The Enzo Thread

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, lcfcsnow said:

This is part of the problem. Sometimes we attack with 5, sometimes 6. He mentions this alot. But it just means its always the same players allowed to attack and they're trying the same things every match the whole system is predictable. We need to move the opposition more through our players movement, not just moving the football.

The thing is, it's nothing new. Go through most of the successful elite teams who may vary in the way they play, they'll only have a certain number of players attack. The key is getting the right ingredients to the attack.

 

I'm still convinced our slow play dulls the senses of our attackers and that's a causation of our failure to convert, compared to more fluid football.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

His ideas aren't the single problem, it's his flat out refusal to alter it despite a dire quarter of the season. Plenty of managers align to his way of playing more with a touch of pragmatism and flexibility.

 

Our board would be utterly stupid to have not twigged that we have a disconnect with the signings we often make and the rigid way the managers we appoint play, it's stupidity.

No idea what you are thinking as this board is obviously stupid

The  again, people wanting Enzo gone, to be reset and go again, just in a much worse financial position, playing the exact same way are not thinking clearly. Or worse, operating under some weird blinkered belief the board will have a change of spots and go in a different direction, that is just delusional, sorry.

[lcfcsnow]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

The thing is, it's nothing new. Go through most of the successful elite teams who may vary in the way they play, they'll only have a certain number of players attack. The key is getting the right ingredients to the attack.

 

I'm still convinced our slow play dulls the senses of our attackers and that's a causation of our failure to convert, compared to more fluid football.

Momentum is key, but we choose to avoid it. How many times do we get a corner and the player taking it (Maddison started this, but KDH is also doing it now) dawdles over as slow as possible. The opposition are 100% set by the time we take it. I don't mean sprint over to take it, but at least jog over. By the time we take the corner any excitement in the crowd has diminished. It's the same when there's an opportunity to counter attack, we choose not to more often than not. I don't see the benefit in letting the opposition players all get back into their positions, other than us wanting to score our way and not through oppositions mistakes.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

No idea what you are thinking as this board is obviously stupid

The  again, people wanting Enzo gone, to be reset and go again, just in a much worse financial position, playing the exact same way are not thinking clearly. Or worse, operating under some weird blinkered belief the board will have a change of spots and go in a different direction, that is just delusional, sorry.

Enzo working under financial constraints is a huge concern. His rigid system needs investment, which he won't get. He's not shown any desire to play to the strengths of what he does have and I'm not convinced he's that strong a coach that improves players significantly. I don't see many players we already owned that's particularly improved under him, even at a lower level. KDH might have a shout but I don't see much to his game that's been improved consistently. 

[Lionator]

40 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I've just finished listening to Dominic Wells on the BBC Radio Leics podcast with Owynn and Piper and some of his explanations for why Maresca is doing what he's doing is extremely insightful and to a degree I understand.

 

However, we've taken 10 points from 10 games and in that time we've stopped scoring and we've started to ship more goals, we leave no stone unturned in our pursuit of losing to any type of team.

 

If anything I'm becoming more angrier the longer the last two defeats have been. I keep hearing that Millwall and Plymouth are fighting for their lives but that just highlights two inferior teams to us who were under huge pressure and yet they beat us. Why is trying to stay up any easier to get across the line than promotion? We've massively flopped once again, whereas in opening two thirds of the season our record against the fodder of this league was majestic and likewise our away form in general and yet in the last 6 weeks we've become an utter abomination in such circumstances.

 

Going back to the tactical explanations of Maresca's system, I get that we attack with a 5 and try and defend with a 5 to ensure we aren't out of position as much in either scenario but the elephant in the room currently is we are extremely poor at both elements of the game. 10 games is nearly a quarter of the season and yet over the last 2 months we are tracking just above relegation form, which for this group of players and club is utterly diabolical.

 

Wells explained that the issue with us for example going with two up front is we have to sacrifice a central midfielder which brings its own problems in the building phase of our play and also it still doesn't increase the number of attackers that we attack in a pack with (5).

 

My immediate thoughts here are playing to our strengths though. We have on our books collectively the best 4 strikers in the league and a central midfield that's less strong and a selection of wingers that depth wise aren't as strong either. We are essentially relying on players who aren't comfortable at scoring and I think this is very evident. KDH and Mavididi have scored a good amount for their respective positions but went 2 months of struggling and we the team suffered. Our other midfielders and wingers just don't score enough, now this cannot be fixed straight the way so I am now even more certain we should change the way we play a little to try and get across the line with fielding more natural goalscorers.

