Tactics - Full back instructions / covering players

[moore_94]

Going to be a bit of a long one but stuff like this really annoys me, almost like someone had let their kid player football manager and mess around with the tactic / player instructions 

 

Pretty obvious instructions for our 2 full backs tonight which caused us issues in behind, and ultimately the goal

 

Thomas instructed to play as an inverted wing back, as we had been working on in pre-season, to push inside beyond the winger to cause an overload in the narrow areas, hoping to create more space for Barnes

 

Justin to operate effectively as both the full back and the winger and to cover the entire length of the right side of the pitch, with Maddison coming inside

 

For both of these to work and not leave us open to the counter in behind, which it did, you need to instruct players to cover the space being left open

 

I can't decide whether it is either:

 

a) Rodgers is too ignorant to think we need to account for that issue

 

b) Rodgers is too stupid to know we need to account for that issue

 

c) The players just couldn't be bothered to do it as often as it was needed

 

I noticed at times that Tielemans would drop into the right back position when JJ had bombed on. One issue with this of course is that it effectively took Tielemans out of the attacking game, but there was also an issue of where there wasn't always some one there, either Tielemans or someone else, which on multiple occassions gave Man Utd the chance to break with an overload, but also meant that JJ would have to at times give up going forward which caused us to have no outlet available on the right

 

When Thomas would push on into the forward area as expected of the instruction given to him I don't think I ever really saw anyone back covering the space he had left in behind him, whether Soumare or KDH or someone else was meant to do this I don't know but it seemed in the 2nd half he wasn't asked to do it quite as much, it actually seems like Rodgers might have noticed it was becoming an issue. Of course it was too late as Man Utd exposed it for the goal.

 

He needs to stop trying to make us into Man City 2.0 and thinking he can try stuff like this without at least ensuring the issues are adequately covered, it just causes us too many issues.

Edited 1 September 2022 by moore_94

[FoxesWalk]

It looked like we were trying inverted wing backs for the first time… which we are, in anger at least. I’m not sure our wingbacks are good enough on the ball for the role, as much as I like the idea in principle. JJ struggled with his positioning, was probably the worst game I can remember him having for us; improved a bit when KDH was moved over to support him. 
 

We should sack it off though, it’s not going to work. We need to get support to the striker. Barnes is often a passenger. We should be playing 442 diamond with wingbacks imo. We have the players for it. 

[urban.spaceman]

[HybridFox]

I didn't have a clue what was going on. Even tried to visualise the shape and were all over the shop

[Dan]

Rodgers plays a style of football that has been sussed for a large part and needs specialists to pull off, and even then it has its flaws. He's delusional. He's in genuine danger of being left behind.

[Guest]

It's like he wants us to emulate better teams without actually understanding how or why they do the things they do.

[Rigga]

Absolute no balance at all…

 

Felt for Justin on the right side but we see it time and time again where the FB receives the ball in our own half and has nothing in front of him.. so only option is sideways/backwards (where have we heard that before )

[Dan]

13 minutes ago, Guest said:

It's like he wants us to emulate better teams without actually understanding how or why they do the things they do.

Honestly he manages how I'd expect Sunday League hipster to manage.

[Rigga]

And all the bollox of Maddison playing inside right etc… then 2nd half as an 8

 

hes a number 10 and one of the best in the country in that role… just play him there maybe ?

[Lambert09]

Tactics like this baffle me. the small help they give us in offence is hugely out weighed by the cost of being caught short at the back. It’s like you are giving the other team a free pass. 
 

we were genuinely comfortable and our undoing was fully down to instructing our fbs to play high… easiest goal they will score all season. 
 

I saw lots of negative ratings for our cbs today but i thought they deserved some credit for sweeping up after everyone all game. 

