Is our recruitment a myth?

[nnfox]

What I do find frustrating is the number of players that we sign who are, on the face of it, perfectly capable players, yet they don't get a look in at the first team without a real reason.  I get it with some of the younger players like Kaputska and Diabate who would be happy to around the squad and sit on the bench with a run out every now and again, but we have signed some good, seasoned, established pros from top European leagues, some with extensive European competition experience and even some medals too.  Players like Silva, Iborra, Praet, Under, Dragovic, Ghezzal and even players like Perez, Daka and Iheanacho get brought in with good reputation or bags of potential and then can't get a game.  It does make you wonder how effective our recruitment is.  Why bother signing them if there's no intention of playing them and end up paying good money for them to sit on the bench?

 

And I don't buy into the whole strength and depth philosophy either.  Buy players to go into the first team and existing first teamers move to the bench, or at least have healthy competition for spaces.  That's how you get a better squad.

[Stadt]

We’ve had a lot of churn with out HoR, scouts and analysts leaving. Hard to sustain quality when people in key positions move every few years.

 

Ultimately the buck stops with Rudkin, it’s him that rubber stamps any non-playing staff appointments.

 

If we couldn’t get Glover to start work during the window we should have appointed somebody we could.

[TMELcfc]

The only myth is Rodgers is a good coach. 
And on recruitment, he wanted his son and Congerton involved, since then, it’s been diabolical. I’m hoping this is more the reason he’s not been backed and we’ve put a stop on his influence over transfers 

[Scotch]

I think our recruitment has always been hit or miss. I don't think it has changed all that much in the level of players we have signed. The big factor on what has made or broke players here has been weather or not we played to their strengths. 

 

Take Slimani for example. Had we played more to his style of play, I don't think he would have flopped but we didn't. We play or did play to Vardy's strengths and he has benefited from that. 

 

Morgan and Huth... If we played like we do just now, with the high line... They would be in the same bin as Vestegaard. 

 

Something I just thought of as typing this.... If you replaced Okazaki with Perez in that title winning team... Do you think we would have saw a massive differance? I don't think we would have as that role would have suited him far greater than being shunted onto the right wing. 

 

I think that some players just get a raw deal in being signed and made to play in a style that doesn't suit them and some players are fortunate were they are played in exactly the way they should be. 

[smudgerfox]

A good thread .

 

The lack of stability is definitely a factor, Steve  Walsh left at the worst possible time as did Congerton. No one has stayed too long . 
 

But last summers recruitment defied a lot of our trusted methods. The “personal” problems of Soumare just didn’t happen under Walsh because players ‘ likelihood of settling in was considered as. a factor before we paid a huge transfer fee and agreed a high salary. 
 

How they would fit into the team /squad was another factor which was considered beforehand. We have so many fringe players who simply don’t fit Brendan’s preferred line up - Vestergaard, Perez, Praet, Ihenacho. It makes me wonder if the manager’s style can only succeed with players of Fofana quality and we can’t afford a 25 man squad of players at that level - as he well knows. But he won’t change the style to suit the players he has.

 

watching the likes of Fulham, Brentford and Palace on MOTD last night - I saw less wealthy clubs playing simple, instinctive football which is both entertaining and wins you points. Earlier at the KP I watched a team wracked with self doubt, overthinking and despite the talent on the pitch - completely unable to turn possession into into chances let alone goals. No recruitment is going to overcome such a creative paralysis…

[Blue and white]

I think we've been lucky and not really had any real direction since Pearson left. If we look at the pre season of when we won the league, ignoring Fuchs, Okazaki and Kante which were Pearson/Walsh targets we signed Benalounane on the same day as Kante. I know he became a cult hero but remember on here everyone having a lot of doubt this signing and for good reason.

 

Inler was another who we were linked with for weeks and all we had was negative feedback that he was finished, we still signed him and he was expectedly poor. Both being signings from Italy, I believe these were Ranieri signings and nowhere close to good enough and up there with Rodgers signings of Vestergaard and Bertrand in terms of clearly bad moves that the club went along with. My point is we have been bringing in obvious duds going back this far.

