Ukraine

[Countryfox]

What we can do as say the UK the EU and the USA is plough weapons into the country that will make an impact .. eg anti tank anti aircraft and drones which would have a big impact on his columns of vehicles. 

[Nalis]

23 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

From Sky News:

 

Mr Johnson replied: "I'm glad you have been able to get here, and I just want to say I am acutely conscious that there is not enough that we can do to help in the way that you want, and I have to be honest about that.

"When you talk about the no fly zone… unfortunately the implication of that is that the UK would be engaged in shooting down Russian planes, that's not something that we can do.

"I think the consequences of that would be truly very difficult to control."

The PM said he cannot "pretend" that this is something the UK can fix by military means.

Dont like him but thats pretty much it in a nutshell. We're in an impossible scenario.

[MPH]

5 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

And you’ll see from my earlier post that I recognise and appreciate the contribution of those who manage the forum 

 

However, on this occasion I believe that the better approach would be to delete offending posts or even pages without removing the whole thread. There was a lot of good material and discussion and information and opinions that should have remained accessible. I can’t believe that the work to remove offending posts or relevant pages was so much more onerous to merit losing the entirety of the thread’s content. Normally I’d take no issue with the broad brush approach but not in this case. 

 

i do see you point. I really do.

 

 

but the war thread is just one thread. There’s loads that are  monitored on a daily basis.

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, chapero82 said:

I don’t see how this ends without it turning into a world war tbh 

He will get Ukraine ..  and we strengthen the border between him and the rest of the west and help the refugees as best we can. We take sanctions to the limit and hope that a combination of that and the Russians losing their sons in this war brings about a change of regime. The only problem is that Putin has become a monster and nobody knows what the fvck he might do. 

[Blarmy]

Can’t special forces from multiple countries get in there? I fully understand that we cannot overtly get involved, so how about covertly? It’s what special forces do - have an impact without needing external communications or supplies.

 

Apologies it this comes off as naive but watching this unfold is distressing. 

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Just make sure someone tells Biden not to leave them all there for the Russians to grab when we're done

That’s a potential big problem ..  he will use that to show his people that ‘the West’ was involved and that won’t help turn them against him. 

[Finnaldo]

Have the Russians halted any boots-on-the-ground fighting and resorted purely to bombardment then? It’s been rather quiet in terms of any advancements or firefights. Waiting for their newest convoy to turn up?

[Countryfox]

3 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Can’t special forces from multiple countries get in there? I fully understand that we cannot overtly get involved, so how about covertly? It’s what special forces do - have an impact without needing external communications or supplies.

 

Apologies it this comes off as naive but watching this unfold is distressing. 

They may well be doing that but as per my post above there are some serious implications if they are caught. 

[Greg2607]

14 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

He will get Ukraine ..  and we strengthen the border between him and the rest of the west and help the refugees as best we can. We take sanctions to the limit and hope that a combination of that and the Russians losing their sons in this war brings about a change of regime. The only problem is that Putin has become a monster and nobody knows what the fvck he might do. 

the 2nd problem is no-one knows who comes next.... let's not forget that the levels and depths of sanctions and subsequent impacts imposed on Germany after WWI led to rise of a certain Adolf Hitler.  

 

That didn't end overly well. 

Edited 1 March 2022 by Greg2607

[VLC86]

19 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I don’t see how this ends without it turning into a world war tbh 

One very stupid decision by 1 person. A stray missile, a lunatic etc. 

 

What feels depressingly shit is how Putin has got us all over a barrel and Ukraine are suffering horrendously as a result. In an ideal worth the weight of the other countries stops Russia but in reality we would all be ****ed.

[Greg2607]

2 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Cut off one of your few remaining sources of income? Would be a strange move. 

well they sell the majority of their gas to China, so they would probably just sell more of it to them.  They also have over £400bn in cash reserves.  They aren't in this for the short Haul.  This is game theory playing out in the real world. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

23 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I don’t see how this ends without it turning into a world war tbh 

Think we're far away from that, but it will all depend on when Ukraine falls, the NATO reaction as well as the other countries on the border. If talks of Finland and the like wanting to gain access to NATO then it will likely turn into a world war 

[Buzzell]

1 hour ago, kristianity77 said:

Personally I think Russia over the next couple of weeks will no doubt take over Ukraine.  The rest of the world just needs to help how it can in taking in the millions of people who have left.

 

Then, once thats sorted, just cut off Russia from literally everything.  Keep the no fly zones, dont allow Russians to travel anywhere, civilians, politicians, no one.   Cut them off completely from all the world banking etc.  Let them rot from the inside.   It can be done without a single bullet being fired from any country other than Ukraine. 

