, we don't have two full backs like TAA and Robertson, and we don't have a central defence/midfield strong enough at the minute to cover for attacking in such a way. Liverpool only do what they do because of the individual quality that they possess and years of working together as a unit. You can't just expect our lads to adopt that approach.  

I agree perhaps with the left hand side but a fit Ricardo to me is an ample match to Trent-Arnold. I think the midfield of Ndidi, Tielemans and Soumare is also a match.

 

However, we're not playing the likes of Liverpool and Manchester City every week, we're struggling with teams like Wolves, Brighton and Norwich! Against those I think we've far more chance of beating them being a little more proactive rather than the mish mosh of out of form players and style of football we're playing now that seeks more to merely try not to lose rather than win.

[AKCJ]

7 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Salah still spends the majority of his time in a wide position and outside the box, Mane comes inside and gets overlapped by Robertson (we don't have a left back like that) and Firmino spends the majority of his time outside the box barely acting as a striker

 

We saw how ineffective Daka was playing wide right when he got shifted there against Napoli

 

We don't have the players to play the forward system like Liverpool

 

Salah

Mane

 

I think that accurately shows that they are "wingers" in terms of when they don't have the ball but are very much central when they do. (More so Mane than Salah)

 

They clearly have a defensive shape at Liverpool whereby Salah and Mane track back through the wings but I think they're forwards in their own right and those graphics show they get more and more central, the further up the pitch they get.

Edited 24 September 2021 by AKCJ

[volpeazzurro]

8 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Salah still spends the majority of his time in a wide position and outside the box, Mane comes inside and gets overlapped by Robertson (we don't have a left back like that) and Firmino spends the majority of his time outside the box barely acting as a striker

 

We saw how ineffective Daka was playing wide right when he got shifted there against Napoli

 

We don't have the players to play the forward system like Liverpool

 

Salah

Mane

 

That's really good in fairness and it certainly illustrates your point well I think. However, if we take your point of Mane and Robertson on their left, couldn't our right with Ricardo and Daka somewhat replicate that on our right with Daka moving inside? The purpose of a front three surely is that they are deliberately fluid to create problems for the opposition. Whilst not necessarily quite as effective, could not Bertrand, Thomas or JJ when back do a job on the left? I think Bertrand is very capable but as someone previously pointed out on here, Rodgers tends to only employ one attacking flank. I can't substantiate the latter, I just read it on here and currently, Bertrand's deployment, compared with a couple of pre-season games tends to suggest that he's following more defensive orders, possibly due to the personel chosen and tactics employed. Y

 

However, please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we become Liverpool lite, I merely think that employed in a particular way, that 433 would be far more effective than what we've been doing recently or perhaps even since last Christmas? 

 

[volpeazzurro]

26 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I think that accurately shows that they are "wingers" in terms of when they don't have the ball but are very much central when they do. (More so Mane than Salah)

 

They clearly have a defensive shape at Liverpool whereby Salah and Mane track back through the wings but I think they're forwards in their own right and those graphics show they get more and more central, the further up the pitch they get.

😁 I think you explain it better than me.

[moore_94]

Just now, volpeazzurro said:

That's really good in fairness and it certainly illustrates your point well I think. However, if we take your point of Mane and Robertson on their left, couldn't our right with Ricardo and Daka somewhat replicate that on our right with Daka moving inside? The purpose of a front three surely is that they are deliberately fluid to create problems for the opposition. Whilst not necessarily quite as effective, could not Bertrand, Thomas or JJ when back do a job on the left? I think Bertrand is very capable but as someone previously pointed out on here, Rodgers tends to only employ one attacking flank. I can't substantiate the latter, I just read it on here and currently, Bertrand's deployment, compared with a couple of pre-season games tends to suggest that he's following more defensive orders, possibly due to the personel chosen and tactics employed. Y

 

However, please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we become Liverpool lite, I merely think that employed in a particular way, that 433 would be far more effective than what we've been doing recently or perhaps even since last Christmas? 

