Youri Tielemans

[turtmcfly]

There are at least 13 games left (a third of a season). If Man U's lack of pressing in our last game against them is replicated on Saturday it would be the ideal platform to kick off a run of better form. Conversely, if the last third of his season matched the middle third I can't see how anyone can pull the 'class is permanent, form is temporary' stuff, or advocate risking foregoing a transfer fee and at the same time committing to spending 8 million quid a year on him. I'm struggling to see it happening at the moment (my fear is Youri has been to a degree 'found out'), but obviously a strong end to the season would increase interest in him too, which brings me to...

 

The size of any offers in the close season is obviously a big factor in what happens during it. A maximum bid of c. 30 million means we would be foregoing less if we kept him, and increases the possibilty that we could get more for him if he stayed on with an extended contract (and played well!). 45 million or more and it's a much bigger risk to keep him (but again - we can better assess this risk based on the remainder of the season)

 

Finally, the decision will also depend to some degree on how confident we are we have identified suitable replacements/ways of spending any transfer fee and how sure we are we can land them. I'd really like to think the identification bit has been under way for a while.

 

It's a fluid situation, and moreover one the player himself (as long as he's given a chance) can hugely influence. Obviously it's best for everyone (especially the throbbing hindsight merchants) if Youri storms it from now til the end of the year. 

 

That said, I think we need to sell one 'big player' at least this coming window (esp. having not done so last summer). The ideal situation for me is Youri's form has a big upswing/there's a bidding war and we get c. 45 million for him. He's the best fit in terms of 'min loss of bangs/maximum bucks' for me.

 

[MPH]

I have never really understood why players appear to lose focus and or motivation when they want to move on. More often than not it effects their performance on the pitch and  that’s not the best shop window to put yourself in. 
 

if a player truly wants to play for a top team then they need to show they have fire in their belly, they need to show passion and desire and their love for football. The best players in a Team are supposed to stand out and be head and shoulders above the rest.

 

if you sliced a knife through Tielemans career and only showed it from the beginning of this season he wouldn’t really stand out as a special player. Most players can score a Great goal or two in a season but he’s shown very little this year that would motivate bigger teams to choose him as That player they need to perform week in week out AND in the champions league.

Edited 29 March 2022 by MPH

[Webbo]

Whatever the club decide to do, I'm sure it'll be in what they consider to be in the best interests of the club.

 

Whether we eventually regret it or not only the future can tell 

[filbertway]

23 hours ago, Webbo said:

I've been told by somebody who's related to someone privy to a little info that Youri wants 160k a week to stay.

Well that's an easy call if that is the case.

[Stadt]

0.3 xA since Christmas, blimey. Don't think it's all on him because we're quite bad structurally in possession atm but he's just not arsed anymore.

 

 

Depending on how we replace him we're likely going to have more balanced midfield. Ndidi is great physically and defensively but just can't really play, Tielemans can play but can't run so with those two we have quite a rigid midfield. Replacing his passing ability to a similar level but having a much more physical player will be beneficial.

 

It's also a good juncture in his career to sell, he's played 380 games and he's just about to turn 25. Normally when players start so young they have shorter careers.

[AKCJ]

16 minutes ago, Stadt said:

0.3 xA since Christmas, blimey. Don't think it's all on him because we're quite bad structurally in possession atm but he's just not arsed anymore.

 

 

Depending on how we replace him we're likely going to have more balanced midfield. Ndidi is great physically and defensively but just can't really play, Tielemans can play but can't run so with those two we have quite a rigid midfield. Replacing his passing ability to a similar level but having a much more physical player will be beneficial.

 

It's also a good juncture in his career to sell, he's played 380 games and he's just about to turn 25. Normally when players start so young they have shorter careers.

I would argue that he's not in the team to provide goals and assists.

[Stadt]

11 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I would argue that he's not in the team to provide goals and assists.

His main job is ball progression, especially in a 4231 alongside Ndidi, in a 433 less so.

