Our league record since the end of February

[Guy]

On 31/10/2021 at 11:03, Kinowe Soorie said:

It’s mad really, that a player Sven signed, is still playing in the team.

I thought Sven brought in some real talent - Kasper obviously ... Darius Vassell, Sol Bamba, then loanees such as Ben Mee, Yakubu, Jeffrey Bruma and Kyle Naughton - albeit in the Championship. Just a shame they were a team of talented individuals rather than a team....

[KrefelderFox666]

10 minutes ago, Guy said:

I thought Sven brought in some real talent - Kasper obviously ... Darius Vassell, Sol Bamba, then loanees such as Ben Mee, Yakubu, Jeffrey Bruma and Kyle Naughton - albeit in the Championship. Just a shame they were a team of talented individuals rather than a team....

Van Aanholt too on loan.

[Aus Fox]

On the greatest goalkeeper debate. Shilton was obviously a great goalkeeper, however, I would argue is wasn’t until his Forest days he became a world class goalkeeper.

We had the young lad with plenty of potential - who did make the odd howler or two, luckily for him there is limited footage around, unlike today for Kasper, where ever goal is analysed, replayed and replayed over and over again.

I would argue Kasper is a better goalkeeper than the Peter Shilton who left in 1974, although Shilton went on to be a better goalkeeper. 
Banks we had in his prime, although I’ve only got stories from my dad and grandad about how good he actually was, keeping our teams single handily some games.

For me it goes:

1) Banks

2) Kasper

3) Wallington

4) Shilton

 

[Guest Kopfkino]

On 31/10/2021 at 11:43, Stadt said:

Clean sheets are obviously ideal but I think the bigger problem is we can’t even restrict teams to just the one goal. We’ve conceded 2 or more 9 times this season ffs

Yep this is significant - until the Man City, Everton, Liverpool triple header at Christmas in 19/20 we only conceded more than once in a game (cup and league) on one occasion, away at Liverpool - a last second penalty at that. Once in 20 games compared to 9 times in 15 this season. It wasn’t until game 20 that we conceded 17 in the league which is what we’re on this season after 10 (also what we’d conceded at this point in 15/16 so maybe Brendan should get the pizza out).  
 

Start of 19/20 we were phenomenally efficient at both ends, it would be difficult to replicate again.

But it’s a reminder of just how far downhill that element of our game as gone and it’s the foundation for success. Also a time when we were the best in the league for not conceding from set pieces

Edited 1 November 2021 by Kopfkino

[Les-TA-Jon]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Disagree personally then. It's about what you do whilst here not about how long you've stayed here. Just for me, when Banks and Shilton were here, as opposed to later on in their careers, they were still better all round goalkeepers for me. As was Wallington in my opinion. I reiterate that Schmeichel has indeed overall been a brilliant goalkeeper for us over a long period of time and has been consistently good. However, he's also consistently had the same flaws throughout that time that he has seemingly done little or nothing to rectify. The others mentioned, for as long as they were here, didn't suffer from such flaws. All very subjective and I've enjoyed watching all of them. Schmeichel has been a loyal player and very good club goalkeeper. Nobody has rushed in gagging to buy him that we know to. Banks and Shilton were extremely wanted player. Banks was a World Cup Winner whilst with us albeit how Leicester came to let him go was another story.

So Kasper’s significantly better Leicester trophy cabinet counts for nothing when comparing to Banks and Shilton? Strange viewpoint 

[Foxaholic ME]

On 31/10/2021 at 21:53, NaijaFox said:

How did we do in the 23 games preceding our closing run in our Great Escape season? 

