What would you do to sort this mess out?

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

We were brilliant that night. Really made Arsenal shit themselves.

I was out in sheffield for my birthday and was telling anyone that would listen that they needed to watch us in the late kick off. Was getting a bit of stick early doors to be fair  but we were just relentless and absolutely mullered them in the end. One of my favourite performances under Rodgers.

[Foxes96]

Looking back our 2 wins have come from a starting back 4 of: 
 

Ricardo - Amartey - Söyüncü - Thomas. 
 

Only Norwich and a wolves so maybe not a fair comparison, but maybe we should be putting more faith in Thomas and Amartey rather than the Soton duo. Just a thought.

[CosbehFox]

If continuing to play 4-2-3-1, you are going to need a deputy for Maddison. Generally the best periods of Rodgers match Maddison being in form. 

[sacreblueits442]

15 minutes ago, TheFiveTime said:

3 - 5 - 2. 

 

Schmeichel

Amartey Soyoncu Benko (maybe veste depending on how benko does but try him - maybe even james when he returns he always put a shift in and can drive the ball forward)

 

Soumare tielemens maddison/KDH/choudary- try all of them out and see which one works

 

Pereira/castange/james and barnes/lookman. one defensive one offensive wing back

 

Kels - Vards

 

Anyone who wants to put kel and vards up front must know that our defensive is too bad not to have either 5 at the back or 3 in midfield. I agree kels and vards must play together but this comes at the sacrifice of wingers until we get our best cb back. 4 4 2 doesnt work proven by palace as our cb's are just sooooo bad atm that we need to protect them or keep shipping goals.

 

 

...the problem with trying the combinations out is that you need to play it on a regular basis in order to judge if it works or not!!!

In the meantime you are going to have to run the gauntlet of disapproving supporters booing your every decision and at the same time demoralising your team.You are not going to be afforded the luxury of time in order to see what fits, Rodgers is playing individuals who are out of form hoping that they will regain it soon. That is with a coach that has seen the capabilities and combinations and is struggling to make his system work.

  Getting Nacho on the pitch with Vardy is not difficult, 4-2-3-1 already does this, and with an effective Barnes and Lookman it works. Simplifying the Backline makes the communication easier and does not over complicate our formation, they know their roles, they have played it before.

[Kilworthfox]

4 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Are you drunk sir? 

 

 

 

Well I guess we could hope our way through, but that's not going very well. 

 

So containment is our best option out of posession then being direct in. 

[davieG]

I'm not convinced the formation is the problem, changing that and we seem to change it every game will not solve the under performances or the mental barriers that seem to be in there.

 

I'm starting to think that all these game by game changes and the constant so called development of players to enable them to play all these different formations has overwhelmed them.

 

We need for them to be given a clear and consistent message of how we play the game until we can get some form and confidence back.

[Dan]

It's tricky, I don't think there's any quick fix although Finnegan's shouts are probably good ones in the shorter term. I just get the impression we're far too nice as a club. Could you imagine the outcry if anyone else had been on the end of that nonsense at Brighton? I'm not saying go full Mark Hughes and blame the ref after every single loss but we just sit there and take the crap given to us.

 

I am not saying refs are the reason by any means but that's just an example of us being too easy to roll over. There is without doubt a soft underbelly to this side and it's costing us.

[TheFiveTime]

4 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the problem with trying the combinations out is that you need to play it on a regular basis in order to judge if it works or not!!!

In the meantime you are going to have to run the gauntlet of disapproving supporters booing your every decision and at the same time demoralising your team.You are not going to be afforded the luxury of time in order to see what fits, Rodgers is playing individuals who are out of form hoping that they will regain it soon. That is with a coach that has seen the capabilities and combinations and is struggling to make his system work.

  Getting Nacho on the pitch with Vardy is not difficult, 4-2-3-1 already does this, and with an effective Barnes and Lookman it works. Simplifying the Backline makes the communication easier and does not over complicate our formation, they know their roles, they have played it before.

And which two centre backs have you seen capable of providing an adequate defence in a back four? especially with a 2 man midfield. tried against palace, it didnt work. At times nacho sunk so deep he was practically another midfielder and it still didnt work. every attack palace opened us up and they dominated the midfield throughout. So no, it doesnt really work tbh without two good, effective cb's

[tickler28]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Come on then, what's the answer? We've several key players injured and several out of form. What on earth do we do?

 

How do we get our two in form players in Iheanacho and Vardy on the pitch at the same time, whilst also having a strong enough defence and midfield? 