 

Cannon simply has to start, he's an instinctive finisher which ironically is what Daka has shown to be in his career if you discount his struggles at Leicester. Importantly, both have excelled in a front two. Daka always played in a two at RB Salzburg and his best games in his 1st season at Leicester tended to be alongside another forward. At the very least this should be the different scenario that Enzo has referred to as us possibly needing to find between now and the end of the season. We're 5 games down the road since he said that before Bristol City and despite losing 3 of those and being behind for large periods, not to mention the two wins where we didn't have it all our own way he's shown scant evidence of a different way of playing.

 

He seemingly made one minor adjustment that may not have been seen by the naked eye in pushing Ricardo in to the attacking 6 and left us more vulnerable to the counter after we'd gone 1 behind vs Plymouth. I personally think we're mostly vulnerable because of the inverted full back deployment and Wout Faes horrific form. A back to basics approach with defending from a positional point of view but not necessarily in the usage of the ball is long overdue.

 

The stubbornness of Maresca and him seemingly not having as many players as he needs for this rigid system is as much a warning sign that he's not suitable here in the short to medium term as is the overall poor showing in 2024. I just don't think he's pragmatic enough for either division next season and I'm scared he'll not get us over the line which makes me utterly convinced he should have gone this week, as crazy as that sounds.

 

 

The problem is here, you’re basically asking Isaac Newton to stop believing in gravity. 
 

we know Enzo sees football as an art and a science. His system is what he’ll live and die on unfortunately. 

[Dahnsouff]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Enzo working under financial constraints is a huge concern. His rigid system needs investment, which he won't get. He's not shown any desire to play to the strengths of what he does have and I'm not convinced he's that strong a coach that improves players significantly. I don't see many players we already owned that's particularly improved under him, even at a lower level. KDH might have a shout but I don't see much to his game that's been improved consistently. 

It is a concern, that cannot be in doubt, as the system he insists on playing requires high level skills. The stewardship this year feels like the closing of an act, the end of this particular show. With that in mind i would rather he were replaced next year with a builder supported by a more football able mgmt team above them, and this would be regardless of whatever league we find ourselves in. I just cannot see because as limited in his approach Enzo is, our board is no better, and that is what ultimately matters.

[gurru991]

10 minutes ago, Lionator said:

The problem is here, you’re basically asking Isaac Newton to stop believing in gravity. 
 

we know Enzo sees football as an art and a science. His system is what he’ll live and die on unfortunately. 

It's basically worshipping at the Church of Pep & that system requires very, very talented players .We do not have that level of talent & we will be horribly exposed if we make it back to the Premier.  Good managers are able to adapt & Enzo has shown that he cannot adapt.

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Enzo working under financial constraints is a huge concern. His rigid system needs investment, which he won't get. He's not shown any desire to play to the strengths of what he does have and I'm not convinced he's that strong a coach that improves players significantly. I don't see many players we already owned that's particularly improved under him, even at a lower level. KDH might have a shout but I don't see much to his game that's been improved consistently. 

Any system is going to need investment and the constraints are going to hurt anyone who would come here.  Everyone is obsessed with Burnley right now, but other systems being used at the bottom end of the table are struggling (including the 2 other promoted teams). Also look at Dycheball and whatever Forest supposedly play.  Dyche can't get a sniff of anything (well other than his own bacon flavoured head) - the same Dyche loads of people were saying was decent and only needed some good players to show what he can do.

 

If we go up, the key objective next season is survival, which is going to be made even harder when we get feked over with points deductions. People talking about inverting fullbacks needing infinite resources and elite players are missing the point. The big resources are needed for Man City to compete as the elite in the PL and the Champions League. We need enough to be able to compete with a certain type of PL team. I feel there is a ripple of arrogance in here that a manager playing a different system would somehow have us top 10 in PL. It's the same arrogance stating we have the best championship team ever, and my nan would get us promoted.  

 

Like it or not, Enzo was given a project and he is still carrying most of another managers squad (many who have relegation hanging over them) and one that was made weaker in January. I do feel it's disingenuous to abandon that right now at the first hurdle, after the start the project gave this club. Sure, he stock has dropped massively in my own eyes but i can also understand why he has stuck with what had been working, especially as it worked in the last 2 home games. I still think he has the right to see the next 4 games out and we should all get behind the team. If we get this done, a huge spring clean is going to happen no matter what and difficult times lurk.

 

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We have on our books collectively the best 4 strikers in the league ......

Sorry - but that's an awful take. Don't disagree that our midfield is found wanting mind you.

 

Edited 17 April by Chelmofox

[CheeseHead]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

 

I'm still convinced our slow play dulls the senses of our attackers and that's a causation of our failure to convert, compared to more fluid football.

