Tactics Under Maresca

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Simmo86 said:

Could somebody who knows far more about tactics then I do tell why them playing man to man will make it harder for us, I would be thinking that although I guess players will be more tightly marked surely it leaves more space if you get it right?

If you win enough man-to-man duels the system played gets circumvented. High risk, high reward. Atalanta under Gasperini used to do this and got to the Champions League Quarter Finals. They could get beaten 5-0 by Liverpool (lost too many duels) or beat PSG (won more of them).

 

Leeds under Bielsa did the same thing.

I'm simplifying, but that's the basic premise. The way to beat man-to-man is fast passing and playing it around the corner. Beat the press = team completely open.

 

 

Edited 11 August 2023 by StriderHiryu

[Steve Earle]

10 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

If you win enough man-to-man duels the system played gets circumvented. High risk, high reward. Atalanta under Gasperini used to do this and got to the Champions League Quarter Finals. They could get beaten 5-0 by Liverpool (lost too many duels) or beat PSG (won more of them).

 

Leeds under Bielsa did the same thing.

I'm simplifying, but that's the basic premise. The way to beat man-to-man is fast passing and playing it around the corner. Beat the press = team completely open.

 

 

Witness the two games we had against them in their first season back in the PL - a comfortable 4-goal win away when we got through their press at will, then a home defeat when too many of our players weren’t at the races at all.

[KFS]

Surely Huddersfield going man to man with us only ends one way 

[Wymsey]

1 minute ago, KFS said:

Surely Huddersfield going man to man with us only ends one way 

A couple of red cards for them, hopefully.

[Big_Nige]

8 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Witness the two games we had against them in their first season back in the PL - a comfortable 4-goal win away when we got through their press at will, then a home defeat when too many of our players weren’t at the races at all.

Can’t remember losing to them at home? Think we played them 4 times while they were in the Prem. 3 comfortable wins and an away draw where Maguire got turned and ran away from from a striker that was a quick as Steve Howard 

 

Seem to remember Adrien Silva finally making his debut against them at home on New Year’s Day 

[Simmo86]

14 minutes ago, Big_Nige said:

Can’t remember losing to them at home? Think we played them 4 times while they were in the Prem. 3 comfortable wins and an away draw where Maguire got turned and ran away from from a striker that was a quick as Steve Howard 

 

Seem to remember Adrien Silva finally making his debut against them at home on New Year’s Day 

Yeah we got beat 3-1.

 

Took the lead with Barnes early doors and thought it was going to be a walkover, they then bullied us to death.

Edited 11 August 2023 by Simmo86

[Paninistickers]

32 minutes ago, KFS said:

Surely Huddersfield going man to man with us only ends one way 

 

50 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

If you win enough man-to-man duels the system played gets circumvented. High risk, high reward. Atalanta under Gasperini used to do this and got to the Champions League Quarter Finals. They could get beaten 5-0 by Liverpool (lost too many duels) or beat PSG (won more of them).

 

Leeds under Bielsa did the same thing.

I'm simplifying, but that's the basic premise. The way to beat man-to-man is fast passing and playing it around the corner. Beat the press = team completely open.

 

 

Also helps if players are physically stronger - Wilf and Kels and KDH for example - and / or can receive the ball when marked...Praet is good at that tbf, Styles (I know, I know, but that's his name for me. It just stuck) and Ricardo need to be en pointe for that. 

[Big_Nige]

15 minutes ago, Simmo86 said:

Yeah we got beat 3-1.

 

Took the lead with Barnes early doors and thought it was going to be a walkover, they then bullied us to death.

That was Leeds a couple of years ago wasn’t it? 
 

We beat Huddersfield 3-0 and 3-1 at home

[Simmo86]

10 minutes ago, Big_Nige said:

That was Leeds a couple of years ago wasn’t it? 
 

We beat Huddersfield 3-0 and 3-1 at home

Think he was talking about Leeds and Bielsa when they went man to man, rather than Huddersfield. 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Steve Earle said:

Witness the two games we had against them in their first season back in the PL - a comfortable 4-goal win away when we got through their press at will, then a home defeat when too many of our players weren’t at the races at all.

Bang on the money. But don't expect Huddersfield to come out and be gung-ho. It's more that wherever any one of our players goes, a Huddersfield player will be their shadow.

 

I expect the entire game to be played out in their half, with the occasional counter break situation. But rather than sitting in a deep block, they will chase us around.  On paper, the quality gap should kill them.

[Big_Nige]

44 minutes ago, Simmo86 said:

Think he was talking about Leeds and Bielsa when they went man to man, rather than Huddersfield. 

Ah my bad, though we were talking Huddersfield 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

I am not sure you can read jack sh1t into media stuff like this really. 

 

He said after the Burton game that teams being aggressive and on the front foot against us actually meant there will be more space for us to play his style of football.  As you mentioned in your post.. 

 

But obviously he isn't going to come out and say that prior to Huddersfield.  

Agreed, read between the lines and he's saying 'Huddersfield are a bunch of thugs, who will unapologetically get stuck in at every opportunity.'

[richard123]

Just watched his latest press conference. You can tell that this guy lives and breathes football. You can already see from some comments that he may be young to management but is far more clued up with the modern game than most more experienced managers. 

