The Enzo Thread

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

I just think a project is something you invest in when we were at the Puel stage or just after. Not in a promotion at all costs season. I will still think it if we go up. 

 

In fairness, up until 10/11 games ago the project was absolutely nailing that (promotion). There is nothing to suggest that if we had done anything differently we would be in a better position than we were then, and find ourselves in now. It is still feasible that the way it was managed was the best way of getting promoted. Things have gone to poo now, but get good results in the next 2 games and it will put a very different perspective on things.

 

Then we know if the club are willing to double down further on the project, or wether they have got itchy feet.

 

2 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

I don't think the likes of Rudkin even realised that appointing Enzo will mean abandoning our wing backs. He's that inept. 

 

Not going to 2nd guess Rudkin, and from what i've read it sound like this was very much a Top appointment. But, in hindsight, wingbacks hardly served us well in the last 2 PL seasons, especially the last season. Its likely why a rebuild was seen as a good alternative, and it was a rebuilt many players seemed to have bought into minus a few. 

[Gamble92]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

 

In fairness, up until 10/11 games ago the project was absolutely nailing that (promotion). There is nothing to suggest that if we had done anything differently we would be in a better position than we were then, and find ourselves in now. It is still feasible that the way it was managed was the best way of getting promoted. Things have gone to poo now, but get good results in the next 2 games and it will put a very different perspective on things.

 

Then we know if the club are willing to double down further on the project, or wether they have got itchy feet.

 

 

Not going to 2nd guess Rudkin, and from what i've read it sound like this was very much a Top appointment. But, in hindsight, wingbacks hardly served us well in the last 2 PL seasons, especially the last season. Its likely why a rebuild was seen as a good alternative, and it was a rebuilt many players seemed to have bought into minus a few. 

It won't for me. This squad should absolutely have surpassed 100 points and broke records. I think players that could have been great in this league have been mismanaged ridiculously bad. I don't think when we were getting results in the first part of the season we were doing it because of anything other than bits of individual class. 

 

I still now think there is absolutely nothing to suggest these tactics have been the reason for any success we have had. 

 

When we go behind you want to see examples of the manager finding solutions. When we teams higher up the league likewise you want to see the same. All we have had is basically 20 wins against bottom half championship teams with a squad worth about 4 times everyone else. There's been absolutely nothing to suggest this philosophy has worked. Even if we do go up. It sounds harsh but I've had to sit through it enough times to know I'm right.

[Gamble92]

We're also absolutely screwed if Top is making footballing decisions. He knows nothing about football. 

 

 

[gurru991]

55 minutes ago, LVFox said:

Agree, this is why I don't lay as much blame at Enzos feet. Genuinely feel he has a squad that largely doesn't suit him, and that, again, comes back to DOF and recruitment.

 

If we'd have kept Kristiansen, bought in Winks and Coady still, we would have been perfect for playing wing backs.

Good managers are able to compromise & make changes as they work with the team they have until they get the team they want.

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

It won't for me. This squad should absolutely have surpassed 100 points and broke records. I think players that could have been great in this league have been mismanaged ridiculously bad. I don't think when we were getting results in the first part of the season we were doing it because of anything other than bits of individual class. 

 

I still now think there is absolutely nothing to suggest these tactics have been the reason for any success we have had. 

 

When we go behind you want to see examples of the manager finding solutions. When we teams higher up the league likewise you want to see the same. All we have had is basically 20 wins against bottom half championship teams with a squad worth about 4 times everyone else. There's been absolutely nothing to suggest this philosophy has worked. Even if we do go up. It sounds harsh but I've had to sit through it enough times to know I'm right.

When you set crazy expectations, you are always going to be dissapointed. How can a squad full of relegation bottlers all of a sudden smash records. The squad is still full of underperforming players who don't want to be here. And we know what a bitch the Championship can be.  I've never looked at our squad and thought this lot were going to smash records - at the start of the season i thought playoffs was the realistic target.

 

There should have been one expectation this year - promotion. The expectation is still under threat but still achievable. 

Edited 18 April by Chelmofox

[Gamble92]

23 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

When you set crazy expectations, you are always going to be dissapointed. How can a squad full of relegation bottlers all of a sudden smash records. The squad is still full of underperforming players who don't want to be here. And we know what a bitch the Championship can be.  I've never looked at our squad and thought this lot were going to smash records - at the start of the season i thought playoffs was the realistic target.

 

There should have been one expectation this year - promotion. The expectation is still under threat but still achievable. 

Well I don't think it's crazy. Our team were cruising towards that and I didn't once watch us and think Enzo is doing anything incredible to get that return from them. 

 

Even rotating most the team (a method he's seemingly forgot) was churning out comfortable wins. 

 

The mentality issue last season came from most contracts being up and the likes of Youri not giving a **** to disgusting levels I don't think I've ever seen from professional footballers. It doesn't mean they aren't all miles ahead of most this division in terms of quality. Not to mention we signed Hermansen, Winks, Coady etc who are all above this level. I think it's a disgrace we've ended up in this position. 

Edited 18 April by Gamble92

[Pliskin]

5 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

I agree that Vardy has done his bit, and i think he is likely barely training at all now.  We shouldn't be in the position where we are even considering him as the game changing option. Regarding Bristol - the team gave him plenty of chances - the team wern't on their arses at that point, he f4cked that game up himself.

