Tactics Under Maresca

[Lionator]

I get the impression Enzo is saying different things behind closed doors than in the press. 

 

Throwing his players publicly under the bus is not the way forward. But it's clear they go into a shell of some sort.

[jv1]

1 hour ago, Noahfence said:

I know it isn’t a simple as just scoring 2/3 and then shutting up shop but last night I genuinely believe we could’ve scored as many as we wanted in the first half if we kept the pressure on. There was a clear difference in how we played at 0-0 & 0-1. Just bizarre 

I think it is that simple- go and win the bloody game- if they score when your attacking then attack and score again- especially at this level where we have miles better players than the oppo- we have now done this whole go 1-0 up and then just sit and play backwards to many times for it not to be enzos tactics- once or twice maybe but its been at least 5 or 6 times now- the other obvious 3 were shef wed away , ipswich away and ipswich home- how do you not learn from those games that if you carry on doing it 9 times out of 10 you will concede an equalizer late on and stand no chance of any response

 

I find Enzos game management tactics utterly bizarre - the big questions are still completely relevant even if we are top- is he a genius? is he fortunate with the players we have ? is the league that crap that most of the time we will just be a bit better anyway? Are his methods only really for when you have superstar individuals who are brilliant on the ball and take their chances and this team definitely is not that ?

 

The jury is still massively out for me - Genius or Pep pretender?

[filbertway]

7 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

For me its now on the players. If he gets this over the line and he largely gets the recruitment he needs, i expect to not be seeing performances like QPR and Sunderland. I think quite a lot of our current first team (and i include KDH and Faes in that) aren't good enough technically to execute his strategy. Really wouldn't be surprised to see KDH sold in the summer as i think he is a problem right now.

 

 

KDH is an odd one, last night he did full 180 spins on the ball multiple times because he didn't fancy his chances of making a pass with his right foot. Frustrating as he has the energy and when he ball is on his left he's often dangerous. He'll struggle to be a regular in the prem for a successful possession based team if he can't sort out that glaring weakness.

 

Regardless though, KDH, Mavididi and Vardy were looking very dangerous in the first 15 yesterday. Then as soon as we scored there was a clear shift in approach. That's got to be on the manager, especially as nothing changed second half.

[filbertway]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I get the impression Enzo is saying different things behind closed doors than in the press. 

 

Throwing his players publicly under the bus is not the way forward. But it's clear they go into a shell of some sort.

He had half time to get his message across though if that was the case and he wasn't visibly frustrated at the team at all. 

 

As much as I'd like to believe that was the case, there's not really any evidence to support it.

[Koke]

Most of these players are gonna do nothing in the Premier League. This team are giving me Burnley vibes.

[Chelmofox]

12 minutes ago, bovril said:

This sounds a bit like Rodgers "I'm a coach not a magician" - if the players aren't good enough to play a certain way why play that way? Especially as we're talking about the Championship where teams including us are not going to have technically gifted players. 

But Enzo hasn't said that, so its an unfair comparison. Rodgers practically owned our recruitment and sought after broken players he could remould, and then said he wasnt a magician. Enzo is still having to factor in the previous regimes hangers on. 

 

He still has the right to treat this as a project and in the summer there will be a big clear out that he will be front and center of. 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

9 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

His lack of ruthless streak is going to be his undoing if he isn't careful. We got away with that big time and that's against a side in dire form who looked every bit worth five losses in a row. It was basically Sheffield Wednesday again without the equaliser.

 

Are we just shattered or what?

Maybe the new manager bounce is over.....at the start of the the season the players seemed happy and the goals were being scored.

Now some of the players on the pitch don't seem to as happy as they did, look abit frustrated and nervous.

While the subs aren't being utilised fully and often come on with 10 to 15 minutes to go, while when you look at teams like Ipswich and Leeds if it isn't going right their managers will bring on 3 subs and change the style with at least half an hour to go. 

