sacreblueits442 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 14 hours ago, ALC Fox said: He's been crap since we signed his best mate (Under) and then barely played him. Understandable at the time as Cengiz wasn't at the level we needed but it could somewhat explain Cags' dropoff. Thinking about it though, did he ever have that aggression to defend and attack set-pieces even at his best? He had the petulance and combustible nature (e.g. the Bournemouth debacle) but did he ever have that controlled desire? It was easy when he could stroll through games and flick the ball over players' heads and stride forward with the ball but I'm not sure the donkey work comes easy to him, despite him looking like a Roman centurion. ....we have taken the aggression out of his game!!! He was a potential liability when he first came here, he would look to go through players from behind, and it was just ridiculous what he was attempting to do. We no doubt worked on that element of his game while Maguire was still here and the season on the training ground refined his method of defending. Benkovic was at the same time sent to Celtic and I had, at that time, viewed him (Benkovic) as the better option to get into the first team due to Soyuncu tendencies. I am not sure if Soyuncu does not feel compromised in his position at the moment, and wants to express himself more, on the pitch, and not become as regimented in how he is now being asked to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 8 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said: ....we have taken the aggression out of his game!!! He was a potential liability when he first came here, he would look to go through players from behind, and it was just ridiculous what he was attempting to do. We no doubt worked on that element of his game while Maguire was still here and the season on the training ground refined his method of defending. Benkovic was at the same time sent to Celtic and I had, at that time, viewed him (Benkovic) as the better option to get into the first team due to Soyuncu tendencies. I am not sure if Soyuncu does not feel compromised in his position at the moment, and wants to express himself more, on the pitch, and not become as regimented in how he is now being asked to play. I just don't think he's been asked to be regimented. Look how Wes played the other day, charging forward, Soy just hasn't done that in a long time. He's always been a player who tried to be risky and a lot of the time, was more careless than needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 1 minute ago, UniFox21 said: I just don't think he's been asked to be regimented. Look how Wes played the other day, charging forward, Soy just hasn't done that in a long time. He's always been a player who tried to be risky and a lot of the time, was more careless than needed. .....Wes taking the ball up the pitch means Soyuncu needs to be the holding defender!!! That would have to have been agreed prior to coming out on the pitch, and Wes needed to be reigned in a little, because he was being too aggressive and impetuous and I do not think he would have played like that had Evans been on the pitch. What I meant with being regimented is an inability for him to be himself on the pitch, always knowing that he cannot do what he instinctively wants to do, is going to wear down your enthusiasm to compete or wanting to stay in an environment that does not make you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arriba Los Zorros Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 I still think he's a really good defender, one of those who will go on to excel elsewhere. Would rather we give him a chance under another manager to be honest... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman's Wharfer Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 Saw an analogy of best central defensive partnerships containing the dog and the cat. The dog is impulsive and jumps in to try and beat their man to the ball, often with aggression. The cat sits back, is calm and calculated, drops off and favours interceptions over heading and tackling and is often good on the ball. There are numerous instances of this type of role in top class central defensive pairings: Vidic (dog) & Ferdinand (cat) and Terry (dog) & Carvalho (cat) for example. Soyuncu is a dog and when he doesn’t have the cat (Evans) next to him, holding him tight on a leash, he is overzealous and unpredictable. But even through the pain of making several mistakes, he still hasn’t learned how to reign himself in. Someone will pay for him based on reputation built playing next to Evans and he’ll be the next in a list containing Morgan and Maguire before him that were made to look better than they were with Evans alongside them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weller Wing Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 Might be best for all if he moved on bit I still feel there's a talent there. A prime Maldini would look shit playing alongside Big Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 4 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said: I still think he's a really good defender, one of those who will go on to excel elsewhere. Would rather we give him a chance under another manager to be honest... ....he could very well end up going back to Germany, find his mojo and get picked up by one of the big boys!!! Premier League experience, is good on his CV but with Under on loan, at Marseilles, he might just see his life at such a team with great support and pedigree, and perhaps not the isolation that he perhaps feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 9 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said: Soyuncu is a dog and when he doesn’t have the cat (Evans) next to him, holding him tight on a leash, he is overzealous and unpredictable. But even through the pain of making several mistakes, he still hasn’t learned how to reign himself in. Someone will pay for him based on reputation built playing next to Evans and he’ll be the next in a list containing Morgan and Maguire before him that were made to look better than they were with Evans alongside them. ....this seems to go away from Rodgers alluding that he is not brave or aggressive enough!!! Evans does make players beside him better, because he organises the backline and imparts confidence that there will be cover should you get turned by an attacker or misjudge an interception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 On the assumption that Jonny will be unavailable for many matches next season. Who partners Fofana? A speculative, cheap (under £20 million) replacement. Vestergaard, Amartey or who?. An inexperienced pair with an ageing goalkeeper behind them does not sound secure to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 1 hour ago, An Sionnach said: On the assumption that Jonny will be unavailable for many matches next season. Who partners Fofana? A speculative, cheap (under £20 million) replacement. Vestergaard, Amartey or who?. An inexperienced pair with an ageing goalkeeper behind them does not sound secure to me. Thats the reality of the future isnt it? We've known for ages Evans cant carry on at this pace in every game so we should be planning for Fofana's future partner. Either the board think we already have him but if not then they need to buy someone in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slymunn Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 25 minutes ago, Nalis said: Thats the reality of the future isnt it? We've known for ages Evans cant carry on at this pace in every game so we should be planning for Fofana's