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Tuna

Southgate stepping down after Euros

By Tuna, in General Football and Sport

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MPH said:

I know he has his army of haters… but it is often results that you get judged upon. His methods and having his  favorites gets my goat… but I can’t deny he’s done better than a few have recently. Fair play to him…

Yep, the numbers and results are always the best arbiter and they will say he has done better at international tournaments than any manager since Ramsey. People might go on about the quality of players he has to accomplish that, but then the "Golden Generation" never got that far either.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Yep, the numbers and results are always the best arbiter and they will say he has done better at international tournaments than any manager since Ramsey. People might go on about the quality of players he has to accomplish that, but then the "Golden Generation" never got that far either.

He has won nothing.  Simple as that.  Well past time to move on.  

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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Just now, leicsmac said:

:dunno: Fair enough, that's between folks and their own consciences, then. I don't think that something so subjective can be really used to pass judgement in a hard fashion, though.

Yes.  I expect Eddie Howe will be available to take over by the time the Euros are done, probably time for a nice 6 month holiday too..

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grobyfox1990

grobyfox1990

Posted
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6 hours ago, MPH said:

I know he has his army of haters… but it is often results that you get judged upon. His methods and having his  favorites gets my goat… but I can’t deny he’s done better than a few have recently. Fair play to him…

Context, apples and oranges etc. I don’t hate him but he’s had an unbelievably talented crop of players, easy draws and a home tournament in 2021 and done nothing. If I get a load more resource and budget at work and the competition weaken, more would be expected of me than ‘did better than the last guy mate’ 

 

It’s well past his time to go, hope he does 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Context, apples and oranges etc. I don’t hate him but he’s had an unbelievably talented crop of players, easy draws and a home tournament in 2021 and done nothing. If I get a load more resource and budget at work and the competition weaken, more would be expected of me than ‘did better than the last guy mate’ 

 

It’s well past his time to go, hope he does 

....and previous managers have had these advantages and done worse.

 

Again, I think it's simply irrational to deliver special opprobrium to the guy by comparison.

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grobyfox1990

grobyfox1990

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9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

....and previous managers have had these advantages and done worse.

 

Again, I think it's simply irrational to deliver special opprobrium to the guy by comparison.

Did they? I don’t follow England as closely as city but in my memory I can’t remember the 3 things coming together at once. 
 

1996 was a home tournament, was the draw as easy as 2018 and 2021 and were our players at the same level global club level? I was too young 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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3 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Did they? I don’t follow England as closely as city but in my memory I can’t remember the 3 things coming together at once. 
 

1996 was a home tournament, was the draw as easy as 2018 and 2021 and were our players at the same level global club level? I was too young 

It's not just having all these advantages, it's a matter of the degree of each advantage. For me the current squad isn't as talented as either 1996 or 2004-2006, the draws in 2018 and 2021 were about as easy as anything else in the 2010's and of course we had the home tournament in 1996.

 

The point being that other managers have had the same advantages that Southgate had had to varying degrees (sometimes greater IMO) and they've all done worse. Of course, judging such advantages is entirely subjective and therefore flawed which is why I tend to stick to just numbers when judging such matters anyhow. They don't lie, even when people's interpretations of them try to.

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