 

Anyway, merely wondered why extract a seemingly random period of games, and you seem to have clarified that it's to propagate an anti-Brendan agendum (which frankly I am entirely indifferent to). Thanks buddy

I  think we are  quite tolerant  as supporters surprised  no booing at half time Saturday, I find it hard to say we are having  a reasonable season  when Spurs  roughly level I would say in expectations  are considered to have had a dreadful season to date and have sacked the manager  despite  actually having more points than us,  . In fairness we have only stunk the house out the whole game at West Ham  whereas they have managed  it considerabllly more.. At the end of the day points matter more than  performances

[Les-TA-Jon]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Disagree personally then. It's about what you do whilst here not about how long you've stayed here. Just for me, when Banks and Shilton were here, as opposed to later on in their careers, they were still better all round goalkeepers for me. As was Wallington in my opinion. I reiterate that Schmeichel has indeed overall been a brilliant goalkeeper for us over a long period of time and has been consistently good. However, he's also consistently had the same flaws throughout that time that he has seemingly done little or nothing to rectify. The others mentioned, for as long as they were here, didn't suffer from such flaws. All very subjective and I've enjoyed watching all of them. Schmeichel has been a loyal player and very good club goalkeeper. Nobody has rushed in gagging to buy him that we know to. Banks and Shilton were extremely wanted player. Banks was a World Cup Winner whilst with us albeit how Leicester came to let him go was another story.

Yes and it’s: 

 

Kasper: Community Shield, FA Cup, Champions League Quarter Finalist, 1st Division champion, 2 Division champion 

 

Shilton: 2nd division

 

Banks: League Cup

Edited 1 November 2021 by Les-TA-Jon

[The whole world smiles]

These kind of threads make me laugh, it's always a really random time span to suit the posters agenda. 

 

Like in this case it's 28th of Feb 2021 not the whole of Feb because if its the whole of Feb then he would have to include 3 wins and a draw which would probably push us easily into top half form. 

 

We have also won an awful lot of cup games in the random time window that the op wants us to judge Rodgers in (6 I think) so that again skews it in his his favour. 

[FoxOnWheels]

11 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

These kind of threads make me laugh, it's always a really random time span to suit the posters agenda. 

 

Like in this case it's 28th of Feb 2021 not the whole of Feb because if its the whole of Feb then he would have to include 3 wins and a draw which would probably push us easily into top half form. 

 

We have also won an awful lot of cup games in the random time window that the op wants us to judge Rodgers in (6 I think) so that again skews it in his his favour. 

Add in them 3 wins and a draw still isn’t too pleasant then

[The whole world smiles]

3 minutes ago, FoxOnWheels said:

Add in them 3 wins and a draw still isn’t too pleasant then

Add in them results and its 60 odds points if you extrapolate that form over a season. Good enough for 8th last season and 6th the season before that. 

 

We are capable of better but it's hardly looking over your shoulder at the bottom 3 like the original post suggests! 

[FoxOnWheels]

19 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Add in them results and its 60 odds points if you extrapolate that form over a season. Good enough for 8th last season and 6th the season before that. 

 

We are capable of better but it's hardly looking over your shoulder at the bottom 3 like the original post suggests! 

True and 8th-6th isn’t a disaster but if we carry on how we have been I can’t see us finishing there

[NaijaFox]

2 hours ago, Foxaholic ME said:

I  think we are  quite tolerant  as supporters surprised  no booing at half time Saturday, I find it hard to say we are having  a reasonable season  when Spurs  roughly level I would say in expectations  are considered to have had a dreadful season to date and have sacked the manager  despite  actually having more points than us,  . In fairness we have only stunk the house out the whole game at West Ham  whereas they have managed  it considerabllly more.. At the end of the day points matter more than  performances

What would you booing? That it took to world-class saves by Ramsdale (from Nacho and Maddison) to keep us out and blank the start of our performance revival as the first-half wore on? 

 

BTW, have you actually seen Spurs play this season? Given that, among other things, they spent also as much on a single signing this past summer transfer window than we did on our 4 transfers (and 1 loanee) combined, not exactly surprising that they would let go a manager who had actually been their 6th or 7th candidate (after everyone else reportedly turned them down) when he was producing the sort of gruel that would even make Claude Puel blush, without the results.