 

We signed Demarai Gray on the back of a pre season goal against us the following January and then Amartey. Fast forward to the disaster of the signings made after the title win, all of whom failed. Ndidi signed in January which was the first success in about 18 months.

 

Summer 2017 under Shakespeare we signed Maguire, Iborra, Iheanacho, Silva - an improvement on the previous year but only Maguire could be considered a success.

 

It was during Puel's era where the core of the team that made top 5 was purchased. Ricardo, Evans, Maddison were the positives, but we followed those up with Ward, Ghezzal and Benkovic. Then finally Soyuncu. A mixed bag but more successes than not for once. Puel left us with Tielemans on loan as his last signing. I think you can see the idea with these signings unlike the previous years, although once again we let the manager bring in an obvious dud - Ghezzal.

 

Rodgers started well with Justin but then we come to Perez, Praet and Bennett during his first year who didn't work. In 2020 we sign Castagne, Under and Fofana which was decent but still left us with glaringly obvious problems out wide. And then Daka, Soumare, Bertrand, Vestergaard, Lookman.

 

After Rodgers 3 year reign and having signed more than previous managers, we’ve only 2 or 3 Rodgers signings in the starting 11.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

2 hours ago, Scotch said:

Something I just thought of as typing this.... If you replaced Okazaki with Perez in that title winning team... Do you think we would have saw a massive differance? 

 

**** me

[Merging Cultures]

16 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

Pre title win its hard to argue that our recruitment was unreal. We rarely got it wrong under Pearson, Walsh and Co.

 

Since then the recruitment has felt scattergun and has a pretty equal split between successes and failures imo. Maybe even more bad than good. I feel like the unexpected nature of the title win almost blew up our business model and we struggled to really assert what our future ambitions were. All just bases on my opinion of course

I know people don't like looking back at NP, but with him the club built systems and processes. It feels like we've let so many of our "ways of working" go, even if it's intangibles like sports Psychs etc.

 

We were known for our number crunching and analytics. Where's that gone? Has it been replaced by BRs note book?

[JimmyC74]

I think our recruitment record overall compares ok with most other clubs.

 

There have been some notable successes (vardy, Mahrez, Kante) and awful failures (Summer 2016/17).  I think though a lot of the successes were borne of necessity - top championship side / emerging PL side having to spread relatively modest cash about to get a few in and taking some risks on unknowns as we couldn’t complete with the top teams.

 

Our recent failures e.g. Slimani and Soumare have followed us trying to move up a tier in the type of player / market we are seeking / operating in and our recruitment/ identification of players has been found wanting. Has the recruitment team improved its output since then?

 

our reputation I think has mostly been driven by generating significant profits on Drinky, Kante, Mahrez and Maguire.

Edited 21 August 2022 by JimmyC74

[Sampson]

6 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Should do a list of all the signings in the last 4 or so windows and put them in green/amber/red categories a la what Neville did with Utd.

Since the title win. Took out reserve players and 3rd choice keepers and the like. Think it’s about even between good and bad transfers tbh. Don’t know if a roughly 50% hit rate is considered good or bad vs other clubs?

GREEN

Wilfred Ndidi

Harry Maguire (at least from a profit point of view)

Kelechi Iheanacho

Ricardo Perreira

Jonny Evans

James Maddison

Caglar Soyuncu

 Youri Tielemans

James Justin

Timothy Castagne 

Wesley Fofana

 

AMBER

Nampalys Mendy (Been decent at times but was our record signing who was supposed to replace Kante)

Fousseni Diabate (was signed as a reserve player but got promoted to the first team after a great game in the cup. Was a reserve player in reality though)

Ayoze Perez (decent squad player, but massively overpaid)

Dennis Praet (showed it in flashes but manager doesn’t fancy him)

Patson Daka (jury still out)

Adamola Lookman (a bit erratic, great at times, not quite a green though)

 

RED

Ron-Robert Zieler

Luis Hernandes

Ahmed Musa

Bartosz Kaputska

Islam Slimani

Vicente Iborra (had a couple of decent performances but ultimately not worth it)

Adrien Silva

Aleksander Dragovich

Danny Ward (might come good still but I’m not holding my breath)

Rachid Ghezzal

Filip Benkovic

Ryan Bennett

Cengis Under

Boubakary Soumare (might come good still)

Ryan Bertrand 

Jannik Vestegaard

Edited 21 August 2022 by Sampson

[NeilLCFC]

Reading this thread just reminded me how much we owe Pearson for giving us this golden era we’ve had. Every bit of the success we’ve had is in some way or another attributed to the infrastructure he put in place. 
 