 

How do we get Daka much needed game time and what's now the goal for this season? If we miss out on European football is it the end of the road for us? Will it be such a bad thing to rip this team up and rebuild again given our recent recruitment success or is it a worry that even if Brendan goes we've still got Lee Congerton?

 

I don't want us to go to a back 3/5 but then what midfield and defence is good enough in a 4-4-1-1 / 4-4-2 with this next run of really difficult games before Ndidi returns?

 

Is it time for Benkovic to be thrown in in the hope he somehow does OK with Soyuncu? Or do we not need to worry as Evans is going to be OK as he's ill not injured. 

 

I think I'd sacrifice Barnes for a few games and stick either Soumare or KDH in to the midfield with Soyuncu and Amartey as the CB's if Evans is unavailable. We may need to practice how we maintain the width if we don't have 2 wingers but KDH tends to drift wide and Lookman could be given a free role to operate in a 4-3-1-2 like Rodgers loved at Liverpool during his best spell before the slip. Lookman would be Sterling in this instance. Daka could be given the final 20 mins for a renewed attack and Barnes and Maddison have to prove their worth with sub appearances where required, they can slot in to this system of sorts.

 

It's by no means any better than what we've already tried, but the one constant is those 2 up top have to play right now. They score or create almost all of our goals and given how desperate we are elsewhere it's just madness to go with anything else. Our defence needs simplifying but it needs pace as well which Vestergaard doesn't have and I'm not sure there's a defensive partner we have here that covers his limitations in a back 4. He's evidently a back 3/5 defender but we just don't have the players for that system, certainly not at the minute if at all with this squad.

 

This next run of games is crucial (aren't they all) but we've stumbled in to this break with some pretty shocking results against some teams we ought to beat and with what's to come it could well get worse which is a harrowing thought. It would come as no surprise if we didn't win more than 1 of our next 5 league games and we could be all but out of Europe by the too. We'd be in a very dark place if that happens and I fear for the future.

 

We have to get some divine inspiration, we have to get Evans on the pitch and keep him there and we have to have a midfield that can get the ball in to our strikers and then maintain a good fight in the middle when we're under the cosh. We can do it, this regime has been unbelievable given the horrendous injuries and setbacks we've had and I don't want to see it fall apart in this way.

 

Come on Brendan, time to regroup and earn your wedginals.

 

100% agree that Nacho and Vards have to start....how that happens and how we set up is anyones guess but for what its worth this is how I would lineup....the diamond has to return!!

 

Schmeichel 

 

Ricardo

Evans

Soyuncu

Bertrand

 

Hamza (bottom of diamond)

Castagne (Right of diamond)

Soumare (left of diamond)

 

Tielemans (point of diamond)

 

Vardy

Nacho

 

Yes I've pushed Castagne into midfield on the right....a position he is more than capable of playing.....I've got Tielemans higher up with less defensive duties and kept Nacho and Vards up top.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stevosevic]

The biggest question is why Brendan appears to have had a personality transplant and abandoned his apparent preferred style of play.

 

 

[turtmcfly]

12 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

With neither Maddison or Tielemans in form, maybe it's time to put them both back as number 8's together (with Hamza at the 6) and see if they can help eachother find their feet again?

 

This seems to me a good call.

 

For all Youri's ability when given time and space, he's sub-par under pressure. At the moment it's all too easy for opposition midfields to target him.

 

Obviously requires Maddison to return to some kind of form

 

Edited 5 October 2021 by turtmcfly

[TAFKA Castroneves]

Firstly I’d be looking at morale and the squad dynamic right now (to go all football manager 😂) I would like to reinforce that bit of a family togetherness which seems to be breaking away somewhat into what appears at least to be a more kliq based environment from the outside.

 

I’d have a tactics meeting comparing the same system we’ve been playing and why it’s been specifically going wrong unlike the last time we utilised it - find the errors - a lot of its to do with being too deep and not clinical enough in the final third (edit - that being more for the final pass not the finishing)

 

id tactically tweek in a way to introduce a longer ball solution on occasion alongside the possession game, teams aren’t expecting that from us anymore and with a lot of the bigger clubs coming up like United I think we would disrupt them further with them not expecting the occasional ball direct to an on running Vardy from CB or so (Soyuncu actually has a really good long pass as well)

 

Next one is a massive one for me - we gotta sort out how we attack corners again, we tried short corners before and then just went back to a zonal attacking model (feels like we just dropped the whole practice of any corners!) where we just don’t ever threat or score. I’d have three options ready, a quick short corner where we can catch the opposition sleeping, one into the middle with runners actually knowing where they are going to target and why - aka near post run to either nod on if we truly can’t beat the first man with any of our players - or to at least disrupt the middle with that second ball. Then I’d consider something whacky like one to the outside of the box to draw the defence out and slip through a prepared Barnes (for one example) who’s sat back inside and running through.

