Just Stop Oil

[fox_up_north]

I meant in tandem with disruption. Block a road but show people WHY. I think the Just Stop Oil tagline is ok but they need to explain to people on the road. Have a designated person for angry drivers to talk to who can explain what is going on.

[Free Falling Foxes]

It seems to me there are basically 4 schools of thought and non thought, on the whole topic of climate change generally, and the campaigns both official, and by protesters, to tackle it.

 

Firstly, there are folks who have no awareness at all - yes, really, they exist.

 

Secondly, folk who are aware and are doing their bit by following guidelines such as recycling, walking/cycling/public transport, cutting back on energy use, eat less meat, ect.

 

Then there are those who don't care because they are deniers and/or hold the view, 'It won't affect me in my lifetime'.

Sadly, a member of my own family holds this view. I've pointed out to him that he has grandchildren, what about them and their children.

Alas, his 3 continental holidays/year are more important.

 

Finally, those who think we should do something, as long as it doesnt affect me in any way shape or form.

 

Of course there are 'sub groups' to the ones I've mentioned, but that is about it.

 

I dispair for the reasons above and I don't know how on Earth (no pun intended) it can be resolved.

Edited 22 July 2023 by Free Falling Foxes

[dsr-burnley]

On 22/07/2023 at 08:04, fox_up_north said:

They need capable PR. It can't just be people glued to a road. They need someone there clearly and calmly explaining why. Often posed as questions to get people thinking. EG: have you noticed it's hotter? How do you feel about energy bills rising? Are you worried about not being able to heat your home?

 

Disruption only works if it stops people going back to how they acted before or changes behaviour.

The second and third questions wouldn't be appropriate, because one thing the green lobby wants is to cause the increase in energy prices by more use of more expensive renewable power.  (And of course they ask for the obvious retort, "if it gets warmer I won't need to heat my home" .) 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

The second and third questions wouldn't be appropriate, because one thing the green lobby wants is to cause the increase in energy prices by more use of more expensive renewable power.  (And of course they ask for the obvious retort, "if it gets warmer I won't need to heat my home" .) 

You're right, should substitute for the better:

 

"Do you know the effect of climate change on global food and water prices, to say nothing of things as simple as home insurance costs?"

 

And "are you worried about hundreds of millions of people being rendered homeless and refugees by both the increase in temperature making their land uncultivatable and the conflicts that will inevitability arise because of shortages of food and potable water?"

 

Those are questions that might inspire a little thought, ne?

Edited 23 July 2023 by leicsmac

[Foxdiamond]

Related to the climate crisis do many here think about their carbon footprint?

[FoxyPV]

Europe is on fire or experiencing abnormal weather conditions and a large percentage of society/ media is debating whether climate change is real.

 

We're so ****ed because some people just need to have even more money than they'll ever need

[Bellend Sebastian]

9 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Related to the climate crisis do many here think about their carbon footprint?

Until recently I had a car that was fairly horrendous on the CO2 front so I was always careful to use that as sparingly as possible.

 

I never really thought about my carbon footprint specifically as it sort of goes hand in hand with using as little energy as possible, and that in turn goes hand in hand with being a tight arse, which I've never had a problem with.

 

Even before the price of energy got silly I was a short showers, barely have the heating on kind of guy.

 

I should really eat less meat though

[Foxdiamond]

1 minute ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Until recently I had a car that was fairly horrendous on the CO2 front so I was always careful to use that as sparingly as possible.

 

I never really thought about my carbon footprint specifically as it sort of goes hand in hand with using as little energy as possible, and that in turn goes hand in hand with being a tight arse, which I've never had a problem with.

 

Even before the price of energy got silly I was a short showers, barely have the heating on kind of guy.

 

I should really eat less meat though

The reason I wondered is that on the one hand most here agree that there is a climate crisis yet there are threads about holiday destinations some of which are far away and how many countries visited. We hear concerns about air pollution in places like London which has better public transport than most areas yet a reluctance to cut car use. Is it a case that the other fellow needs to make changes but don't ask me

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

Related to the climate crisis do many here think about their carbon footprint?

Yes, regularly, that doesn't mean we do or have done everything we can but it is a constant consideration. Admittedly we've fvcked up all the good work we used to do by having kids* but we have used cloth nappies on them. Admittedly that is a pretty insignificant change but more importantly it is very visible so everyone can see what great human beings we are as we carry around brightly coloured turd smeared fabric bum coverings to wash at home at our own inconvenience and expense. 

 

* Not only are kids a massive drain on the planets resources we now use at least a cow's more milk every week and we're too drained to prep and cook nice fresh low waste veggie food so we now eat meat cos it's easier and throw away 3 times as much food that's out of date.

Edited 23 July 2023 by Captain...

[Foxdiamond]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

Yes, regularly, that doesn't mean we do or have done everything we can but it is a constant consideration. Admittedly we've fvcked up all the good work we used to do by having kids* but we have used cloth nappies on them. Admittedly that is a pretty insignificant change but more importantly it is very visible so everyone can see what great human beings as we carry around brightly coloured turd smeared fabric bum coverings to wash at home at our own inconvenience and expense. 

 

* Not only are kids a massive drain on the planets resources we know use at least a cow's more milk every week and we're too drained to prep and cook nice fresh low waste veggie food so we now eat meat cos it's easier and throw away 3 times as much food that's out of date.

We used the old Terry's nappies back in the day to save money rather than climate considerations. I think we do need the kids to grow up to do whatever jobs may still need doing

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

We used the old Terry's nappies back in the day to save money rather than climate considerations. I think we do need the kids to grow up to do whatever jobs may still need doing

Haven't you heard A.I. will do all the jobs. One of the greatest burdens on the planet is over population. The problem is capitalism kinda relies on it so we're fvcked whatever we slice it unless we can find a limitless source of energy.