 

Recently his accuracy has shot up whilst the volume of passes has dropped so he's not really doing that at the minute either. https://fbref.com/en/players/56f7a928/matchlogs/2021-2022/passing/Youri-Tielemans-Match-Logs

[Sampson]

15 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Putting him on 160k /week and selling him summer 2023 would likely be more profitable for us than selling him this summer for 30m 

 

But it would never happen because he can leave for free next summer and earn a lot more than £5m doing that (plus bagging 160k/week into the bargain at his next club) 

 

If he really is willing to sign a new deal then I just think it’s not such a stupid financial option for us. Of course that assumes he will recapture his form ……you would expect he would …. Form is temporary, class is permanent ….

 

Every team will be having to watch and potentially cut their wages in 2023. No one will want to match his wages, unless he has a brilliant season next season. Possible but unknown at this point.

 

That’s why it’s not such a straightforward decision. We’d be taking quite a big risk extending his contract and putting him on £160k, which could cripple our options of making any big signings at all in the next couple of seasons.

Edited 29 March 2022 by Sampson

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

Whatever the club decide to do, I'm sure it'll be in what they consider to be in the best interests of the club.

 

Whether we eventually regret it or not only the future can tell 

...pretty much hope that is the case!!!

 It would seem weird if it wasn't. 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

0.3 xA since Christmas, blimey. Don't think it's all on him because we're quite bad structurally in possession atm but he's just not arsed anymore.

 

 

Depending on how we replace him we're likely going to have more balanced midfield. Ndidi is great physically and defensively but just can't really play, Tielemans can play but can't run so with those two we have quite a rigid midfield. Replacing his passing ability to a similar level but having a much more physical player will be beneficial.

 

It's also a good juncture in his career to sell, he's played 380 games and he's just about to turn 25. Normally when players start so young they have shorter careers.

...you do feel it all comes down to the style of football that Rodgers wants to play!!!

 Does he see himself as Klopp or as Pep.

  With a 4-3-3 and a replacement for Youri would be Maddison or someone like Mahmoud Dahoud to give us the needed creativity.

 Maddison has been shoehorned in an Inside Right position which he has been successful in to a degree, but does not afford him to take up the position which allows him to excel. We do need an out and out Right Winger to balance the team so unless Maddison is shifted to the #8 role, then Maddison becomes the odd on out.

In a 4-2-3-1 and Tielemans goes, we will have Wilf and KDH who are independent of each other as Wilf will be sitting  and not venturing up the pitch. Maddison stays as #10, we have Barnes and Tete either side and a flexible striker who can create for himself as well as get on the end of moves, leading the line.

 I suspect that Rodgers will look to go to 4-2-3-1 as his go to formation.

 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

I would argue that he's not in the team to provide goals and assists.

...shhh, don't say that out loud @Ric Flairbelieves that players in his position should be delivering goals and assists!!!

[An Sionnach]

8 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

flexible striker who can create for himself as well as get on the end of moves, leading the line.

I assume by that you mean Daka , otherwise what have we bought him for.

Edited 29 March 2022 by An Sionnach

[Stadt]

3 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...you do feel it all comes down to the style of football that Rodgers wants to play!!!

 Does he see himself as Klopp or as Pep.

  With a 4-3-3 and a replacement for Youri would be Maddison or someone like Mahmoud Dahoud to give us the needed creativity.

 Maddison has been shoehorned in an Inside Right position which he has been successful in to a degree, but does not afford him to take up the position which allows him to excel. We do need an out and out Right Winger to balance the team so unless Maddison is shifted to the #8 role, then Maddison becomes the odd on out.

In a 4-2-3-1 and Tielemans goes, we will have Wilf and KDH who are independent of each other as Wilf will be sitting  and not venturing up the pitch. Maddison stays as #10, we have Barnes and Tete either side and a flexible striker who can create for himself as well as get on the end of moves, leading the line.

 I suspect that Rodgers will look to go to 4-2-3-1 as his go to formation.

 

I'm a huge fan of KDH but I think an Ndidi-KDH pairing probably wouldn't be good enough at distributing the ball around. KDH's strength is his dribbling/carrying ability and his energy. He's not yet shown he can pass the ball at a level close to Tielemans'. Ndidi is at his best at the base of midfield too I feel.