 

Anyway, like I already stated, I am currently ambivalent on the Brendan question. Nonetheless, partisanly cherry-picking periods of form merely sheds heat without much light.

 

Edited 2 November 2021 by NaijaFox

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

So Kasper’s significantly better Leicester trophy cabinet counts for nothing when comparing to Banks and Shilton? Strange viewpoint 

Not really, trophies are won by a team not an individual. Having said that, Banks's World Cup wasn't a bad little trophy though was it?

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Yes and it’s: 

 

Kasper: Community Shield, FA Cup, Champions League Quarter Finalist, 1st Division champion, 2 Division champion 

 

Shilton: 2nd division

 

Banks: League Cup

All won by a team, not an individual. They're hardly a measure of how an individual goalkeeper performs are they though I dare say many supporters round the country from different teams will remember Banks winning the World Cup though probably quite a number of them won't remember that he was a Leicester player at the time. There are many players currently and historically that we'd all remember as special for their teams that haven't won a Premiership title, Shearer, Gerrard and Kane to name just three. 

 

Ritchie De Laet and Demarai Gray were awarded Premiership medals, are we saying therefore that they were better players than Steve Whitworth and Keith Weller?

[Sly]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

All won by a team, not an individual. They're hardly a measure of how an individual goalkeeper performs are they though I dare say many supporters round the country from different teams will remember Banks winning the World Cup though probably quite a number of them won't remember that he was a Leicester player at the time. There are many players currently and historically that we'd all remember as special for their teams that haven't won a Premiership title, Shearer, Gerrard and Kane to name just three. 

 

Ritchie De Laet and Demarai Gray were awarded Premiership medals, are we saying therefore that they were better players than Steve Whitworth and Keith Weller?

It’s hard to judge players from different generations when discussing ability. We can only really reflect on what an individual has achieved with our club.

 

Football has changed through the decades, it’s become less physical; more technical; better playing surfaces; fitness; recuperation; diet and changes with in game technology.  

 

For example, would Banks / Stilton have been able to play the football we try to, with ball at your feet and passing out to defenders and ball retention. 
 

Would Kasper have been able to play in the mud and having a smaller frame size in a more physical time period. 

 

In the 60s, you still couldn’t make substitutions in a game. If we think we have great but injury prone players now, they’d have never reached potential carrying knocks every week, or carrying on in games where they were injured after 5 minutes.

 

Nostalgia also tends to play a part, when reflecting on historical players. 

 

On our form, we sort of need to appreciate that we’ve lost a bit of experience and character with both Morgan and Fuchs leaving the squad. Simple things like language barriers between Vestergaard and Soyuncu could have factored in, as neither has a natural tongue in which to talk to each other. It might not have shown already, however it will be a boost having Evans back, for this as well; and his better overall ability and experience than these two. None of our back line is a true leader either, which is something that Huth added in and to a degree, aided us massively in the great escape season. Evans doesn’t really fit this role either. Fofana is a big, big miss, as he can do a bit of everything, albeit he’s relatively inexperienced. I still believe adding Saliba if he’s attainable may be beneficial, as it would potentially secure Fofana more long term, they have a chemistry with playing together and we’d then have three players who speak fluent French within our back line (Ricardo also does).

 

We’ve been brutally poor from set pieces for a while and the stats prove that. It’s something that we all could see last season and I believe it’s why we signed certain individuals. If you think back to 15/16, we actively allowed people to cross balls into the box, as we had two no nonsense defenders in Morgan and Huth that would clear stuff up. We were also more of a threat from set pieces. We’ve evolved to be a better footballing side since then, however potentially conceded the ability to rough games out. We need to either acquire better players, or adopt a more defence first philosophy again. We’re not the only “footballing / possession” team that has struggled with this, Manchester City have spent over £1,000,000,000 on defenders. They win games by being technically better further forward and retaining the ball. We’re not quite at that level, and will struggle to build a team to compete long term to that degree, without throwing lots of money at it too.

