Ukraine

[BlueSi13]

Looks like we are entering a new, darker phase of the war.  After plans A and B ended in carnage and farce for the Russians, looks like Putin is moving to plan C, the indiscriminate targeting and bombing of civilians.  Russia's true MO.  Tried and tested in Syria and Chechnya.  

 

So far it looks random, probably a warning to the Ukrainians whilst the negotiations are ongoing.  But if the Russian army continues to fail miserably in the field then I'm sad to say I can see Putin resorting to levelling the major population centres and trying to break the Ukrainian spirit that way.  

 

At this point it's looking all or nothing for Putin, the world has turned on him, Russia is completely isolated.  His economy is going down so fast it's breaking the sound barrier.  

 

No doubt he will try and install a siege mentality to save his hide and as part of that I expect him to lash out unless Ukraine yield in negotiations (which looks far from likely at this point).

 

Ukraine is desperate for strong anti-air weaponry and aircraft/drones.  We haven't heard much about the allies shipping that sort of weaponry out but I wonder if that will be happening behind closed doors.  Ukraine needs to be able to shoot jets/bombers down.  If they can do that on the regular then Putin may be all out of options.

[Countryfox]

4 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

 

 

Ukraine is desperate for strong anti-air weaponry and aircraft/drones.  We haven't heard much about the allies shipping that sort of weaponry out but I wonder if that will be happening behind closed doors.  

Without doubt ..

[BlueSi13]

3 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Tbh, and not wishing to be contrary, I don't think our armed forces have helped maintain my freedom on any way. 

 

They had a decent run in Kosovo and Sierra Leone- but neither conflict threatened the UK. 

 

They were a shambles in Basra and kandahar, (throwing sweets at kids)... in both cases the easiest gig gifted to us by the yanks (so it looked like a coalition ) and in both cases, we had to have the yanks bail.us out as they couldn't cope

To be fair I think the poster was referring to our grandfathers generation who fought Hitler.  They truly were the greatest generation by every conceivable measure.

 

I think they would genuinely despair at the state of our armed forces now like the rest of us.  Our standing army would comfortably fit inside Wembley with thousands of spare seats and the number of fighter pilots could fit on 2 double decker buses.  It's dangerously, pathetically small.  Run down by successive governments for decades.  This must be reversed ASAP whilst we have men like Xi and Putin wanting any excuse to throw their weight around. 

[st albans fox]

‘Monday's peace talks were held against the backdrop of continued Russian bombardment of Ukrainian cities, he added.

He also condemned Russia's role in the United Nations, saying that a country that commits war crimes should not be permitted to hold a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.’

 

he hasn’t heard of China then ……

 

and plenty of countries around the world would say the same of the USA …

[yorkie1999]

29 minutes ago, Line-X said:

The launches and deployment have been quite spectacular over the last two years.

I think there’s more to starlink than we imagine

[Wymsey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60557073

 

Good; found the adverts silly anyway.

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

To be fair I think the poster was referring to our grandfathers generation who fought Hitler.  They truly were the greatest generation by every conceivable measure.

 

I think they would genuinely despair at the state of our armed forces now like the rest of us.  Our standing army would comfortably fit inside Wembley with thousands of spare seats and the number of fighter pilots could fit on 2 double decker buses.  It's dangerously, pathetically small.  Run down by successive governments for decades.  This must be reversed ASAP whilst we have men like Xi and Putin wanting any excuse to throw their weight around. 

I’m not sure, I think they felt they were fighting a war to end wars.

[FOXYTALK]

What happened to the war Thread? 

[Guest Lako42]

2 minutes ago, FOXYTALK said:

What happened to the war Thread? 

I'm guessing people couldn't help making it a personal slagging match. 

[MPH]

It’s a real shame as that whole thread has stayed very civil for many many pages..

[Flamey]

2 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

I'm guessing people couldn't help making it a personal slagging match. 

So why not punish the posters instead of the thread? 🤔

[urban.spaceman]

8 minutes ago, Flamey said:

So why not punish the posters instead of the thread? 🤔

You might have noticed some posters weren’t seen for a couple of days….

[MPH]

So who started throwing around the insults?

[st albans fox]

Just saw an interesting discussion on newsnight 

 

ex military guy making the point that if the Russian army really do start using heavy weapons indiscriminately on the Ukrainian cities then western public opinion will ensure that NATO have to get involved aerially at least. we will simply not allow our armed forces to stand idly by whilst fellow Europeans are slaughtered in their homes …..

 

The next 48 hours will really count ……hopefully the Russians follow a strategy where they encircle the cities and play the long game 

[The Horse's Mouth]

39 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

‘Monday's peace talks were held against the backdrop of continued Russian bombardment of Ukrainian cities, he added.

