Is our recruitment a myth?

[Bayfox]

Well seen as there's some very interesting or strange debate on Rodgers, the state of our finances etc on here tonight. And plenty of stuff on twitter.

 

It got me to thinking is our recruitment record a bit of a myth.

 

Hear me out, does the perception of the clubs track record get inflated by the discovery's of the likes of, vardy, mahrez, kante, plus the fact we sold a fridge for huge profit, managed to get 50 million for an academy product.

 

I'm certainly not bashing the success of some of the players we have picked up, wilf, Ricky, timmy, kasper the above mentioned, all represent good scouting and business.

 

But we wasted 70 odd million after winning the league, last seasons window doesn't look great, it just feels like for every jonny Evans, vardy, kasper, kante, there's a RRZ, silmani, musa, etc that hasn't worked out silva, praet that haven't been given a chance.

 

More the fact that we make headlines for the sums we receive and profits made on mahrez, Drinkwater, Harry, chillwell that seem to grab the attention.

 

Is this another example if lazy journalism without really digging deep into what our success rate actually is.

 

Be really interested in people's honest thoughts.

 

Let me add to that. That I know you can't get everything right and man utd for years could probably afford to get as many wrong as they got right.  But do we get held up as this shining example when it's not quite as it seems.

 

Or do we get held up because as a smaller club we've got enough right to make it work.

Edited 20 August 2022 by Bayfox

[geo900]

Pretty much every club in the world gets more signings wrong than right.

You only have to look at the likes of real Madrid signing Eden hazard for huge money and Barcelona signing the likes of Braithwaite.

[foxfanazer]

Pre title win its hard to argue that our recruitment was unreal. We rarely got it wrong under Pearson, Walsh and Co.

 

Since then the recruitment has felt scattergun and has a pretty equal split between successes and failures imo. Maybe even more bad than good. I feel like the unexpected nature of the title win almost blew up our business model and we struggled to really assert what our future ambitions were. All just bases on my opinion of course

[ealingfox]

We've basically had 1 good window since 2016, the one under Puel where we got Maddison and Pereira etc in. Everything else is essentially dining off the fact we bought Mahrez, Vardy and Kante for a combined 7m, which is obviously all-time great business. But its no help to us now.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Yes - in recent years we’ve had a lot of failures.

 

At the moment it feels like we need another drain the swamp exercise like the one Pearson did when he came back.

[Mint23]

There’s no exact science to recruitment and it’s so difficult to get right but what I would say is that we get it right more than 90% of the teams.  Classic example is how bad Man U have been this past 10 years, they’ve spent a billion pounds since Fergie retired and are bottoms of the league and in that time have only won the Europa league. 

[South Shire Fox]

We sign some quality young players but the recent signings of late 20s/early 30s players has been horrific and an absolute waste of money

[foxfanazer]

Would love us to go more down the route of signings like James Justin. So many gems in the lower leagues that we should be tapping into and integrating gradually 

[frany104]

We have changed our transfers policy that worked well for us in favour of something which is crippling the club. We should be buying too young hungry talent and selling at top prices. Repeat. The only way to compete with the big clubs

[Sampson]

Yeah between 2012-2016 when Pearson, Walsh and Shakespeare were all here, we were as good as anyone at recruitment in world football.

 

Since then I'd say:

2016/17 - Largely a disaster. Squandered so much of the money we made on the title win and our increased profile on crap. Signed Ndidi in January though.

 

2017/18 - Mixed. Main signings were Maguire (success from a profit point of view), Iheanacho (success), Iborra (failiure), Silva (arguably the biggest failure in the club's history)., Dragovich (failiure)

 

2018/19 - Excellent, best by far of our post title winning seasons. Signed Maddison, Ricardo, Evans, Soyuncu and Tielemans on loan mid-season.

 

2019/20 - Weird one. Signed some decent players, but arguably not for value for money. Tielemans on permenant, Justin (success), Perez (decent player, but massively overpayed for him), Praet (I like him, but manager has never taken to him), Bennet (failiure)

 

2020/21 - Didn't sign many, but what we did was good I'd say, but the 2 main signings Fofana and Castagne are both successes, also had Under on loanm didn't work, but wasn't a massive issue on a season long loan.

 

2021/22 - Disaster.

[moore_94]

2014/15 - Ulloa, Kramaric, Simpson, Lawrence, Cambiasso, Albrighton, Hamer, Schwarzer, Upson, Powell (loan), Huth (loan)

 

Very good - 4 of the title winners, Cambiasso, 2 players we made money on (Lawrence and Kramaric), and a few cheap duffers

 

2015/16 - Okazaki, Kante, Inler, Benalouane, Amartey, Gray, Huth, Fuchs, Dyer (loan)

 

Very good - Huth made permanent, 3 more important title winners, Dyer was good just for that Villa game, some squad crap with Inler, Benalouane, Amartey, Gray

 

2016/17 - Slimani, Musa, Ndidi, Mendy, Kapustka, Zieler, Hernandez, Wague (loan)

 

Very poor - Other than Ndidi, the rest were overall I would say very poor signings, we got lucky in getting the Musa money back and making a profit on Hernandez

 

2017/18 - Iheanacho, Silva, Iborra, Maguire, Dragovic (loan), Jakupovic, Diabate

 