Assembling but not getting the chance to mange (due to non-footballing related reasons) the side that created the biggest upset in the history of football is enough to make anyone bitter, but he’s always been a gent when he’s come back to the club. 

What a man. 

Edited 21 August 2022 by NeilLCFC

[Foxxed]

I think it's safe to say more than a few new signings have been mismanaged this last season or so. I mean, Tielemans is amazing but under Rodgers of late he has been poor. We know Soyuncu can be the best in the league but under Rodgers of late he plays poorly or doesn't play.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Since the title win. Took out reserve players and 3rd choice keepers and the like. Think it’s about even between good and bad transfers tbh. Don’t know if a roughly 50% hit rate is considered good or bad vs other clubs?

GREEN

Wilfred Ndidi

Harry Maguire (at least from a profit point of view)

Kelechi Iheanacho

Ricardo Perreira

Jonny Evans

James Maddison

Caglar Soyuncu

 Youri Tielemans

James Justin

Timothy Castagne 

Wesley Fofana

 

AMBER

Nampalys Mendy (Been decent at times but was our record signing who was supposed to replace Kante)

Fousseni Diabate (was signed as a reserve player but got promoted to the first team after a great game in the cup. Was a reserve player in reality though)

Ayoze Perez (decent squad player, but massively overpaid)

Dennis Praet (showed it in flashes but manager doesn’t fancy him)

Patson Daka (jury still out)

Adamola Lookman (a bit erratic, great at times, not quite a green though)

 

RED

Ron-Robert Zieler

Luis Hernandes

Ahmed Musa

Bartosz Kaputska

Islam Slimani

Vicente Iborra (had a couple of decent performances but ultimately not worth it)

Adrien Silva

Aleksander Dragovich

Danny Ward (might come good still but I’m not holding my breath)

Rachid Ghezzal

Filip Benkovic

Ryan Bennett

Cengis Under

Boubakary Soumare (might come good still)

Ryan Bertrand 

Jannik Vestegaard

Yeah agree with most of that. So 50/50 at best, some of the fees in the red/amber brackets are the issue though really.

[KingsX]

I thought we judiciously balanced our transfer policy between emphasizing affordable youthful talent which can be developed and sold on, and reliable veterans.  But interesting to see this from the Athletic, which analysed 1,569 transfers to determine the age profile of every current PL club’s recruitment over the past decade.

 

   

 

Brendan Rodgers has made 14 first-team additions since he took charge in February 2019 — the average age of the signings he has made is 24 years and nine months, compared to 26 years and five months by the three men who came before him, including Nigel Pearson and Claudio Ranieri.

 

So it's not that we're signing older veterans -- in fact slightly the opposite.  We've just gone from signing high-character, hungry Cambiasso / Fuchs / Huth / Ulloa veterans to cashing-in seniors (with Jonny Evans the exception).

 

https://theathletic.com/3516067/2022/08/21/age-profile-signings-premier-league/

Edited 22 August 2022 by KingsX

[Lambert09]

we struggle to just sign average don’t we. We seem to either make amazing transfers or people that look like they can’t play football. No wonder we struggle so much trying to sign a ‘squad player’ 

[volpeazzurro]

16 hours ago, Scotch said:

I think our recruitment has always been hit or miss. I don't think it has changed all that much in the level of players we have signed. The big factor on what has made or broke players here has been weather or not we played to their strengths. 

 

Take Slimani for example. Had we played more to his style of play, I don't think he would have flopped but we didn't. We play or did play to Vardy's strengths and he has benefited from that. 

 

Morgan and Huth... If we played like we do just now, with the high line... They would be in the same bin as Vestegaard. 