[Foxdiamond]

Just now, Captain... said:

Haven't you heard A.I. will do all the jobs. One of the greatest burdens on the planet is over population. The problem is capitalism kinda relies on it so we're fvcked whatever we slice it unless we can find a limitless source of energy.

Will a robot do the caring jobs like looking after the elderly 

[Captain...]

2 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Will a robot do the caring jobs like looking after the elderly 

Potentially yes. (Although I was also being slightly flippant in some of my responses above)

 

 

[fox_up_north]

1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

Related to the climate crisis do many here think about their carbon footprint?

I do. My 4 flights this year were my first since 2018. My plan is to do more local "holidays" in Britain. I've got solar, I don't put the heating on so much and I have 2-3 veggie days per week. 

The car is the main issue as public transport is so crap but I work from home. If I can get a train, I will.

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

* Not only are kids a massive drain on the planets resources we now use at least a cow's more milk every week and we're too drained to prep and cook nice fresh low waste veggie food so we now eat meat cos it's easier and throw away 3 times as much food that's out of date.

That's 300 pints a week.  I think they're perhaps overdoing it!

 

You could stop throwing away food that's out of date, and restrict the throwaway only to food that has gone off.  That might help.  As for meat eating, surely sheep don't have much environmental impact.  What else are they going to do with the Yorkshire Moors?

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

unless we can find a limitless source of energy.

I read a post on twitter that said if 1.2% of the Sahara desert was covered in solar panels, it would provide enough energy for the whole planet ongoing.

 

[Innovindil]

13 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I read a post on twitter that said if 1.2% of the Sahara desert was covered in solar panels, it would provide enough energy for the whole planet ongoing.

 

Couldn't resist some fag packet math for this.

 

1.2% of 9.2million km²  is 110,400km²

 

1000 metres in a km, so 110,400,000m²

 

Average solar panel is 2m² so it would take 55,200,000 solar panels

 

If we go by murican costs the best I could find puts it at $1000 a panel to install.

 

So $55.2billion would make it happen.

 

Now obviously there are far bigger problems than the cost, like actually doing it, and the infrastructure needed to cart the energy around the world, but it doesn't even seem like that much money does it? 

 

Might have missed a zero somewhere, cba to go through it again. 

[Izzy]

7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Couldn't resist some fag packet math for this.

 

1.2% of 9.2million km²  is 110,400km²

 

1000 metres in a km, so 110,400,000m²

 

Average solar panel is 2m² so it would take 55,200,000 solar panels

 

If we go by murican costs the best I could find puts it at $1000 a panel to install.

 

So $55.2billion would make it happen.

 

Now obviously there are far bigger problems than the cost, like actually doing it, and the infrastructure needed to cart the energy around the world, but it doesn't even seem like that much money does it? 

 

Might have missed a zero somewhere, cba to go through it again. 

Legendary effort there mate 

 

If those costs are correct then it’s small change in the grand scheme of things. Can only imagine it’s the infrastructure needed to make it feasible that’s the issue.

[ALC Fox]

Tories are convinced that rowing back on green pledges is the way to get re-elected at a general election in the wake of retaining their Uxbridge seat because of ULEZ expansion concerns.

 

If this happens, we are so screwed.

[kenny]

48 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Legendary effort there mate 

 

If those costs are correct then it’s small change in the grand scheme of things. Can only imagine it’s the infrastructure needed to make it feasible that’s the issue.

My wife has been working on the project that is building a cable from Morocco to the UK for this very reason.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xlinks_Morocco-UK_Power_Project#:~:text=If built%2C the 3%2C800 km,second phase due in 2031.

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

That's 300 pints a week.  I think they're perhaps overdoing it!

 

You could stop throwing away food that's out of date, and restrict the throwaway only to food that has gone off.  That might help.  As for meat eating, surely sheep don't have much environmental impact.  What else are they going to do with the Yorkshire Moors?

We only throw away food that is not safe to eat but we throw away 10x as much food compared to before kids when we had the time and head space to plan our meals and keep track of the food we had the dates and how safe to reheat etc.

 

As for sheep:

 

"Many people think beef is the worst type of meat for the planet, but lamb—aka baby sheep less than one year old—is even worse.

The EWG says it has the highest carbon footprint of all meats—one that's "50% higher than beef." And there's a reason for why cows and lamb have such a high environmental impact compared to chicken and turkey.

"Cattle and lamb are what we call ‘ruminants.' In the process of digesting food, they produce a lot of methane," said researcher Hannah Ritchie in a . "If we removed methane, their emissions would fall by around half."

According to the EGW, the reason lamb outweighs beef in terms of environmental impact is because lamb "produces less edible meat relative to the sheep’s live weight," the study reads"

[fox_up_north]

That Sahara desert plan would be absolutely incredible

[Claridge]

25 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

That Sahara desert plan would be absolutely incredible

Apart from the fact they only last 20 years, what do you do with them then. Be a hell of a recycling job and god knows the amount of energy needed to make and then dispose of them.

[Innovindil]

10 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Apart from the fact they only last 20 years, what do you do with them then. Be a hell of a recycling job and god knows the amount of energy needed to make and then dispose of them.

More like 25-30 years, and considering they pay themselves off after 6-10 years, that should be plenty left over to set up recycling for them. And considering the location, providing jobs around that area of the world would go down well for some I'd imagine.

[Grebfromgrebland]

35 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Apart from the fact they only last 20 years, what do you do with them then. Be a hell of a recycling job and god knows the amount of energy needed to make and then dispose of them.

Hopefully by then technology will have moved on sufficiently to not needing them replacing.