 

Id also if I had to choose a formation go for 5-3-2 with our injuries right now, it’s a bit cautious perhaps but without Fofana and Evans being in and out we need to secure up a bit - but also encourage the full backs to be providing that attacking width.

 

For specific players I’d be giving Benkovic a couple of games because I don’t feel sometimes performances in smaller leagues really contrast well all the time to the Premier League. Mendy frankly would have been registered for me as well (well I’d never have signed Vestergaard frankly so the space would be free) Amartey as well is another one Id be back looking at as part of the back three.

Edited 5 October 2021 by TAFKA Castroneves

[sacreblueits442]

5 minutes ago, TheFiveTime said:

And which two centre backs have you seen capable of providing an adequate defence in a back four? especially with a 2 man midfield. tried against palace, it didnt work. At times nacho sunk so deep he was practically another midfielder and it still didnt work. every attack palace opened us up and they dominated the midfield throughout. So no, it doesnt really work tbh without two good, effective cb's

.....we cannot allow not having a particular player in the team to disrupt our formation and the way we mostly play!!!

We will have to go with what we have, we have little choice. Ndidi being out did not help against Palace and we missed his presence but our midfield has been mostly out numbered and we need to be more effective with the ball as we were constantly turning it over under no real pressure. Yes we have a weakened back line but we seem at present to have a weak team mentality as well.

[turtmcfly]

16 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Well I guess we could hope our way through, but that's not going very well. 

 

So containment is our best option out of posession then being direct in. 

 

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think a tactic that relies on a solid, well-drilled defence is an optimal choice currently. 

 

Giving them less to do (for me via a strengthening of the midfield) would be a better option imo

 

 

[los dedos]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

There is a sports psychologist 👍

 

I basically think the whole coaching staff are too nice. We need a scary ****. My mind springs to Terry but I'm not a fan, but I cant think of anyone better.

I think one of the problems also stems from the way we sign players on personality as well as ability . Feels like we've ended up with a squad full of

"Nice guys". Which is fine when its going well but not so much when the chips are down .

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Sack Brendan and get Pearson back in 

[Collibosher70]

57 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

This for me is what I want to see again, when we attack it's quick and look at the bodies getting forwards. Look how many men we have in their half when they're on the ball.

 

We now play like that Arsenal team, very timid and look at 6s and 7s when we give the ball away and get turned over. 

 

We need to be 20 yards further up the pitch. We look so much better when we're higher up and turning the ball over in the oppositions half.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50271775

 

 

This 

[kingfox]

Some probably won’t agree to reverting back to this; however two performances from last season always stood out for me, Leeds United away and Arsenal away, in those two games, Rodgers completely changed our approach, it was the first time where I felt “Maybe he does have a Plan B after all”.

 

In those two games we played 3-4-2-1, against Leeds we were missing Evans & Ndidi, against Arsenal we were missing Ndidi. In those games though we adopted a more defensive approach, we actually looked secure, let the opposition have the ball and played an absolute masterclass in pressing and counter attacking football, especially against Leeds when every time we advanced through their midfield, we looked like we could score at every opportunity. A big influence in those games though was Papy Mendy, a player who we’ve stupidly not registered for Premier League football, whether Choudhury or Soumare could do the job Mendy did is up for discussion; however this approach going forward might be worth a try. 

 

With the current state our defence is in, we can’t keep approaching games like we are doing, we are far too open and teams are picking us off far too easily. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Swap the family stand and the KOP.

[glenny_fox]

Our pressing game has completely changed to what it was. our whole team has dropped probably 20 yards back and we no longer press as a team, which is inviting a lot of extra pressure onto us.

 

in possession our attacking triangles seem to have completely vanished, and once one of players passes the ball there is no quick movements forward to find that space to receive the ball back. Everything is just far to slow and passive. 

 

also, play both Ricardo and Castagne... even when they aren't fully on their game, they offer far more than Bertrand has demonstrated so far. Oh and get Vestergaard some boots that have wheels on, so he can at least outpace a Tortoise.

[KrefelderFox666]

Personally, I would like to see the focus shift to the EL, and even the League Cup. These are our best chances of European qualification for next year and a trophy/good cup run is always good. Let's be honest, what can we really achieve in the PL? 6th/7th if we push hard and get a bit of luck?

 

Let's play Iheanacho and Vardy together in the EL and give Daka some game time in the PL. Iheanacho will probably be happy playing 2 games a week. It's obvious that Vardy is being managed to only play 1 game a week.