 

Something I just thought of as typing this.... If you replaced Okazaki with Perez in that title winning team... Do you think we would have saw a massive differance? I don't think we would have as that role would have suited him far greater than being shunted onto the right wing. 

 

I think that some players just get a raw deal in being signed and made to play in a style that doesn't suit them and some players are fortunate were they are played in exactly the way they should be. 

Okazaki did a definite job behind Vardy. Perez? Don't make me laugh, bloody useless. If Okazaki was left out there was always something missing though you couldn't always put your finger on it. If powder puff Perez is out it's a blessing! 

Edited 22 August 2022 by volpeazzurro

[Jon the Hat]

14 hours ago, Blue and white said:

After Rodgers 3 year reign and having signed more than previous managers, we’ve only 2 or 3 Rodgers signings in the starting 11.

This is surely the main point.  Signings can only be a success if they are playing, and developing the team in the image the manager wants.  So what the hell is Brendan doing?

[smudgerfox]

15 hours ago, Blue and white said:

 

After Rodgers 3 year reign and having signed more than previous managers, we’ve only 2 or 3 Rodgers signings in the starting 11.

Agreed. Friday October 25/2019, Southampton 0 Leicester 9. Starting line up: Schmeichel; Ricardo; Evans; Soyuncu; Chilwell; NDidi; Perez; Tielemans; Maddison; Barnes; Vardy. 
 

Clearly shows how little the starting 11 has evolved since then - mostly of necessity (sales or injury) and how little any of those players who played on Saturday as well have improved, how little the team set up has improved. We were second in the table that night and rightly feared. 

[Dahnsouff]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Okazaki did a definite job behind Vardy. Perez? Don't make me laugh, bloody useless. If Okazaki was left out there was always something missing though you couldn't always put your finger on it. If powder puff Perez is out it's a blessing! 

Perez hardly ever plays behind Vardy

 

Next.

[NewEnglandFox]

I've thought the age thing has been overblown since we were called a young team about 3 seasons in a row while really just aging every year. But we've finally grown old real fast.

 

Our over 30 transfer history was easy to find on transfermarket. But it didn't distinguish returning from loan so I had to weed those out. As it said we'd signed the likes of Slim, King, and Gary-Taylor-Fletcher multiple times as over 30s. Maybe that's where to really look though, the 30s we're sending on loan that we couldn't sell? Explains dead money.

 

Smithies (GK), Bertrand, Evans (paid), Jakupovich (paid/GK), Huth (paid), Inler (paid), Cambiasso, Schwarzer (42/GK), Upson, Hammond, Wasyl, KP (40).

 

Bertrand flop but fee free. Inler didn't work out but the vitriol on him was like we paid a Vesty sized fee for him.

 

 

[Stadt]

We've ridden on the coattails of the Vardy, Kante & Mahrez signings for so long that our reputation surpassed our actual record. How many very good signings have we made in the past 3 years? Fofana?

 

Our best players now are academy graduates or players we signed longer than 5 years ago.

Edited 22 August 2022 by Stadt

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

We've ridden on the coattails of the Vardy, Kante & Mahrez signings for so long that our reputation surpassed our actual record. How many very good signings have we made in the past 3 years? Fofana?

 

Our best players now are academy graduates or players we signed longer than 5 years ago.

 

I'm still stubbornly determined that Daka is an excellent signing being horrendously mismanaged. 

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm still stubbornly determined that Daka is an excellent signing being horrendously mismanaged. 

I like him, there's definitely more to come but at this moment in time he's definitely not a "very good signing", he'll prove to be one I think but we're a while off it.

[moore_94]

40 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm still stubbornly determined that Daka is an excellent signing being horrendously mismanaged. 

That is the position I am taking with a lot of our current squad tbf

 

Plenty of our players we know can be good and have previously looked good for us but for quite a few of them it all just seems very lackadaisical and poor

Edited 22 August 2022 by moore_94

[LFox99]

44 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm still stubbornly determined that Daka is an excellent signing being horrendously mismanaged. 

you dont score 27 in 28 (no matter the league) by being bad