 

Santi Comesana, Amadou Haidara or Mikel Merino profile like the sort of midfielders we need. Can't say I've ever watched much of them though.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

8 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...shhh, don't say that out loud @Ric Flairbelieves that players in his position should be delivering goals and assists!!!

They absolutely should if the balance isn't right elsewhere. For example, you can afford to have to 2 central midfielders who don't score or assist as long as you have 2 wingers and an ACM supporting the striker with goals and assists, otherwise its very difficult to see where the 60+ league goals a season are going to come from that is usually required to challenge for top 6. It puts a huge onus on the defence to be very very robust.

 

It's a fine balance. Tielemans even during bad seasons by his standards will chip in with 5-10 goal contributions though which is adequate with our obvious weakness on the right. 

[sacreblueits442]

Just now, An Sionnach said:

I assume by that you mean Daka , otherwise what have bought him for.

...big question mark at the moment regarding his suitability for the team!!!

   We will have to make changes as to the service we give him as he loves to get onto the ball played out infront of him. He has a knack of finishing chances but I can't see him working in a front three and unless we are effectively pressing then he will not have the support around him that he needs as a lone striker in a  4-2-3-1.

 De Ketelaere can play as a striker but more suited as a second striker or could play the false 9 with his skill on the ball. He could threaten the backline with his height and come deeper to link the play. I am not sure why Club Brugge have chosen to play him as a inside right at the moment, neither party is seeing any benefit in this situation at this moment. 

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, turtmcfly said:

There are at least 13 games left (a third of a season). If Man U's lack of pressing in our last game against them is replicated on Saturday it would be the ideal platform to kick off a run of better form. Conversely, if the last third of his season matched the middle third I can't see how anyone can pull the 'class is permanent, form is temporary' stuff, or advocate risking foregoing a transfer fee and at the same time committing to spending 8 million quid a year on him. I'm struggling to see it happening at the moment (my fear is Youri has been to a degree 'found out'), but obviously a strong end to the season would increase interest in him too, which brings me to...

 

The size of any offers in the close season is obviously a big factor in what happens during it. A maximum bid of c. 30 million means we would be foregoing less if we kept him, and increases the possibilty that we could get more for him if he stayed on with an extended contract (and played well!). 45 million or more and it's a much bigger risk to keep him (but again - we can better assess this risk based on the remainder of the season)

 

Finally, the decision will also depend to some degree on how confident we are we have identified suitable replacements/ways of spending any transfer fee and how sure we are we can land them. I'd really like to think the identification bit has been under way for a while.

 

It's a fluid situation, and moreover one the player himself (as long as he's given a chance) can hugely influence. Obviously it's best for everyone (especially the throbbing hindsight merchants) if Youri storms it from now til the end of the year. 

 

That said, I think we need to sell one 'big player' at least this coming window (esp. having not done so last summer). The ideal situation for me is Youri's form has a big upswing/there's a bidding war and we get c. 45 million for him. He's the best fit in terms of 'min loss of bangs/maximum bucks' for me.

 

I wish someone will explain ,when they use this tame statement... 'he/we have been found out'.....

Every other Team knows how the others play at This level, including plans A,B etc...They will know Major & alternate channels, change of triangles, or movement.

Dont People see L'pool , Man.city,Chelsea know each other....The question is what you got on the day,Stronger gameday mental discipline & that individual or team's bit of extra on the day...Then Simply slogging it out..

Plus Youri's decision to Stay or go, nobody can guess. I dont Think he follows what some consider the normal..

 

[sacreblueits442]

9 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Dont People see L'pool , Man.city,Chelsea know each other....The question is what you got on the day,Stronger gameday mental discipline & that individual or team's bit of extra on the day...Then Simply slogging it out..

...I  would suspect most managers think that way and hope teams like Man. City drop 15% below their level, and on the day they are 20% above their own !!!

  We all know what to expect against Man. City, most supporters coming up against them see it as a free hit. A flat back 5 against them with 4 across the middle with little space to play between the lines, and playing on the counter is the way to deal with them. 

  We chose to take them on and we're 4 goals down, in no time, because we erroneously chose to play into their hands. Eventually we got back into the game and morphed into flat 5 and countered them.