 

PL team:

 

Schmeichel; Bertrand, Vestergaard, Soyuncu, Ricardo; Barnes, Choudhury, Soumare, Albrighton; Iheanacho, Daka (4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1)

 

EL team:

 

Schmeichel; Castagne, Evans (if fit), Soyuncu, Ricardo (if up to it); Lookman/Barnes, Tielemans, Ndidi/Soumare (injury depending), Perez/Lookman; Iheanacho, Vardy

 

Carabao:

 

Ward; Thomas, Vestergaard, Amartey, Soyuncu, Castagne; Soumare, Tielemans; Barnes/Lookman, Maddison, Perez/Albrighton; Daka/Vardy/Iheanacho

[Dahnsouff]

4-3-1-2 / 4-4-1-1

 

The God of Distribution

Timmy Dan*. Cags/Jannik. Luke

          Bouba* Youri Lookman

             Ayoze/Maddison

                 Kel Vard

Forget width, own the midfield   

* injury based selection 

 

 

 

[Bob Hazels shorts]

                   Schmeichel 

Ricardo  - Little Wes- Evans - Söyüncü - Castagne

                   Tielemans - N'didi

                    Nacho - Madison

                          Vardy

 

When all fit and on form I believe we we set up like that as that's our best 11. Who do you leave out?

 

Option of a progressive 3 or a 5 if/ when needed and little Wes also likes to attack

 

IMO you change those players not available for who was bought or earmarked as cover.

 

Barnes and Lookman offer a different dimension 'plan B' during matches.

 

Picking Barnes now forces our hand in formation and sadly he has been caught out in his current wide and trying to run through a wall of players role, needs to adjust

[The boy Linacre]

Lots of different layers and timescales here for me:

A) The month post International window

B) The Europa League group conclusion and the period to Christmas

 

Short term we look poor, lots of players out of form, formations not working, we can't defend, we move the ball way too slowly, we can't pass to people in blue or mint green, the list goes on.......

Pick any of these fixes:

A)

1) Get Jonny fit, he has to play with Cags THOUGH for gods sake Evans IF you can't move the ball quickly move it on to somebody else who can or go long, his dwelling on the ball at the back has got on my tits the last 12-18 months

2) Physio's get JJ sorted asap, ideally before the end of the 10th month of the year and get him in at left back ASAP.

3) Love Riccy but Castagne is just totally solid at right back and for me now indispensible, they both deserve to be in, pick on form, play till not.

4) Midfield Tielemens, probably Soumare, Choudry (I don't know when Wilf is back), you get a bit of creativity with Soumare (and a little bit of Wilf).

5) QED = Has to be Nach & Vardy, best form of last season with those 2 up front AND as Sky said Sunday 33 goals in 32 games, leaves a spot for Lookman BUT if he performs badly he's replaced earlier (not 60 mins by Barnes or Maddison based on opposition & match situation).  Then whoever hits form, gets the start.

B) All as above and Wilf plays in place of Hamza.  Maybe Soumare goes too for an extra Barnes or Maddison, Bench back up, Thomas, Jannik, KDH, Daka (starts Europe & Brighton with Nach), Albrighton, Perez, Bertrand.

 

Take 9pts from Moscow & Warsaw & get a draw in Italy or win the play off if we finish 2nd, lets still be in it by the time we sort it all out!!!

 

Really importantly, find a way to get Maddison and Barnes back to former glories, a better defensive approach and those 2 playing well are the key.

 

Wes back in mid to end Feb, win 2 cups if we fix all of that!!!!  And finish 6th!!!

 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

27 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Some probably won’t agree to reverting back to this; however two performances from last season always stood out for me, Leeds United away and Arsenal away, in those two games, Rodgers completely changed our approach, it was the first time where I felt “Maybe he does have a Plan B after all”.

 

In those two games we played 3-4-2-1, against Leeds we were missing Evans & Ndidi, against Arsenal we were missing Ndidi. In those games though we adopted a more defensive approach, we actually looked secure, let the opposition have the ball and played an absolute masterclass in pressing and counter attacking football, especially against Leeds when every time we advanced through their midfield, we looked like we could score at every opportunity. A big influence in those games though was Papy Mendy, a player who we’ve stupidly not registered for Premier League football, whether Choudhury or Soumare could do the job Mendy did is up for discussion; however this approach going forward might be worth a try. 

 

With the current state our defence is in, we can’t keep approaching games like we are doing, we are far too open and teams are picking us off far too easily. 

Doesn't work against teams that come for a point, or all 3 using the same tactics themselves though does it...