 

Simple changes in system may aid us, just put people on posts. At this point, putting 10 men on the line would be an improvement.

 

I wouldn’t say we’ve dipped in form, as we largely look a good footballing side. I think teams have just found a way of beating us, and exposed our fragile underbelly. 
 

 

 

[Aus Fox]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

All won by a team, not an individual. They're hardly a measure of how an individual goalkeeper performs are they though I dare say many supporters round the country from different teams will remember Banks winning the World Cup though probably quite a number of them won't remember that he was a Leicester player at the time. There are many players currently and historically that we'd all remember as special for their teams that haven't won a Premiership title, Shearer, Gerrard and Kane to name just three. 

 

Ritchie De Laet and Demarai Gray were awarded Premiership medals, are we saying therefore that they were better players than Steve Whitworth and Keith Weller?

Shearer won a Premier League title, Gerrard didn’t win one, but did win every other major trophy including all three European trophies. Kane plays for Spurs.

[KrefelderFox666]

8 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

These kind of threads make me laugh, it's always a really random time span to suit the posters agenda. 

 

Like in this case it's 28th of Feb 2021 not the whole of Feb because if its the whole of Feb then he would have to include 3 wins and a draw which would probably push us easily into top half form. 

 

We have also won an awful lot of cup games in the random time window that the op wants us to judge Rodgers in (6 I think) so that again skews it in his his favour. 

It's as good as an indicator of our recent from but as an old saying goes, you are only as good as your next game. We could have lost the first 10 games but if we go on a solid run in the remaining 28, we could easily finish Top 4/5/6. Norwich could do it this season but in theory, you would write a team like that off. However, why shouldn't form change.

 

Every season, every game is different, to an extent form goes out of the window. But us fans need to be able to relate to something and try and predict something. Remember all those what is required to finish Top 4. All based on past data but it means very little in the context of now other than giving an indication.

 

So in absence of a crystal ball, this is the best indication of what might happen. I just take it game by game, enjoy the moment and hope for the best. Until it is mathematically impossible to achieve something, I will have that hope.

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

All won by a team, not an individual. They're hardly a measure of how an individual goalkeeper performs are they though I dare say many supporters round the country from different teams will remember Banks winning the World Cup though probably quite a number of them won't remember that he was a Leicester player at the time. There are many players currently and historically that we'd all remember as special for their teams that haven't won a Premiership title, Shearer, Gerrard and Kane to name just three. 

 

Ritchie De Laet and Demarai Gray were awarded Premiership medals, are we saying therefore that they were better players than Steve Whitworth and Keith Weller?

I think Schmeichel's longevity along with our best ever achievements in our history pitch him right alongside them. His exploits in huge games in the CL knockouts and the FA Cup final were just jaw dropping. It would be a close call though, where as its not close when measuring Vardy against any other striker we've had here or Kante and Mahrez vs midfielders and wingers. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

4 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

All won by a team, not an individual. They're hardly a measure of how an individual goalkeeper performs are they though I dare say many supporters round the country from different teams will remember Banks winning the World Cup though probably quite a number of them won't remember that he was a Leicester player at the time. There are many players currently and historically that we'd all remember as special for their teams that haven't won a Premiership title, Shearer, Gerrard and Kane to name just three. 

 

Ritchie De Laet and Demarai Gray were awarded Premiership medals, are we saying therefore that they were better players than Steve Whitworth and Keith Weller?

So Kasper didn't help us win the FA Cup with his worldie save vs Mount? 

 

5 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Not really, trophies are won by a team not an individual. Having said that, Banks's World Cup wasn't a bad little trophy though was it?

I don't know what Banks' world cup win has to do with Leicester? 

 

I don't know how many more times I can explain this. I'm not talking about 'best keeper'. I'm pretty sure most people would agree that, in a vacuum, based on pure skill and performance, Banks/Shilton were better keepers than Schmeichel. 