[HoustonFox]

4 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Going to be a bit of a long one but stuff like this really annoys me, almost like someone had let their kid player football manager and mess around with the tactic / player instructions 

 

Pretty obvious instructions for our 2 full backs tonight which caused us issues in behind, and ultimately the goal

 

Thomas instructed to play as an inverted wing back, as we had been working on in pre-season, to push inside beyond the winger to cause an overload in the narrow areas, hoping to create more space for Barnes

 

Justin to operate effectively as both the full back and the winger and to cover the entire length of the right side of the pitch, with Maddison coming inside

 

For both of these to work and not leave us open to the counter in behind, which it did, you need to instruct players to cover the space being left open

 

I can't decide whether it is either:

 

a) Rodgers is too ignorant to think we need to account for that issue

 

b) Rodgers is too stupid to know we need to account for that issue

 

c) The players just couldn't be bothered to do it as often as it was needed

 

I noticed at times that Tielemans would drop into the right back position when JJ had bombed on. One issue with this of course is that it effectively took Tielemans out of the attacking game, but there was also an issue of where there wasn't always some one there, either Tielemans or someone else, which on multiple occassions gave Man Utd the chance to break with an overload, but also meant that JJ would have to at times give up going forward which caused us to have no outlet available on the right

 

When Thomas would push on into the forward area as expected of the instruction given to him I don't think I ever really saw anyone back covering the space he had left in behind him, whether Soumare or KDH or someone else was meant to do this I don't know but it seemed in the 2nd half he wasn't asked to do it quite as much, it actually seems like Rodgers might have noticed it was becoming an issue. Of course it was too late as Man Utd exposed it for the goal.

 

He needs to stop trying to make us into Man City 2.0 and thinking he can try stuff like this without at least ensuring the issues are adequately covered, it just causes us too many issues.

Great post. He wants us to be Man City 2.0 but we’re Man City 0.2 right now. 
 

Speaking of Man City, they also know how to use their striker and we don’t. 
 

Basically, we’re more similar to Salford FC than Man City right now 

[Deeg67]

If I were managing this team now and it was just about triage and staying up, I’d immediately go to a 4-4-2 diamond with Kel up front (not sure whether it would be with Vardy or Daka TBH).  That’s the formation that best utilizes the talent we have.  Simplify the game, let guys do what they’re best at.  Barnes is not playing at a level where we should be building our formation to accommodate him.

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, Deeg67 said:

If I were managing this team now and it was just about triage and staying up, I’d immediately go to a 4-4-2 diamond with Kel up front (not sure whether it would be with Vardy or Daka TBH).  That’s the formation that best utilizes the talent we have.  Simplify the game, let guys do what they’re best at.  Barnes is not playing at a level where we should be building our formation to accommodate him.

Hi Sven

[Deeg67]

1 minute ago, Gamble92 said:

Hi Sven

Have fun in The Championship next season.

[marbles]

1 hour ago, Deeg67 said:

Have fun in The Championship next season.

Jumping ship?

[foxinsocks]

7 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Going to be a bit of a long one but stuff like this really annoys me, almost like someone had let their kid player football manager and mess around with the tactic / player instructions 

 

Pretty obvious instructions for our 2 full backs tonight which caused us issues in behind, and ultimately the goal

 

Thomas instructed to play as an inverted wing back, as we had been working on in pre-season, to push inside beyond the winger to cause an overload in the narrow areas, hoping to create more space for Barnes

 

Justin to operate effectively as both the full back and the winger and to cover the entire length of the right side of the pitch, with Maddison coming inside

 

For both of these to work and not leave us open to the counter in behind, which it did, you need to instruct players to cover the space being left open

 

I can't decide whether it is either:

 

a) Rodgers is too ignorant to think we need to account for that issue

 

b) Rodgers is too stupid to know we need to account for that issue

 

c) The players just couldn't be bothered to do it as often as it was needed

 

I noticed at times that Tielemans would drop into the right back position when JJ had bombed on. One issue with this of course is that it effectively took Tielemans out of the attacking game, but there was also an issue of where there wasn't always some one there, either Tielemans or someone else, which on multiple occassions gave Man Utd the chance to break with an overload, but also meant that JJ would have to at times give up going forward which caused us to have no outlet available on the right

 

When Thomas would push on into the forward area as expected of the instruction given to him I don't think I ever really saw anyone back covering the space he had left in behind him, whether Soumare or KDH or someone else was meant to do this I don't know but it seemed in the 2nd half he wasn't asked to do it quite as much, it actually seems like Rodgers might have noticed it was becoming an issue. Of course it was too late as Man Utd exposed it for the goal.