If the us fans are now starting to ask questions about Enzo's management of games maybe the players are also thinking the same, this affecting their confidence. 🤷

[bovril]

59 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

But Enzo hasn't said that, so its an unfair comparison. Rodgers practically owned our recruitment and sought after broken players he could remould, and then said he wasnt a magician. Enzo is still having to factor in the previous regimes hangers on. 

 

He still has the right to treat this as a project and in the summer there will be a big clear out that he will be front and center of. 

If we were trying to implement a certain style of football for long term success that makes sense. If we are in as dire a financial situation as some claim then it's not a project, it's a must we get promoted. And the point stands that he has come into a Championship club which will obviously have a limited squad and needs to find a style that fits the players, not the other way round.  

[lcfcbluearmy]

1 hour ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Maybe the new manager bounce is over.....at the start of the the season the players seemed happy and the goals were being scored.

Now some of the players on the pitch don't seem to as happy as they did, look abit frustrated and nervous.

While the subs aren't being utilised fully and often come on with 10 to 15 minutes to go, while when you look at teams like Ipswich and Leeds if it isn't going right their managers will bring on 3 subs and change the style with at least half an hour to go. 

If the us fans are now starting to ask questions about Enzo's management of games maybe the players are also thinking the same, this affecting their confidence. 🤷

Or maybe the players are just worn and the international break will be a god send to get ndidi fit, vesterguard back from suspension, Ricardo fit and they realise that the tactics are fine and they just aren't playing them well. 

 

Or even they are just had a couple of dodgy points, we played well for 80 minutes of the leeds game, the second half of the Middlesbrough game and all of the Bournemouth game.

 

Yes we didn't win them all but we didn't play badly the only game we were completely poor in was the qpr game and yesterday's Sunderland game and we still won that.

 

I'm not saying people can't have questions but put it into a bit of context we have played some brilliant football this season and had a small blip comparing him to Rodgers is ridiculous 

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

I get the impression Enzo is saying different things behind closed doors than in the press. 

 

Throwing his players publicly under the bus is not the way forward. But it's clear they go into a shell of some sort.

Agree. There are multiple ears listening who need to be told things, perhaps the same things, in different ways.
 

Any signalling to the press/ fans by calling out players who underperform has the risk of upsetting his work force, like in any workplace, it’s a fine line.

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

If we were trying to implement a certain style of football for long term success that makes sense. If we are in as dire a financial situation as some claim then it's not a project, it's a must we get promoted. And the point stands that he has come into a Championship club which will obviously have a limited squad and needs to find a style that fits the players, not the other way round.  

You are assuming that any other approach other than Enzo's would have put us in the position we are now (5 points clear of 3rd). This strategy got us there, so imo the manager deserves the right to proceed with it, especially if he was promised a project. The manager gets more tools to play with following the international break (Riccy back, fit Ndidi, Vesty not suspended, rested 1st squad), so fingers crossed things wont be so limited.

[cruzFOX]

Enzo way is still the way to go but faster with more urgency and intensity until we tire than we revert to a modified hybrid version with more directness. This is player based too. I’m no pro coach but I can see he needs to modify his tactics based on recent results. The data is all there to see clearly.

[Dan LCFC]

6 hours ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

I don't really get this one. I've played a sport professionally (basketball, teen until my early 20s), 2 games a week, never once felt tired and in fact I wish we had back then 3 games a week. I was always excited for the next game and full of energy in match days with rotation minutes for me at the range of 34-37, big important games sometimes I was on the court full 40min.

I understand things have changed since but I think being tired is just an excuse especially when your job is actually your hobby and you earn millions from it. 

It's all relative though isn't it. If you're more tired than your opposition that is a disadvantage.

 

Said it at the time and stand by it but we needed a body or two in January. We lost a couple of heads in the squad and it's meant we can't rotate as effectively as others.

[Dan LCFC]

3 hours ago, filbertway said:

I am seeing teeny tiny red flags. I'm getting the same kind of vibe as I did from Rodgers after WBA. We were 3-0 up at half time and drew 2nd half 0-0. Post match he said he was disappointed with the first half and delighted with the 2nd because we were tighter and kept better control of the ball.