I've long thought that this 'dulling of senses' applies more to our defence. They're used to slowly and calmy passing the ball around at the back, with 75% possession. As soon as the opposition apply some speed, urgency and chaos into their attack (once they realised this is how they should play against us), our defence is somewhat pannicked and cannot cope as well as they might have had they been more in tune with a quicker tempo of the game.

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Any system is going to need investment and the constraints are going to hurt anyone who would come here.  Everyone is obsessed with Burnley right now, but other systems being used at the bottom end of the table are struggling (including the 2 other promoted teams). Also look at Dycheball and whatever Forest supposedly play.  Dyche can't get a sniff of anything (well other than his own bacon head) - the same Dyche loads of people were saying was decent and only needed some good players to show what he can do.

 

If we go up, the key objective next season is survival, which is going to be made even harder when we get feked over with points deductions. People talking about inverting fullbacks needing infinite resources and elite players are missing the point. The big resources are needed for Man City to compete as the elite in the PL and the Champions League. We need enough to be able to compete with a certain type of PL team. I feel there is a ripple of arrogance in here that a manager playing a different system would somehow have us top 10 in PL. It's the same arrogance stating we have the best championship team ever, and my nan would get us promoted.  

 

Like it or not, Enzo was given a project and he is still carrying most of another managers squad (many who have relegation hanging over them) and one that was made weaker in January. I do feel it's disingenuous to abandon that right now at the first hurdle, after the start the project gave this club. Sure, he stock has dropped massively in my own eyes but i can also understand why he has stuck with what had been working, especially as it worked in the last 2 home games. I still think he has the right to see the next 4 games out and we should all get behind the team. If we get this done, a huge spring clean is going to happen no matter what and difficult times lurk.

 

Sorry - but that's an awful take. Don't disagree that our midfield is found wanting mind you.

 

Name me a team in this division with 4 better strikers than we have. There aren't any. 

[Chelmofox]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Name me a team in this division with 4 better strikers than we have. There aren't any. 

One is 37 and if trains will be out injured and can't play 90 minutes (love him so much though), 1 falls over constantly and has the physicality of a newt, 1 has been doggo for years and can't wait to get out of the club, and the other has been bought as a future prospect and has spent most of the season with a f4cked back.

 

I don't want 4. Give me what Leeds have got any day of the week. 

Edited 17 April by Chelmofox

[gurru991]

13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Name me a team in this division with 4 better strikers than we have. There aren't any. 

We have 4 very average strikers & what we really need is 2 good strikers.

[Ric Flair]

15 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

One is 37 and if trains will be out injured and can't play 90 minutes (love him so much though), 1 falls over constantly and has the physicality of a newt, 1 has been doggo for years and can't wait to get out of the club, and the other has been bought as a future prospect and has spent most of the season with a f4cked back.

 

I don't want 4. Give me what Leeds have got any day of the week. 

Leeds 5 strikers have scored 32 goals this season from a whopping 8,708 minutes. Leicester's 4 strikers have scored 32 in just 4,487 minutes. I'd say both teams strikers have underperformed to boot. Piroe doesn't look to have settled there yet, Rutter just doesn't score enough and Bamford is very much an Iheanacho type baffling striker. 

 

Vardy and Iheanacho were PL proven and Daka ought to absolutely piss it at this level but after a strong December and early Feb he's fallen apart. Cannon hasn't been given anywhere near enough football which is frustrating.

 

 

[Chelmofox]

Just now, gurru991 said:

We have 4 very average strikers & what we really need is 2 good strikers.

We have the goat who still has the ability to produce a bit of magic, but cannot be relied on to be clinical or force something out of anything anymore. Enzo even admitted training time is now managed. Games like Bristol should be the wake up call that we cant be relying on Vardy anymore.  He was awful that game. Its worth pointing out that Vardy's last goal that changed a game was against Hull (we were already 2-1 up against Norwich).

 

Daka hasn't kicked on in the English game. Enzo excluded him for a reason and when he came back in the side (because everyone else was f4cked) he surprised everyone by being clinical and also offering something defences weren't expecting to see. However, hes regressed quickly since Afcon and we can't rely on him for anything. It's not confidence, its a lack of application and an inability to deal with pressure,  and i think he is only being picked because we cant play Vardy all the time and he trusts the other 2 less. Daka's last goal that changed a game was against Watford (10th Feb!!!)

 

Im not writing anything about Nacho anymore.  I think something significant has happened behind the scenes this season and really wish we had offloaded in the summer. 

 

Cannon is the outlier. Obviously, the foxestalk theory of 'the one not playing must be the one who is going to save the day' has kicked in. I've liked what little ive seen (that goal against Millwall was great), but nothing suggests he deserves to be considered one of the best forwards in the Championship. I think he will get better though, and hope we will get good things from him in the future. However, i think this injury has been a bigger issue than let on, and his time is being managed.