 

He needs to stop trying to make us into Man City 2.0 and thinking he can try stuff like this without at least ensuring the issues are adequately covered, it just causes us too many issues.

Are you the guy who sits near me in b3?

[adam95581]

We’ve got no balance in the side at the moment. We need to get back to basics because the players look lost and confused as to what they should be doing. Part of this is because Rodgers didn’t get the signings he wanted and so he is trying different things (moving Ndidi into the back 4, playing KDH on the right, inverted full backs etc.)

 

Feels to me that we just need to get back to playing in a way that gives us a solid shape and gets our best players playing in their natural positions - Maddison in the middle, Tielemans as an 8, Ndidi holding etc. I’d even consider putting Perez back out on the right at this point just to get some balance back (and he’s also had some decent cameos of late). 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

8 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Going to be a bit of a long one but stuff like this really annoys me, almost like someone had let their kid player football manager and mess around with the tactic / player instructions 

 

Pretty obvious instructions for our 2 full backs tonight which caused us issues in behind, and ultimately the goal

 

Thomas instructed to play as an inverted wing back, as we had been working on in pre-season, to push inside beyond the winger to cause an overload in the narrow areas, hoping to create more space for Barnes

 

Justin to operate effectively as both the full back and the winger and to cover the entire length of the right side of the pitch, with Maddison coming inside

 

For both of these to work and not leave us open to the counter in behind, which it did, you need to instruct players to cover the space being left open

 

I can't decide whether it is either:

 

a) Rodgers is too ignorant to think we need to account for that issue

 

b) Rodgers is too stupid to know we need to account for that issue

 

c) The players just couldn't be bothered to do it as often as it was needed

 

I noticed at times that Tielemans would drop into the right back position when JJ had bombed on. One issue with this of course is that it effectively took Tielemans out of the attacking game, but there was also an issue of where there wasn't always some one there, either Tielemans or someone else, which on multiple occassions gave Man Utd the chance to break with an overload, but also meant that JJ would have to at times give up going forward which caused us to have no outlet available on the right

 

When Thomas would push on into the forward area as expected of the instruction given to him I don't think I ever really saw anyone back covering the space he had left in behind him, whether Soumare or KDH or someone else was meant to do this I don't know but it seemed in the 2nd half he wasn't asked to do it quite as much, it actually seems like Rodgers might have noticed it was becoming an issue. Of course it was too late as Man Utd exposed it for the goal.

 

He needs to stop trying to make us into Man City 2.0 and thinking he can try stuff like this without at least ensuring the issues are adequately covered, it just causes us too many issues.

You haven't mentioned that we have one of the premier Leagues greatest strikers on the pitch, but with the way Brendan's team play behind him he may as well get a deck chair out for all the use we make of him. 

If Brendan wants to keep his job and get the fans back on board he needs to change things up and forget about possession football and go back to what we know we are good at and start the counter attacking style again. 

Playing how we do only sends the fans to sleep and let's the opposition regroup and cover the spaces, meaning we are left taking pot shots with little chance of scoring. 

[coolhandfox]

When you have conceded 11 goals in 5 games the last thing you should be doing is asking your fullbacks to push on.

 

We aren't compact enough when we don't have the ball, teams walk though us.

 

We lack shape and organisation.

 

When we press it never as a team so we are easy to play around.

 

We don't look fit.

Edited 2 September 2022 by coolhandfox

[Lesta Legend]

8 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Going to be a bit of a long one but stuff like this really annoys me, almost like someone had let their kid player football manager and mess around with the tactic / player instructions 

 

Pretty obvious instructions for our 2 full backs tonight which caused us issues in behind, and ultimately the goal

 

Thomas instructed to play as an inverted wing back, as we had been working on in pre-season, to push inside beyond the winger to cause an overload in the narrow areas, hoping to create more space for Barnes

 

Justin to operate effectively as both the full back and the winger and to cover the entire length of the right side of the pitch, with Maddison coming inside

 

For both of these to work and not leave us open to the counter in behind, which it did, you need to instruct players to cover the space being left open

 

I can't decide whether it is either:

 

a) Rodgers is too ignorant to think we need to account for that issue

 

b) Rodgers is too stupid to know we need to account for that issue

 

c) The players just couldn't be bothered to do it as often as it was needed

 