 

If you put a premium on not conceding chances over creating them, eventually players and fans will turn on that mindset, especially when it's not working.

 

At the minute he gets the benefit of the doubt and it's just something I'm logging mentally. If the pattern continues next season after he's had another summer to bring in his own players then it becomes a concern.

I can live with it against better sides but not in games like that. They were really poor, four defeats in a row going into that game and it wasn't hard to see why. We keep pressing them and we can have that probably wrapped up by half an hour. His attitude in that game last night was well off for me.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

6 hours ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

I don't really get this one. I've played a sport professionally (basketball, teen until my early 20s), 2 games a week, never once felt tired and in fact I wish we had back then 3 games a week. I was always excited for the next game and full of energy in match days with rotation minutes for me at the range of 34-37, big important games sometimes I was on the court full 40min.

I understand things have changed since but I think being tired is just an excuse especially when your job is actually your hobby and you earn millions from it. 

As a distinct contact sport, played on grass and outdoors, football is quite different in terms of injuries and the fatigue profile.

 

Additionally in your early 20’s you won’t feel the effects anywhere near a player who’s had a decade at the top level will.

 

It’s also not just physical fatigue at play here - mental fatigue can easily creep in.

[HighPeakFox]

Maybe enough injuries and loss of form & confidence have coincided. 

[Dahnsouff]

10 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

As a distinct contact sport, played on grass and outdoors, football is quite different in terms of injuries and the fatigue profile.

 

Additionally in your early 20’s you won’t feel the effects anywhere near a player who’s had a decade at the top level will.

 

It’s also not just physical fatigue at play here - mental fatigue can easily creep in.

I have been increasingly wondering about this, and if there is a significant jump in instruction under Enzo, could this is contributing quite significantly to mental fatigue in the team.

[filbertway]

20 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I can live with it against better sides but not in games like that. They were really poor, four defeats in a row going into that game and it wasn't hard to see why. We keep pressing them and we can have that probably wrapped up by half an hour. His attitude in that game last night was well off for me.

That's why it bought up memories of WBA - a team we were comfortably beating and looking like we could clock up 5 or 6 goals. Manager's livid because the opposition got in behind a couple of times and doesn't seem to care that we created a bunch of great chances.

 

Southgate v Croatia. Kyle walker came out and took a minute to take a throw in, clearly looking to waste time. This was in the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half.

 

Forcing your team to adopt a negative approach, despite seeing that they're superior players and are creating good clear chances can't be good confidence.

[orangecity23]

I think we have a lack of depth in certain positions, caused by a somewhat imbalanced squad, and are also feeling the effects of an intense run of games with minimal recovery and importantly, training time to sharpen things up.

 

Central midfield, wings and full back are where we don't have lots of good quality cover, so we are lacking options to get fresh legs in the front of the team towards the end of games. We have cover at striker and centre back, and have been subbing on fresh strikers, but we don't have the options for fresh 8s and quality wingers, and we've had to over play Ricardo lately as well. Fingers crossed we can get a good result on Saturday, and hopefully things improve a bit when we get a breather to get some players back and rest up the key players to get their energy back.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

31 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

I think we have a lack of depth in certain positions, caused by a somewhat imbalanced squad, and are also feeling the effects of an intense run of games with minimal recovery and importantly, training time to sharpen things up.

 

Central midfield, wings and full back are where we don't have lots of good quality cover, so we are lacking options to get fresh legs in the front of the team towards the end of games. We have cover at striker and centre back, and have been subbing on fresh strikers, but we don't have the options for fresh 8s and quality wingers, and we've had to over play Ricardo lately as well. Fingers crossed we can get a good result on Saturday, and hopefully things improve a bit when we get a breather to get some players back and rest up the key players to get their energy back.

I agree on the depth situation to a degree… but this is where Enzo’s flexibility in approach starts coming into question.

 

If you don’t have the players to do what you want to do - change it to something the players you have can do effectively.