He also condemned Russia's role in the United Nations, saying that a country that commits war crimes should not be permitted to hold a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.’

 

he hasn’t heard of China then ……

 

and plenty of countries around the world would say the same of the USA …

We're not allowed to hold China to account though 

[The Horse's Mouth]

34 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60557073

 

Good; found the adverts silly anyway.

**** me

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

We're not allowed to hold China to account though 

not whilst they only kill people within their borders ……(yeah i know about Tibet )

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

not whilst they only kill people within their borders ……(yeah i know about Tibet )

yet , I mean I get the fear for Russia but China is the one that is genuinely a scary prospect.

[MPH]

34 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Just saw an interesting discussion on newsnight 

 

ex military guy making the point that if the Russian army really do start using heavy weapons indiscriminately on the Ukrainian cities then western public opinion will ensure that NATO have to get involved aerially at least. we will simply not allow our armed forces to stand idly by whilst fellow Europeans are slaughtered in their homes …..

 

The next 48 hours will really count ……hopefully the Russians follow a strategy where they encircle the cities and play the long game 

 

I don’t think they can afford to play the long game. The longer it takes the more supplies we can get to the Ukrainians and the more battle hardened  and battle wise the ‘ home

army’ will become. Besides, their economy needs this dealt with quickly. The quicker they can enter negotiations ( on their terms) the quicker they can start negotiating back some of the sanctions.

 

 

I said this a couple of days ago in the war thread, if Russia don’t get their way, expect some heavy missiles to start coming into the battle

Edited 28 February 2022 by MPH

[marbles]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mikhail-fridman-and-oleg-deripaska-call-for-an-end-to-putin-s-war/ar-AAUpIYh?ocid=uxbndlbing
 

Looks like a couple Russian billionaires might be worried how much the sanctions will cost them 

[HighPeakFox]

54 minutes ago, MPH said:

So who started throwing around the insults?

I could take a guess around which poster the problem centred, but it would only be speculation.

[Mike Oxlong]

I’m grateful and sympathetic to the difficult exercise of discretion that those running the forum have to apply on a frequent basis to ensure good order and appropriate discussion on here but I’m disappointed that by removing the whole War thread FT seeks to exercise greater censorship than that applied against even the likes of RT. 

 

Surely this subject is too important to not be discussed generally, including on here.

 

My polite request to those in charge is by all means take appropriate measures against  individuals but please don’t act in a way to restrict discussion and debate on something that really does put most other things into perspective.

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

‘Monday's peace talks were held against the backdrop of continued Russian bombardment of Ukrainian cities, he added.

He also condemned Russia's role in the United Nations, saying that a country that commits war crimes should not be permitted to hold a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.’

 

he hasn’t heard of China then ……

 

and plenty of countries around the world would say the same of the USA …

Over the past few days I've had a few contacts from that neck of the woods trying to explain a more 'pro-Russian', as I took it, perspective to me. I have to say that they were better-informed than I expected and, to an extent, balanced in their arguments. However, they very much focused their argument on the hypocrisy of other countries rather than on any serious justification of Russia's actions. I thought that was telling.

 

But I did wonder how many other nations, depending on which way the political wind was blowing, might respond to having a significant percentage of a neighbouring country's population which considers itself - and the country - to be theirs. If, on top of that, you consider the historical connection between Russia and Ukraine (200 years or so as part of either the Empire or the USSR, unless I'm mistaken), and the nature of the grievances coming from the part of the population which identifies as Ukrainian-Russian (bearing in mind it's only seven or eight years since they were in a Civil War), then you can start to see how there's a different take on this, even among rational-thinking people.

 

When I say 'different take on this', that doesn't mean you can frame the invasion itself in anything other than condemnatory terms. This was destined to be a PR disaster for Putin on the global stage because, while their gripes with the West and the Ukraine may not entirely be the stuff of a lunatic's deranged imagination (or, alternatively, a pretext for reassembling the Russian Empire), they still don't come close to warranting his actions. Those actions leave us with five endgames now, and the best and the worst are the least likely: Putin is quickly overthrown; Putin avoids humiliation by annihilating much of Eastern Europe, Putin is allowed to present himself as successful while withdrawing from most of the Ukraine, Putin conquers Ukraine and stops there, or all-out World War. I honestly can't see him retreating to Russia, humbled, and slowly fading out, as most of us might wish. He's going to have to be the hero, or gone.

Edited 28 February 2022 by inckley fox

[Buzzell]

Who’s been kicking off then? 

[Lambert09]

no war allowed in the war thread?