  It is all very well knowing how the opposition is going to play, but if you do nothing to counteract it, then that is your problem. 

[turtmcfly]

11 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I wish someone will explain ,when they use this tame statement... 'he/we have been found out'.....

Every other Team knows how the others play at This level, including plans A,B etc...They will know Major & alternate channels, change of triangles, or movement.

Dont People see L'pool , Man.city,Chelsea know each other....The question is what you got on the day,Stronger gameday mental discipline & that individual or team's bit of extra on the day...Then Simply slogging it out..

Plus Youri's decision to Stay or go, nobody can guess. I dont Think he follows what some consider the normal..

 

 

I didn't say 'we' have been found out (not that that in itself a comment on whether I think we have). And me saying he might have been 'found out' (I also used inverted commas in the original post to indicate I wasn't being literal) is probably better described as 'perhaps spotted as a fairly easy player to negate'. It's not a great idea for a team to allow Youri plenty of uncontested time on the ball - and he has very rarely had that this year. Whether that's him being specifically targetted, our midfield in general being seen as easy to get at (and e.g. Ndidi not playing up to his usual strengths), the team in general being average for whatever reason... I don't know. Which is why I couch all of it in 'perhapses' and 'maybes'.  

 

My point is that whereas a lot (most?) people seem to think Youri is struggling this year mainly due to lack of effort, I don't think that's the case. Or in other words, I don't think him improving in the last third of the year simply requires him to 'try harder'.

 

As for 'Youri's decision to Stay or go, nobody can guess'. Well, sure. But my post purposely ignored Youri's side of the decision. It was a response to the claim that his opening request is '160K/week to stay'

 

 

[Webbo]

2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...pretty much hope that is the case!!!

 It would seem weird if it wasn't. 

Im just laying down a marker.

 

If he signs and flops it'll be "why did they pay all that money?". 

If he leaves it'll be because of Brendan's ego or some dreamt up fight. 

If stays and thrives it'll be despite Brendan. 

 

I just want to be on the record. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

The angle of dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, turtmcfly said:

 

I didn't say 'we' have been found out (not that that in itself a comment on whether I think we have). And me saying he might have been 'found out' (I also used inverted commas in the original post to indicate I wasn't being literal) is probably better described as 'perhaps spotted as a fairly easy player to negate'. It's not a great idea for a team to allow Youri plenty of uncontested time on the ball - and he has very rarely had that this year. Whether that's him being specifically targetted, our midfield in general being seen as easy to get at (and e.g. Ndidi not playing up to his usual strengths), the team in general being average for whatever reason... I don't know. Which is why I couch all of it in 'perhapses' and 'maybes'.  

 

My point is that whereas a lot (most?) people seem to think Youri is struggling this year mainly due to lack of effort, I don't think that's the case. Or in other words, I don't think him improving in the last third of the year simply requires him to 'try harder'.

 

As for 'Youri's decision to Stay or go, nobody can guess'. Well, sure. But my post purposely ignored Youri's side of the decision. It was a response to the claim that his opening request is '160K/week to stay'

 

 

Fair dues...

[Elvis hammond]

Youri has been class for us at times but he has bad games in my opinion he is class but he isnt a world beater he has no pace and gives the ball away alot  he is very weak and sometimes in my opinion a liability but saying that his moments for us have been amazing for us 

[Mike Oxlong]

57 minutes ago, Elvis hammond said:

Youri has been class for us at times but he has bad games in my opinion he is class but he isnt a world beater he has no pace and gives the ball away alot  he is very weak and sometimes in my opinion a liability but saying that his moments for us have been amazing for us 

 

[Simoken]

12 hours ago, Elvis hammond said:

Youri has been class for us at times but he has bad games in my opinion he is class but he isnt a world beater he has no pace and gives the ball away alot  he is very weak and sometimes in my opinion a liability but saying that his moments for us have been amazing for us 

'In my opinion i think my opinion is opinionated because its my opition, opinion, and opinion. k thanks

[moore_94]

Asking price of £25m according to Percy…

 

Could still stay and then leave on a free though

Edited 31 March 2022 by moore_94