I noticed at times that Tielemans would drop into the right back position when JJ had bombed on. One issue with this of course is that it effectively took Tielemans out of the attacking game, but there was also an issue of where there wasn't always some one there, either Tielemans or someone else, which on multiple occassions gave Man Utd the chance to break with an overload, but also meant that JJ would have to at times give up going forward which caused us to have no outlet available on the right

 

When Thomas would push on into the forward area as expected of the instruction given to him I don't think I ever really saw anyone back covering the space he had left in behind him, whether Soumare or KDH or someone else was meant to do this I don't know but it seemed in the 2nd half he wasn't asked to do it quite as much, it actually seems like Rodgers might have noticed it was becoming an issue. Of course it was too late as Man Utd exposed it for the goal.

 

He needs to stop trying to make us into Man City 2.0 and thinking he can try stuff like this without at least ensuring the issues are adequately covered, it just causes us too many issues.

I literally have lost any faith that he’ll play to the strengths rather than mold us into something with players that clearly aren’t going to be maximised playing that way. 
 

We clearly needed new players and the club have a lot to answer for over the last season or two to ever get us into the position like this in first place but Rodger’s refuses to change or reflect on himself and it’s really what’s needed. 

[funkyrobot]

The set up was wrong with the left side overloaded and the right side exposed AND the personnel used. Thomas is the weakest fullback we have available. Benching Castagne and dropping  Thomas into his first premier league game against a rapid attack was madness and it backfired for the goal spectacularly. Its decisions like this, as well as the continued blind support of Ward and the Soyuncu situation that makes me think that Brendan is trying to engineer his own sacking. 

[Paninistickers]

Great thread and great comments. 

 

It's extraordinary how he's managed to set up a team that has nothing up front, is overrun in midfield AND is weak at the back. I would've thought it was nigh on impossible to leave all 3 departments short 

[davieG]

They were attacking with 5 players most of the game against our 2 CB and whoever we manged to get back in time from the MF and FBs

[turlo]

12 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Going to be a bit of a long one but stuff like this really annoys me, almost like someone had let their kid player football manager and mess around with the tactic / player instructions 

 

Pretty obvious instructions for our 2 full backs tonight which caused us issues in behind, and ultimately the goal

 

Thomas instructed to play as an inverted wing back, as we had been working on in pre-season, to push inside beyond the winger to cause an overload in the narrow areas, hoping to create more space for Barnes

 

Justin to operate effectively as both the full back and the winger and to cover the entire length of the right side of the pitch, with Maddison coming inside

 

For both of these to work and not leave us open to the counter in behind, which it did, you need to instruct players to cover the space being left open

 

I can't decide whether it is either:

 

a) Rodgers is too ignorant to think we need to account for that issue

 

b) Rodgers is too stupid to know we need to account for that issue

 

c) The players just couldn't be bothered to do it as often as it was needed

 

I noticed at times that Tielemans would drop into the right back position when JJ had bombed on. One issue with this of course is that it effectively took Tielemans out of the attacking game, but there was also an issue of where there wasn't always some one there, either Tielemans or someone else, which on multiple occassions gave Man Utd the chance to break with an overload, but also meant that JJ would have to at times give up going forward which caused us to have no outlet available on the right

 

When Thomas would push on into the forward area as expected of the instruction given to him I don't think I ever really saw anyone back covering the space he had left in behind him, whether Soumare or KDH or someone else was meant to do this I don't know but it seemed in the 2nd half he wasn't asked to do it quite as much, it actually seems like Rodgers might have noticed it was becoming an issue. Of course it was too late as Man Utd exposed it for the goal.

 

He needs to stop trying to make us into Man City 2.0 and thinking he can try stuff like this without at least ensuring the issues are adequately covered, it just causes us too many issues.

There used to be an option on footy manager to instruct a midfielder to defend out wide and i think Rodgers has forgot to select it!

 

I know Thomas's progress seems to have stalled over the last 12 months but he's clearly confused with all the different instructions he's being given and his old trait of  overlapping and putting a decent cross in as been coached out of him. 

[Gamble92]

9 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Have fun in The Championship next season.

How dare you