 

You could but then you also have to think about how it impacts the player on the opposite side of the pitch and the player through the middle

 

Whoever is in the middle would need to drop back to vacate space for Daka to take up, which may work with Nacho but wouldn't with Vardy

 

Whoever is wide left would need to probably stay wide and out of the box which isn't suitable for Vardy and Nacho never plays on the left

 

Realistically I just don't think there is a way to get all 3 on the pitch at the same time, I think we are only ever likely to see either Vardy or Daka through the middle with Nacho either at 10 or on the right or playing off whoever is through the middle

[Buzzell]

44 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think it's time to stop thinking about wingers. Think Liverpool, who are their wingers?

 

The 3 man midfield as well as protecting the current defence, allows cover for Ricardo and whoever it is on the left to push forward when appropriate. You wouldn't be expecting Vardy or Daka to get chalk on their boots. However, you would have the great option of bringing Barnes, Lookman, Albrighton or Maddison on for a particular tactical change if required. That's some bench! Did not Vardy turn excellent provider for Iheanacho from the left last season? Was he just 'thown' in then? If so, it it worked quite well really didn't it.

Mane and Salah, even though they can be used as strikers, are classed as wingers. Plus you are talking about two world class players in comparison to Barnes, Lookman etc.

 

Fielding a front three of Daka, Nacho and Vardy just would not work. None of them are classed as wingers.

 

I really like the idea of playing 4-3-3 though. The strength in depth is really improving atm and Brendan has a nice headache when picking the side.

[Iran]

Sorry to say, but I was not impressed by him today. 

[beepee1984]

He was awful today, clearly lacking confidence. He is better than today although not good enough to be Vardys long term replacement

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, Iran said:

Sorry to say, but I was not impressed by him today. 

 

7 minutes ago, beepee1984 said:

He was awful today, clearly lacking confidence. He is better than today although not good enough to be Vardys long term replacement

guess he needs games to get into a rhythm of some kind. Could be that he’s never had a period where he isn’t playing 

 

maybe he should play part of some U23’s to help ? 

[Dahnsouff]

Vardy was crap first season, remember that

[Hales]

To be fair to him Brendan doesn't play him. As a striker you need to play to get momentum and confidence. He isn't going to get that being benched all the time.  He needs a run of games.

[moore_94]

Not going to judge him when he is playing on his own with 0 creativity behind him in this crap football system in just his 2nd start

Edited 30 September 2021 by moore_94

[lgfualol]

He looks rusty from barely playing. Wont judge him on that game, actually felt sorry for him moving here as we turn utter garbage.

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

I won't be too harsh. Play him with Nacho and I'm sure he'd have had a better night. Played with Perez and the inevitable happened. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

21 minutes ago, beepee1984 said:

He was awful today, clearly lacking confidence. He is better than today although not good enough to be Vardys long term replacement

He had absolutely **** all service today. At the moment when he gets in the first team it’s with the second string. There’s something there I think 

[KFS]

Bambi on ice tonight but he’s got a lot of time on his side. Expecting good things next year honestly.

[Stevosevic]

Touch isn't very good is it.... 

[Pliskin]

His touch at times was beautiful, however, you can see he is desperate for his first goal, so he is snatching at everything first time rather than taking a touch and thinking about it. 
 

He just needs a goal, and we need to actually play good balls to him, he seems to have to fight for every pass. He has quality and his time will come.

 

I just think he reflects the entire side at the moment, we’re just flat. 

[Corky]

Vardy and Iheanacho's numbers are unbelievable given how crap we are at creating (them setting each other up probably accounts for it). Daka isn't going to get enough chances to miss, let alone score, in this type of team.

[FoxesWalk]

I won’t make any judgement of Daka based on that, not his fault.

[baldeagle]

Wasn’t great but to be fair he didn’t get a lot of service and we were hardly creating anything . Add to this it was probably a last minute thing to start him as Nacho was going to start . 

Edited 1 October 2021 by baldeagle