Okay - Iheanacho and Maguire have of course played a massive part in the recent history of the club, Silva was a complete mess though, thought it was a shame we didn't keep Dragovic, Iborra meh

 

2018/19 - Maddison, Pereira, Soyuncu, Benkovic, Ghezzal, Ward, Evans, Tielemans (loan)

 

Very good - Benkovic, Ghezzal, and Ward let it down a bit but the other were brilliant business

 

2019/20 - Tielemans, Perez, Praet, Justin, Bennett (loan)

 

Okay - Tielemans and JJ very good signings, Perez we massively overpaid, Praet is alright, Bennett... ffs 

 

2020/21 - Fofana, Castagne, Under

 

Very good - 2 very good additions to the team in Fofana and Castagne, an inexpensive loan with Under (who I thought should've played more)

 

2021/22 - Daka, Soumare, Vestergaard, Bertrand, Lookman (loan)

 

Poor - Lookman the only decent part of it, I have a bit of hope for Daka, Soumare not suited to the English game, Southampton pair was just incredibly bad

Edited 20 August 2022 by moore_94

[Dan]

We haven't had better than an 'OK' window since summer 2018, and every one since ranks from either OK to abject, with more touching the latter than the former.

 

It catches you eventually. There is no quick fix here. We are on the decline.

[Dan]

23 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

We've basically had 1 good window since 2016, the one under Puel where we got Maddison and Pereira etc in. Everything else is essentially dining off the fact we bought Mahrez, Vardy and Kante for a combined 7m, which is obviously all-time great business. But its no help to us now.

I've long suspected this to be the case sadly and I really do think it now.

[fazzyfox]

I remember when we signed Maguire, there were other candidates, Gibson, Keane, Mawson, I think they picked the right one in terms of re-sale.

 

Fofana, whatever we think of him right now was an outstanding spot due to earn us a 50 million profit if he goes and helped us get that F.A.Cup.

 

The decision to spread the Mahrez money around on a mini re-build was our finest summer though.

 

Soumare apparently topped several data / stats charts and was known to many clubs, I remember Klopp saying we’d done outstanding business last summer, but in reality I think the other clubs went and watched him hence the lack of competition for him.

[4everfox]

It comes down to the manager in my opinion. Every club has a scouting network, and the head of recruitment is the guy who makes his recommendations to the manager and to the board. But the manager is the one who usually gives the final approval for a transfer I reckon, that's why recruitment quality differs from manager to manager. Pearson and Puel were great at identifying talent for us, but Rodgers isn't.

 

We have a big squad rebuild job on our hands, and it is of paramount importance that we get ourselves a manager that has proven to be capable of consistently identifying high quality footballers at a reasonable price. 

[Mr Weller 2]

1 hour ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Yes - in recent years we’ve had a lot of failures.

 

At the moment it feels like we need another drain the swamp exercise like the one Pearson did when he came back.

Immediately prior to a season we spent rooted to the bottom of the table before accidentally stumbling on a winning lineup? Do you mean that one?

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

2 minutes ago, Mr Weller 2 said:

Immediately prior to a season we spent rooted to the bottom of the table before accidentally stumbling on a winning lineup? Do you mean that one?

No I mean when he cleared out the likes of Beckford et al a season or 2 before 

[Mr Weller 2]

Just now, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

No I mean when he cleared out the likes of Beckford et al a season or 2 before 

See above 

[MattFox]

Macia did a pretty good job here overall.

 

Deserved more credit than he got

 

 

[moore_94]

Just now, MattFox said:

Macia did a pretty good job here overall.

 

Deserved more credit than he got

 

 

A shame we didn't try and bring him back, I believe he is out of a job currently as well so could've come straight in

[Fox seen in Norwich]

I don’t think it’s a myth. I think we’ve done well given where we’re fishing. After all we jumped from champ winners to prem winners in 2 years largely due to recruitment 
 

Imo. this year Club are not wanting to buy until head of recruitment arrives. 

 

He left Southampton, anyone know when he starts for us ?

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 August 2022 by Fox seen in Norwich

[Fox92]

Under Pearson it was excellent and under Puel it was too. Obviously Pearson was more consistent as it was a longer period. Rodgers has been okay (considering he brought in Fofona, Justin and Castagne to this squad).

 

But our biggest transfer windows post PL win have been shocking. I don't rate any of last year's signings (Daka, Soumare, Vestergaard, Bertrand) just like the post PL signings didn't add anything to us aside from Ndidi (Slimani, Musa, Mendy, Kapustka, Zieler, Hernandez).

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Should do a list of all the signings in the last 4 or so windows and put them in green/amber/red categories a la what Neville did with Utd.

[davieG]

I'm confident if you looked deeply into other clubs transfers you'd find a similar story.

[StanSP]

15 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Should do a list of all the signings in the last 4 or so windows and put them in green/amber/red categories a la what Neville did with Utd.

@moore_94 has done it for us.

 

It's not as bad as is made out, we're still one of the best sides in the country in terms of recruitment, but having said that the last season is bringing it down a little. That's not to say it should negate the 4/5 seasons before though. 

There's a reason our recruitment model is respected across the game. 

 

Liverpool and Brentford are highly respected too for good reason. We're up there with them. 

 

We get it right more than we get it wrong. 

Some clubs are far worse.