 

What I'm saying is, that when you account for longevity, influence, achievements, honours, performance, individual saves, trophy cabinet and overall impact at the club, being a mainstay in the team for 10 years during the club's most successful era - then Kasper has been a better keeper for Leicester than anyone else. 

 

You keep moving the goalposts (if you pardon the pun) - is the 'greatest keeper debate' about individual skill, achievements or overall impact? Because first you said it was about skill. Then you said "It's about what you do at the club" but then you said that trophies aren't a measure of how good an individual player is, whilst simultaneously citing Banks' world cup medal. 

 

So you're not really putting together a coherent argument and indeed not one that really even attempts to address my claim of 'Kasper is Leicester's greatest ever keeper' using my definition as I've explained it.  

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, Sly said:

It’s hard to judge players from different generations when discussing ability. We can only really reflect on what an individual has achieved with our club.

 

Football has changed through the decades, it’s become less physical; more technical; better playing surfaces; fitness; recuperation; diet and changes with in game technology.  

 

For example, would Banks / Stilton have been able to play the football we try to, with ball at your feet and passing out to defenders and ball retention. 
 

Would Kasper have been able to play in the mud and having a smaller frame size in a more physical time period. 

 

In the 60s, you still couldn’t make substitutions in a game. If we think we have great but injury prone players now, they’d have never reached potential carrying knocks every week, or carrying on in games where they were injured after 5 minutes.

 

Nostalgia also tends to play a part, when reflecting on historical players. 

 

On our form, we sort of need to appreciate that we’ve lost a bit of experience and character with both Morgan and Fuchs leaving the squad. Simple things like language barriers between Vestergaard and Soyuncu could have factored in, as neither has a natural tongue in which to talk to each other. It might not have shown already, however it will be a boost having Evans back, for this as well; and his better overall ability and experience than these two. None of our back line is a true leader either, which is something that Huth added in and to a degree, aided us massively in the great escape season. Evans doesn’t really fit this role either. Fofana is a big, big miss, as he can do a bit of everything, albeit he’s relatively inexperienced. I still believe adding Saliba if he’s attainable may be beneficial, as it would potentially secure Fofana more long term, they have a chemistry with playing together and we’d then have three players who speak fluent French within our back line (Ricardo also does).

 

We’ve been brutally poor from set pieces for a while and the stats prove that. It’s something that we all could see last season and I believe it’s why we signed certain individuals. If you think back to 15/16, we actively allowed people to cross balls into the box, as we had two no nonsense defenders in Morgan and Huth that would clear stuff up. We were also more of a threat from set pieces. We’ve evolved to be a better footballing side since then, however potentially conceded the ability to rough games out. We need to either acquire better players, or adopt a more defence first philosophy again. We’re not the only “footballing / possession” team that has struggled with this, Manchester City have spent over £1,000,000,000 on defenders. They win games by being technically better further forward and retaining the ball. We’re not quite at that level, and will struggle to build a team to compete long term to that degree, without throwing lots of money at it too.

 

Simple changes in system may aid us, just put people on posts. At this point, putting 10 men on the line would be an improvement.

 

I wouldn’t say we’ve dipped in form, as we largely look a good footballing side. I think teams have just found a way of beating us, and exposed our fragile underbelly. 
 

 

 

Very fair and a lot of sense there. As for set peices, for whatever reason and despite what Rodgers says, it just isn't working. Whilst he probably really doesn't like it, for confidence reasons probably a temporary return to man for man marking may at least improve things.

 

I do accept some of what you say regarding goalkeepers also but one thing for certain is that both Shilton and Banks commanded their areas well and were renowned for it and that transcended ground conditions. Part of our problem at set peices is that Schmeichel remains rooted to his line and for someone who can essentially use his arms and therefore an extra couple of feet in height, he's not even as much use as an extra centre half. He's never improved that aspect of his game since he's been here. Shilton was synonymous with a wish to continually improve himself. 