Literally send them back to the Stone Age.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, adam said:

 

Powerful and emotional, but Johnson’s rational response is more important imo.

 

Anyone who genuinely thinks we should employ a no fly zone, or engage militarily;

 

a) Proves Putin’s point that the West wants to militarily dominate Russia.

b) is advocating a declaration of war against Russia, which again would make us more insane than anything Putin has done. 

[casablancas]

23 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Can’t special forces from multiple countries get in there? I fully understand that we cannot overtly get involved, so how about covertly? It’s what special forces do - have an impact without needing external communications or supplies.

 

Apologies it this comes off as naive but watching this unfold is distressing. 

I’d imagine there’s some already in Russia. But he’s in his lair. 

[Fazzer 7]

28 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I don’t see how this ends without it turning into a world war tbh 

Are we looking at annexing part of the Country of Ukraine, The East possibly, and handing it to the Russians. God knows! 

[Lionator]

5 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Think we're far away from that, but it will all depend on when Ukraine falls, the NATO reaction as well as the other countries on the border. If talks of Finland and the like wanting to gain access to NATO then it will likely turn into a world war 

NATO aren’t getting involved. Its a non starter. It’s going to be a hard watch but that’s all we can do.

[MPH]

20 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Have the Russians halted any boots-on-the-ground fighting and resorted purely to bombardment then? It’s been rather quiet in terms of any advancements or firefights. Waiting for their newest convoy to turn up?

 

I get the feeling that the first few days where all about preparing for  this big colum that’s going to come in.. there was a lot of talk about the age and state of disrepair of some of the Russian military equipment… from Putin’s  point of view  it makes sense that the crap equipment gets sent in first for the Ukrainians to use their Ammo up on…

[The Horse's Mouth]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

NATO aren’t getting involved. Its a non starter. It’s going to be a hard watch but that’s all we can do.

I didn't actually say that, Ukraine is a lost cause at this stage. It's whether they attempt to expand with the other countries along the border, I think that'll be the point of escalation that would lead to a full on world war 

[Trumpet]

We need to do all we can now to ensure those fleeing the conflict have a safe place to go. Not sure how that’s done, but there should be no red tape surrounding it. 

Edited 1 March 2022 by Trumpet

[Lionator]

Just now, The Horse's Mouth said:

I didn't actually say that, Ukraine is a lost cause at this stage. It's whether they attempt to expand with the other countries along the border, I think that'll be the point of escalation that would lead to a full on world war 

I’d guess it’s quite unlikely. They’ll take Ukraine and then completely turn east and draw an iron curtain on the west. They’ll have their buffer between nato and themselves (besides some unthreatening Baltic states). 

[Pliskin]

31 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I don’t see how this ends without it turning into a world war tbh 

It won’t. The politics of war are not the same as they were 100 years ago. You simply can’t just drop bombs on other countries without causing major issues for your self. 
 

Russia and Ukraine have been at each other throats for years, and years. If you don’t follow the politics of the two nations closely you probably won’t really notice. (Not that I do because I don’t). What seems like a decision made over night, isn’t, it’s been in the pipe like for years. 
 

It won’t get to the stage of a world war because Russia have essentially ended that by making the claims they have regarding nuclear defence. 
 

Russia will ultimately fail, whether that’s this year or in 20 years time, this is an incident that could last decades before it’s resolved. 

[thursday_next]

I have just seen on Sky News a poll which says 66% of US voters are in favour of sanctions against Russia. What happened to the other 34%, I have to ask? 

[ClaphamFox]

5 minutes ago, Lionator said:

NATO aren’t getting involved. Its a non starter. It’s going to be a hard watch but that’s all we can do.

NATO is already heavily involved. The supply of weapons, and the provision of intelligence and tactical guidance, counts as being involved. The Ukrainian military has confirmed that British anti-tank missiles have destroyed Russian tanks. Obviously a NATO soldier killing a Russian soldier or a NATO plane shooting down a Russian plane would mean NATO would be directly at war with Russia rather than indirectly at war, which is the current situation.

If Russia wasn't a nuclear power, the no-fly zone that Ukraine wants would probably be in place and NATO soldiers might already be on the ground. But unfortunately Russia is a nuclear power, so that's the reality we have to deal with.

[David Hankey]

The Kremlin states they are not targeting civilians.

 

Given the carnage we are seeing on our TV screens does this mean Putin has no control over his military?

 

We already know he can't be trusted.