future partner. Either the board think we already have him but if not then they need to buy someone in the summer. Tarkowski, Ginter, Denayer all on frees and linked before (I believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes96 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 35 minutes ago, Nalis said: Thats the reality of the future isnt it? We've known for ages Evans cant carry on at this pace in every game so we should be planning for Fofana's future partner. Either the board think we already have him but if not then they need to buy someone in the summer. In an ideal world we’d get 2 in. A younger up and comer to replace Fofana when he leaves in a year or two for £100 million. And an Evans future replacement/ alternative. Although that would likely rely on us shifting at least 2 of: Vestergaard/ Söyüncü + Amartey. And how many clubs do we think would realistically want Vester/ big Dan?! Ideal world we ship all 3 and get in Colwill and Niakhaté for a minimal net spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 10 minutes ago, slymunn said: Tarkowski, Ginter, Denayer all on frees and linked before (I believe) I am going to assume a bidding war for Tarkowski. An experienced centre back like him on a free transfer is not common. His current salary is reputed to be £50 grand a week so he will be looking for a substantial increase. If the Hammers and Newcastle come in ,we may have to go up to £100 grand. The club may baulk at that for a near 30 y o. He is not as good as Jonny ,few are , but he is a very powerful and consistent performer with a very good injury record . A PL unproven CB may take a year or so to settle in and we could be pretty exposed in that time. I suppose Vestergaard was supposed to be that man but so far it doesn't look like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 10 minutes ago, Foxes96 said: In an ideal world we’d get 2 in. A younger up and comer to replace Fofana when he leaves in a year or two for £100 million. And an Evans future replacement/ alternative. Although that would likely rely on us shifting at least 2 of: Vestergaard/ Söyüncü + Amartey. And how many clubs do we think would realistically want Vester/ big Dan?! Ideal world we ship all 3 and get in Colwill and Niakhaté for a minimal net spend. None of the top six rely on two young CBs , that has almost never been the case. Another Fofana is very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slymunn Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 1 minute ago, An Sionnach said: I am going to assume a bidding war for Tarkowski. An experienced centre back like him on a free transfer is not common. His current salary is reputed to be £50 grand a week so he will be looking for a substantial increase. If the Hammers and Newcastle come in ,we may have to go up to £100 grand. The club may baulk at that for a near 30 y o. He is not as good as Jonny ,few are , but he is a very powerful and consistent performer with a very good injury record . A PL unproven CB may take a year or so to settle in and we could be pretty exposed in that time. I suppose Vestergaard was supposed to be that man but so far it doesn't look like it. Jonny is on around 100k and you are saving the 20/30 million buying a similar level player such as dunk. I recon he is the number one target for us Cb wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes96 Posted 3 May 2022 Share Posted 3 May 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, An Sionnach said: None of the top six rely on two young CBs , that has almost never been the case. Another Fofana is very unlikely. Was suggesting more of Colwill being a young option to eventually take the mantle from Fofana in a year or so. And Niakhaté to alternate/ provide cover for Evans. Realise he’s not that old but is more experienced at 26 and is captain of Mainz. Slight hiccup I’ve just noticed is they’re both left footed. But better to have too many rather than not enough, and Fofana and Evans are both right footed. Edited 3 May 2022 by Foxes96 Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ric Flair Posted 3 May 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 3 May 2022 3 hours ago, An Sionnach said: On the assumption that Jonny will be unavailable for many matches next season. Who partners Fofana? A speculative, cheap (under £20 million) replacement. Vestergaard, Amartey or who?. An inexperienced pair with an ageing goalkeeper behind them does not sound secure to me. We need 2 new CB's, one young and one with a good amount of experience bit the combined fee has to be sensible which makes this not an easy task. I love the look of Niakhate at Mainz, he's their captain and perfect mix of experience and age to progress, he's left footed and with only a year left he wouldn't cost stupid money. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentFox Posted 4 May 2022 Share Posted 4 May 2022 Soyuncu out for £20m and Tarks in on a free would be insanely good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandfox Posted 4 May 2022 Share Posted 4 May 2022 15 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said: I still think he's a really good defender, one of those who will go on to excel elsewhere. Would rather we give him a chance under another manager to be honest... Which is all good and well, but he doesn't want to be here or he would have signed a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 5 May 2022 Share Posted 5 May 2022 If any prospective buyer is reading this thread ( and believes it) they will go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 5 May 2022 Share Posted 5 May 2022 5 minutes ago, An Sionnach said: If any prospective buyer is reading this thread ( and believes it) they will go elsewhere. Why would a scout read and/or trust a fans forum? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaspa Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 Says alot Amartey got on before him in Rome, especially when you think if we had put him on Fofana, Evans & Soy would all be in their best positions, of a back 3. Following on from Spurs and the comments afterwards you'd want for a reaction from Cags. Two games a week this month tells me he'll still have starts but it's certainly a flat farewell. Sad given the fanfare and hope around him just a couple of years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentFox Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 3 hours ago, pmcla26 said: Tarkowski is just a slower Soyuncu - decent defender but has weird moments, and he ain't that good without Mee next to him. I think having Evans or Wes next to him isn’t a bad swap for Mee? He reads the game insanely well and is a proper unit who adds intelligence and calculated aggression. I’d take him in a heartbeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafewayFox Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 3 hours ago, pmcla26 said: Tarkowski is just a slower Soyuncu - decent defender but has weird moments, and he ain't that good without Mee next to him. If Rodgers hadn’t been calling out Cags for a lack of aggression, I’d tend to agree but one thing you wouldn’t associate with Tarkowski is a soft under belly. Realistic, he’ll probably go to Newcastle to earn a huge wedge anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJams Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 6 hours ago, pmcla26 said: Tarkowski is just a slower Soyuncu - decent defender but has weird moments, and he ain't that good without Mee next to him. Well will yoou sign for us as well then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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