[volpeazzurro]

59 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

So Kasper didn't help us win the FA Cup with his worldie save vs Mount? 

 

I don't know what Banks' world cup win has to do with Leicester? 

 

I don't know how many more times I can explain this. I'm not talking about 'best keeper'. I'm pretty sure most people would agree that, in a vacuum, based on pure skill and performance, Banks/Shilton were better keepers than Schmeichel. 

 

What I'm saying is, that when you account for longevity, influence, achievements, honours, performance, individual saves, trophy cabinet and overall impact at the club, being a mainstay in the team for 10 years during the club's most successful era - then Kasper has been a better keeper for Leicester than anyone else. 

 

You keep moving the goalposts (if you pardon the pun) - is the 'greatest keeper debate' about individual skill, achievements or overall impact? Because first you said it was about skill. Then you said "It's about what you do at the club" but then you said that trophies aren't a measure of how good an individual player is, whilst simultaneously citing Banks' world cup medal. 

 

So you're not really putting together a coherent argument and indeed not one that really even attempts to address my claim of 'Kasper is Leicester's greatest ever keeper' using my definition as I've explained it.  

Of course his save helped as did Tielemans goal, it and all other games are team performances. We lost to Arsenal on Saturday but it wasn't Schmeichels fault it was a collective failure. 

 

My point with Banks is whatever the amount of trophies won, it's always a team effort. Likewise Shearer etc won bugger all but he's still one of England's best ever striker. Had he been at another team he may have won something but likewise it would be because of a team effort. 

[Sly]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

Very fair and a lot of sense there. As for set peices, for whatever reason and despite what Rodgers says, it just isn't working. Whilst he probably really doesn't like it, for confidence reasons probably a temporary return to man for man marking may at least improve things.

 

I do accept some of what you say regarding goalkeepers also but one thing for certain is that both Shilton and Banks commanded their areas well and were renowned for it and that transcended ground conditions. Part of our problem at set peices is that Schmeichel remains rooted to his line and for someone who can essentially use his arms and therefore an extra couple of feet in height, he's not even as much use as an extra centre half. He's never improved that aspect of his game since he's been here. Shilton was synonymous with a wish to continually improve himself. 

Yes, Kasper is a brilliant shot stopper but his weakness for some reason has always been an inability to command his area. It’s something that has also troubled the likes of De Gea, Ederson etc as well.

 

Historically (stereotypically) I suppose we also believed it was a British trait and “foreign” goalkeepers coming into the Premier League struggled with this aspect of the game. In a previous era when it was more ball onto the wing and then cross for the striker, it highlighted how well drilled British keepers were at commanding the area. As times have changed with more intricate build up, I think this has to a degree become a lost art. 

[coolhandfox]

15 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Yep this is significant - until the Man City, Everton, Liverpool triple header at Christmas in 19/20 we only conceded more than once in a game (cup and league) on one occasion, away at Liverpool - a last second penalty at that. Once in 20 games compared to 9 times in 15 this season. It wasn’t until game 20 that we conceded 17 in the league which is what we’re on this season after 10 (also what we’d conceded at this point in 15/16 so maybe Brendan should get the pizza out).  
 

Start of 19/20 we were phenomenally efficient at both ends, it would be difficult to replicate again.

But it’s a reminder of just how far downhill that element of our game as gone and it’s the foundation for success. Also a time when we were the best in the league for not conceding from set pieces

Amazing what you can do with a fully fit, settled back four. 

[Matt]

I can finally appreciate looking back on our form past January in the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons.

 

Atleast we’d had some kind of excitement and fun in the first half’s of those seasons and despite the frustration and disappointment of putting our feet up and throwing it away for the rest of the season come January atleast you know the season was coming to an end.

 

This seasons no where near the end but it can’t come soon enough.

[Guy]

On 01/11/2021 at 21:01, KrefelderFox666 said:

Van Aanholt too on loan.

Good call!