 

Those that get frustrated when the ball goes back. Listen to his press conference when he talks about attacking and finding spaces, this will be to produce chances where we have a good chance to score. If we attack and there is 11 men behind the ball, he wants it brough back, invite the opposition to press and then find the solution to score, find the spaces. 

 

I really like Enzo. Already seems a class act. Also has some balls. He gives the impression of 'it's my decision' and he has a clear plan. Won't all be roses this first half of the season but when it clicks we will be a very good team and we should bounce straight back up. Also I think he will keep us up when that happens.

 

I said it before but relegation was the best thing that could happen to us. We needed a complete team and management reset and to build a new identity, and some time out of the spotlight to do this.

 

 

[Steve Earle]

51 minutes ago, richard123 said:

Just watched his latest press conference. You can tell that this guy lives and breathes football. You can already see from some comments that he may be young to management but is far more clued up with the modern game than most more experienced managers. 

 

Those that get frustrated when the ball goes back. Listen to his press conference when he talks about attacking and finding spaces, this will be to produce chances where we have a good chance to score. If we attack and there is 11 men behind the ball, he wants it brough back, invite the opposition to press and then find the solution to score, find the spaces. 

 

I really like Enzo. Already seems a class act. Also has some balls. He gives the impression of 'it's my decision' and he has a clear plan. Won't all be roses this first half of the season but when it clicks we will be a very good team and we should bounce straight back up. Also I think he will keep us up when that happens.

 

I said it before but relegation was the best thing that could happen to us. We needed a complete team and management reset and to build a new identity, and some time out of the spotlight to do this.

 

 

Yet we have the same Chair, CEO, DoF...

[richard123]

17 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Yet we have the same Chair, CEO, DoF...

Same 3 that won us the Prem and FA Cup. Not saying they are right to stay but what changed. Did they lose the job skills they had. Or did we have several players who didnt give a shit? Along with a manager who ran out of ideas and stayed pa's his expiry date. 

 

Prob a combination. 

 

A few bad apples can ruin a whole apple tree. 

 

 

[davieG]

21 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Yet we have the same Chair, CEO, DoF...

But not guided football wise be a self-aggrandising egotistical in it solely for me nob. well we hope not.  

[Steve Earle]

1 hour ago, richard123 said:

Same 3 that won us the Prem and FA Cup. Not saying they are right to stay but what changed. Did they lose the job skills they had. Or did we have several players who didnt give a shit? Along with a manager who ran out of ideas and stayed pa's his expiry date. 

 

Prob a combination. 

 

A few bad apples can ruin a whole apple tree. 

 

 

Not quite. Our Chair in 2016 was different gravy. We won the FA Cup when our death spiral had already begun.

[Lionator]

Hmm what tactics? 

[Dames]

Can see what he’s trying to do but clearly work to be done. Not happy with him putting 2 keepers on the bench to play petty games with the board. We are paying international players big wages, use them at the very least. Echos of Rodgers last season with that attitude. 

[iancognito]

46 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Hmm what tactics? 

 

You don't just wander into Warnockland smash 4 goals and play them off the park. Bit clever saying "what tactics" but we've played 3 games in 6 days and dominated the ball every game.

 

31 minutes ago, Dames said:

Can see what he’s trying to do but clearly work to be done. Not happy with him putting 2 keepers on the bench to play petty games with the board. We are paying international players big wages, use them at the very least. Echos of Rodgers last season with that attitude. 

It's not games with the board though is it? He's clearly telling the ones not involved to get themselves out the door. Our business in is limited unless those international players get paid elsewhere. He's already said the squad is too big and we need at least 5 more out to get 3-5 in.

[Dames]

12 minutes ago, iancognito said:

 

You don't just wander into Warnockland smash 4 goals and play them off the park. Bit clever saying "what tactics" but we've played 3 games in 6 days and dominated the ball every game.

 

It's not games with the board though is it? He's clearly telling the ones not involved to get themselves out the door. Our business in is limited unless those international players get paid elsewhere. He's already said the squad is too big and we need at least 5 more out to get 3-5 in.

The sole responsibility of getting players out of the door lies with Rudkin ans not the players in question. You play games with Rudkin and the only one that loses is the club. Rodgers tried the same thing last season and ended up having to bring players back in from the cold after treating them a similar way and it didn’t work out. We pay these guys big wages, at least keep them involved and in the shop window. 

[foxfanazer]

Still a few teething problems but we've at the very least stopped haemorrhaging goals. We still concede a lot of chances but all in all we look more secure. 

 

 

We need to get smarter in the final third as we squander some really easy chances to lay it off to others for tap ins. 

 

 

I'm fully on board though I have to say

[BenTheFox]

I can see what he's trying to do and I think with time and with a few new signings it will pay off. However, at times is looks like the players are almost trying to play the system too much rather than what is in front of them. 

[Aleksz]

The more I watch us the more I see elements more of De Zerbi in Enzo’s ideology than Pep - in terms of slowing the play down, walking/standing on the ball, baiting a team out of their shape and looking to transition into the spaces they leave. 

 

But that being said, even Pep is going in that direction if last night is anything to go by. De Zerbi is changing the game.

 

@StriderHiryu thoughts?

[Lcfc-1992]

I know we’ve been told not to expect fast pace attacks all the time but we still seem to come back when we don’t need to