Ukraine

[ClaphamFox]

14 minutes ago, Sampson said:

The West/NATO won't intervene militarily as as soon as it does that's essentially WW3 and potentially nuclear war.

The west is already supplying weapons, intelligence and tactical guidance, so is already quite heavily involved. If Russia succeeds in overtrhowing the Ukranian government, I've no doubt the west will continue to fund and provide weapons to the Ukranian resistance movement.

 

It is true if NATO puts soldiers on the ground or planes in the air it would be crossing the Rubicon, which is why it hasn't happened yet. However, if is is clear that the Russians are killing large numbers of Ukranians indiscriminately, that could change. 

[Fox1norfolk]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

NATO are not going to get involved in a direct war with Russia unless Russia attacks a NATO member directly and deliberately.

As the sanctions start to hurt Russia it will retaliate with its own, namely cutting off the gas it supplies to Germany, in the region of 50%. How did the German government (Merkel) ever agree to this deal.   

[surrifox]

5 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

As the sanctions start to hurt Russia it will retaliate with its own, namely cutting off the gas it supplies to Germany, in the region of 50%. How did the German government (Merkel) ever agree to this deal.   

they are victims of "trying to do the right thing"- reducing reliance on nuclear power stations. The wholesale switch to gas and its over reliance on Russian supply may force them to return to coal burning in the medium term. As a lot of their coal is lignite which ( as I understand it) is filthy stuff and much more harmful than coal they are in a bit of a bind

[WigstonWanderer]

I notice the original War thread is back, albeit locked

[Innovindil]

12 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

As the sanctions start to hurt Russia it will retaliate with its own, namely cutting off the gas it supplies to Germany, in the region of 50%. How did the German government (Merkel) ever agree to this deal.   

Cut off one of your few remaining sources of income? Would be a strange move. 

[goody2028]

 

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, goody2028 said:

 

 

Never ever had anything remotely like the hatred I have for Putin. I would pay very good money to see him tortured

[String fellow]

32 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

As the sanctions start to hurt Russia it will retaliate with its own, namely cutting off the gas it supplies to Germany, in the region of 50%. How did the German government (Merkel) ever agree to this deal.   

According to Mad Vlad, the sanctions are illegal. If he's worried about legal issues, maybe he needs to think about the war crimes he himself is committing.

[urban.spaceman]

Lavrov chatting shit and trying to justify the war.

[Guest kristianity77]

Personally I think Russia over the next couple of weeks will no doubt take over Ukraine.  The rest of the world just needs to help how it can in taking in the millions of people who have left.

 

Then, once thats sorted, just cut off Russia from literally everything.  Keep the no fly zones, dont allow Russians to travel anywhere, civilians, politicians, no one.   Cut them off completely from all the world banking etc.  Let them rot from the inside.   It can be done without a single bullet being fired from any country other than Ukraine. 

[Fox1norfolk]

3 minutes ago, kristianity77 said:

Personally I think Russia over the next couple of weeks will no doubt take over Ukraine.  The rest of the world just needs to help how it can in taking in the millions of people who have left.

 

Then, once thats sorted, just cut off Russia from literally everything.  Keep the no fly zones, dont allow Russians to travel anywhere, civilians, politicians, no one.   Cut them off completely from all the world banking etc.  Let them rot from the inside.   It can be done without a single bullet being fired from any country other than Ukraine. 

The North Korea of Europe

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

The North Korea of Europe

This would very likely bring about Putin's downfall. There's no way either the rich elites or ordinary Russians would put up with the kind of economic hardship that pariah nation status would bring. The last thing they want is the iron curtain being drawn across their borders again. 

 

By the way, for anybody interested in learning more about the history of Ukraine and about Putin's warped reasons for thinking the invasion is justified, Radio Four hosted a very good discussion this morning. Worth a listen if you have half an hour...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0015bgf

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Trumpet said:

I don’t think an intervention in terms of direct conflict can happen, it’d be catastrophic. Not to say what’s happening in Ukraine isn’t catastrophic, mind.

And there's the rub, because (as we did for Poland) when an atrocity is happening before your eyes, there comes a point where you have to stand up and be counted.

 

Like with wanting Rodgers out, we'll all get there at one point or another apart from those who cling on to a delusion of things turning out for the best despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm at that stage; Putin out. A 40-mile convoy is begging to be on the receiving end of multiple missile strikes.

 

Unless the free world acts, innocents will die in their thousands, cities will be crushed, democracy will be put under the sword, and then Putin will look to new territories. You can't reason with a tyrant who uses polonium and novichok internationally with gay abandon. You can't place limits on a ruthless leader in search of an empire.

 

The price of procrastination are the bodies of innocents. The mistakes of inaction in other places is no justification not to act now. 

 

It's time.

[adam]

 

[adam]

I think the time has come that Nato need to do more. We cannot just stand by and just watch this. If that Russian Convoy turns up in Kiev it will be absolutely brutal. 

[weller54]

14 minutes ago, adam said:

 

Good God 😢😢

[Zear0]

14 minutes ago, adam said:

 

Did he give a reasonable answer or did he default to vaccine rollout?

[The whole world smiles]

3 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Did he give a reasonable answer or did he default to vaccine rollout?

Aparently in 2010 Labour left a note that there was no money left. 

[ClaphamFox]

10 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Did he give a reasonable answer or did he default to vaccine rollout?

From Sky News:

 

Mr Johnson replied: "I'm glad you have been able to get here, and I just want to say I am acutely conscious that there is not enough that we can do to help in the way that you want, and I have to be honest about that.

"When you talk about the no fly zone… unfortunately the implication of that is that the UK would be engaged in shooting down Russian planes, that's not something that we can do.

"I think the consequences of that would be truly very difficult to control."

The PM said he cannot "pretend" that this is something the UK can fix by military means.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

From Sky News:

 

Mr Johnson replied: "I'm glad you have been able to get here, and I just want to say I am acutely conscious that there is not enough that we can do to help in the way that you want, and I have to be honest about that.

"When you talk about the no fly zone… unfortunately the implication of that is that the UK would be engaged in shooting down Russian planes, that's not something that we can do.

"I think the consequences of that would be truly very difficult to control."

The PM said he cannot "pretend" that this is something the UK can fix by military means.

Really? That sounds almost sensible. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

From Sky News:

 

Mr Johnson replied: "I'm glad you have been able to get here, and I just want to say I am acutely conscious that there is not enough that we can do to help in the way that you want, and I have to be honest about that.

"When you talk about the no fly zone… unfortunately the implication of that is that the UK would be engaged in shooting down Russian planes, that's not something that we can do.

"I think the consequences of that would be truly very difficult to control."

The PM said he cannot "pretend" that this is something the UK can fix by military means.

Wow, I'm actually impressed

[urban.spaceman]

These speeches in the Ep are ****ing heartbreaking

[bovril]

Christ, Johnson actually says something sensible

[Countryfox]

NATO is purely defensive so cannot act against attacks on non NAO countries ..  end of.  Individual countries or a group of countries can act but they would be potentially committing suicide against this madman. 

[chapero82]

I don’t see how this ends without it turning into a world war tbh