For example, we’re overstocked on centrehalf’s, suggesting a formation switch to 3 at the back on certain occasions wouldn’t be a bad idea - especially as in that scenario you could have one of them step forward into midfield to create the desired overload.

 

We also have 4 strikers of quality in the squad - so playing two up top could also be an option in terms of effectively distributing game time across the squad. 

Personally, where I am with Enzo is that he’s ok for now, but I wouldn’t be too disappointed if, assuming things go well this season, he’s pinched from us in the summer.

 

I don’t see us being able to make huge personnel changes this summer and I think we’ll need a manager that’s willing to mix up their approach both overall and during a game.

Edited 6 March by DJ Barry Hammond

[Guppys Love Child]

4 hours ago, jv1 said:

I think it is that simple- go and win the bloody game- if they score when your attacking then attack and score again- especially at this level where we have miles better players than the oppo- we have now done this whole go 1-0 up and then just sit and play backwards to many times for it not to be enzos tactics- once or twice maybe but its been at least 5 or 6 times now- the other obvious 3 were shef wed away , ipswich away and ipswich home- how do you not learn from those games that if you carry on doing it 9 times out of 10 you will concede an equalizer late on and stand no chance of any response

 

I find Enzos game management tactics utterly bizarre - the big questions are still completely relevant even if we are top- is he a genius? is he fortunate with the players we have ? is the league that crap that most of the time we will just be a bit better anyway? Are his methods only really for when you have superstar individuals who are brilliant on the ball and take their chances and this team definitely is not that ?

 

The jury is still massively out for me - Genius or Pep pretender?

Yes I think that's a big part of the problem if I'm honest.

 

But.

 

Also his inflexibility to even consider budging from EnzoBall or even slightly adapting it when something is not working (for what is now a few matches in a row,) whether that's due to the loss of preferred players because of  injury or suspension  or the fact our opposition has adapted to EnzoBall to a degree, its still frustrating, and dare I say it a bit one dimensional and nieve not to look for alternatives to combat hindrances. 

[Dan LCFC]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

That's why it bought up memories of WBA - a team we were comfortably beating and looking like we could clock up 5 or 6 goals. Manager's livid because the opposition got in behind a couple of times and doesn't seem to care that we created a bunch of great chances.

 

Southgate v Croatia. Kyle walker came out and took a minute to take a throw in, clearly looking to waste time. This was in the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half.

 

Forcing your team to adopt a negative approach, despite seeing that they're superior players and are creating good clear chances can't be good confidence.

I think it is partly what started the collapse under Rodgers. I want to think with more of his own players he wouldn't take this attitude but I don't really believe that. Anyone who watched the first 20 minutes could see the gulf between the two sides. We very much opted into that yesterday and were quite lucky to not be punished.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Maybe enough injuries and loss of form & confidence have coincided. 

Reported. Far too sensible.

 

 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

 

 

4 hours ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

Or maybe the players are just worn and the international break will be a god send to get ndidi fit, vesterguard back from suspension, Ricardo fit and they realise that the tactics are fine and they just aren't playing them well. 

 

Or even they are just had a couple of dodgy points, we played well for 80 minutes of the leeds game, the second half of the Middlesbrough game and all of the Bournemouth game.

 

Yes we didn't win them all but we didn't play badly the only game we were completely poor in was the qpr game and yesterday's Sunderland game and we still won that.

 

I'm not saying people can't have questions but put it into a bit of context we have played some brilliant football this season and had a small blip comparing him to Rodgers is ridiculous 

We seem abit jaded and tired in the second half of games and Southampton also seem to to get knackered in the second half. 

Both teams play possession based football but seems Russell Martin has learnt and adapted to changing the way his team play by bringing on 3 subs early on in the second half if his teams 1 or 2 goals down.

Enzo just seems abit rely to change the formation or bring on subs that can make a difference.

[phoneticerror]

Out of interest, how long do you like he’ll last as manager if we go up? I’m not criticising, just interested in views.