 

I do expect to see Cannon or Vardy start on Saturday. I don't think we will see Daka start in the final 4 games, and there will be a significant effort to offload him in the summer no matter what.

 

Its all very average.

[Ric Flair]

17 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

We have 4 very average strikers & what we really need is 2 good strikers.

I wouldn't say they are average at this level, they have underperformed or some of them have. Vardy for example aged 37 has done what's expected of him really.

[Chelmofox]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Leeds 5 strikers have scored 32 goals this season from a whopping 8,708 minutes. Leicester's 4 strikers have scored 32 in just 4,487 minutes. I'd say both teams strikers have underperformed to boot. Piroe doesn't look to have settled there yet, Rutter just doesn't score enough and Bamford is very much an Iheanacho type baffling striker. 

 

Vardy and Iheanacho were PL proven and Daka ought to absolutely piss it at this level but after a strong December and early Feb he's fallen apart. Cannon hasn't been given anywhere near enough football which is frustrating.

I'm double posting - but do you not think Cannon's injuries has meant they've had to really manage his appearances. I presume match fitness is a problem.

 

With Nacho - PL proven means nothing. You can't live off reputation. 

Edited 17 April by Chelmofox

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

I'm double posting - but do you not think Cannon's injuries has meant they've had to really manage his appearances. I presume match fitness is a problem.

Possibly, but I don't think that's why he was pretty quickly demoted when Daka got back from AFCON. 

 

The thing with 3 of our 4 strikers is, they all have proven track records in a front two. Daka was obscene in a front two at Salzburg, like Haaland type form and also his best form in his 1st seaspn here was usually in a front two. Iheanacho has consistently delivered in a front 2, most notably his 19 goals in the final half of 2020/21 and Cannon played in a 2 at Preston last season where he got 8 I think it was in 20 games.

[Chelmofox]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Possibly, but I don't think that's why he was pretty quickly demoted when Daka got back from AFCON. 

 

The thing with 3 of our 4 strikers is, they all have proven track records in a front two. Daka was obscene in a front two at Salzburg, like Haaland type form and also his best form in his 1st seaspn here was usually in a front two. Iheanacho has consistently delivered in a front 2, most notably his 19 goals in the final half of 2020/21 and Cannon played in a 2 at Preston last season where he got 8 I think it was in 20 games.

Daka deserved to be picked based on his pre afcon form though. There were still assists and goals until the Sheff Weds game (assist against Swansea, 2 goals against Stoke, 1 goal against Watford). It all fell apart for Daka following the Leeds game (that f4cking game!!). 1 game later and Cannons injured and Vardy's game time has to be managed.

 

This 4 have never been consistently 'right', certainly since.

Edited 17 April by Chelmofox

[Beachyboy]

If we dont trust any of the 4 players how about trying Mavididi as a striker and putting Albrighton in the team?

[Beachyboy]

If the strikers play better in a 2, why cant Nacho play as one of the two almost in the Shinji role between Midfield and attack a 4-4-1-1

Edited 17 April by Beachyboy

[FLAN]

10 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

If we dont trust any of the 4 players how about trying Mavididi as a striker and putting Albrighton in the team?

I can’t bear to watch his silly little step overs as he bears down on goal more often thanks 

[Mendi]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/27386889/enzo-maresca-leicester-manager-sevilla-link/

[gurru991]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I wouldn't say they are average at this level, they have underperformed or some of them have. Vardy for example aged 37 has done what's expected of him really.

Vardy is good for a 37 year old but very average  for a championship striker. The definition of average may be "under performing".. !!

[ozleicester]

Ive been more entertained reading this thrad than watching us play

[Lambert09]

5 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

I'm double posting - but do you not think Cannon's injuries has meant they've had to really manage his appearances. I presume match fitness is a problem.

 

With Nacho - PL proven means nothing. You can't live off reputation. 

I can’t see that being the case with Cannon as he’s really just not getting a look in. If he was getting on for 15 mins or something you’d think maybe that was the case.

 

But let’s face it, he wasn’t used until he had to be used. Then as soon as enzo got an excuse to drop him again he took it. The last time he got minutes he was pushed out to the wing (unless i’m forgetting a later appearance). And even in that unnatural position he got a great assist and it should have been 2 but someone missed a pretty easy chance. 

 

I think he doesn’t fit what enzo wants in a striker. The fact he will take pot shots and is very forward thinking probably doesn’t sit well with him. As any loss of possession is seen as a negative.

 

I think we all liked what we saw from him and that’s why there’s a lot of head scratching on this, as everyone else has struggled. 

Edited 18 April by Lambert09