 

Daka's form pre Leeds was good - its as the pressure mounted he has folded, so this isn't a case of Enzo just playing the donkey. Daka had great stats up until his drop off. Kels i agree with.

 

 

I still think there has been injury and match fitness considerations here. 

Problem with Patson is you just can’t afford to keep giving him chances. We’ve been unlucky with strikers because as you’ve eluded to, they’ve been injured a lot between them bar Pat. But he just doesn’t have the minerals to perform under pressure. His complete lack of technique is staggering I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player who can’t even perform the basics well, I’m not even joking when I say I’ve seen kids with a better all round technical game than Daka. This means you can’t rely on him, he’s amazing at bundling the ball over the line but we don’t play in a way that presents that kind of opportunity, and when his confidence is low, he may as well not be on the pitch because you’ve genuine shot 10 men. 
 

But you’re right in that we can’t rely on Vardy for full games. 
 

Where Enzo has gone wrong in my opinion is that second high 8. N’didi has done okay on that role but he’s not an 8, his only his athletic attributes that have made a positive contribution, now that he is looking a bit leggy he isn’t having the same impact. 
 

Incidentally, I think Enzo should try Wilf in that inverted full back role. Wilf is defensive minded, there’s no better player in the world than him when fit at retrieving the ball in that quadrant of the pitch. As the role isn’t a traditional full back role, he won’t be required to act as a second wide attacker, he can move infield and back into that full back role to defend. I genuinely believe he’s the best candidate for that role, but Enzo will play Riccy because of his ability on the ball in tight spaces. Riccy has been amazing, but I would love to see Wilf deployed there at some point because when it comes to next season (IF) he decides to stay, we will need more physicality in that position, and I just think his combative style will complement Winks. 

[Pliskin]

2 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

I do wonder next season (if promoted) he’ll try copy Man City further with 4 centrebacks on the pitch. Might make fans even more annoyed.

Not a chance, unless we sign the right profile of player. 
 

Man City have done away with the inverted full back role because it’s ineffective against teams who are good in the transition, which is what we used to do to Man City when we battered them in the past. 
 

Now Pep adopts ball playing CB, and one of them will step into the midfield as a CDM. It’s a much better version of the idea as it doesn’t leave you exposed on the flanks like an inverted full back does. Liverpool deploy TAA in this way because he’s the best in the world at it. Riccy has been good, but just look at the goals we’ve been conceding lately, mostly down that left hand side. 

[Gamble92]

19 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Not a chance, unless we sign the right profile of player. 
 

Man City have done away with the inverted full back role because it’s ineffective against teams who are good in the transition, which is what we used to do to Man City when we battered them in the past. 
 

Now Pep adopts ball playing CB, and one of them will step into the midfield as a CDM. It’s a much better version of the idea as it doesn’t leave you exposed on the flanks like an inverted full back does. Liverpool deploy TAA in this way because he’s the best in the world at it. Riccy has been good, but just look at the goals we’ve been conceding lately, mostly down that left hand side. 

You're spot on, but I thought the whole reason behind this amazing philosophy was it giving extra security at the back in the transition because it keeps 3 players defensive rather than 2 wing backs pushing up and leaving the 2 at the back?

 

The more I delve into it the less and less I like it. It hasn't even shown any examples of how it works better when teams press us. We've got a shocking record against the teams that have done that. 

[Chelmofox]

32 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Problem with Patson is you just can’t afford to keep giving him chances. We’ve been unlucky with strikers because as you’ve eluded to, they’ve been injured a lot between them bar Pat. But he just doesn’t have the minerals to perform under pressure. His complete lack of technique is staggering I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player who can’t even perform the basics well, I’m not even joking when I say I’ve seen kids with a better all round technical game than Daka. This means you can’t rely on him, he’s amazing at bundling the ball over the line but we don’t play in a way that presents that kind of opportunity, and when his confidence is low, he may as well not be on the pitch because you’ve genuine shot 10 men. 
 

But you’re right in that we can’t rely on Vardy for full games. 
 

Where Enzo has gone wrong in my opinion is that second high 8. N’didi has done okay on that role but he’s not an 8, his only his athletic attributes that have made a positive contribution, now that he is looking a bit leggy he isn’t having the same impact. 
 

Incidentally, I think Enzo should try Wilf in that inverted full back role. Wilf is defensive minded, there’s no better player in the world than him when fit at retrieving the ball in that quadrant of the pitch. As the role isn’t a traditional full back role, he won’t be required to act as a second wide attacker, he can move infield and back into that full back role to defend. I genuinely believe he’s the best candidate for that role, but Enzo will play Riccy because of his ability on the ball in tight spaces. Riccy has been amazing, but I would love to see Wilf deployed there at some point because when it comes to next season (IF) he decides to stay, we will need more physicality in that position, and I just think his combative style will complement Winks. 

I can understand why Daka had been given chances. The stats were there (but fading away). There had to be faith the form would come back. But i think Daka's body language when subbed off said it all. I think he knows that the faith is running (or run) out.

 

With Ndidi - he doesn't have the football brain to do it. He was dead as a defensive midfielder anyway and had goes at CD which were awful. He is a penalty disaster waiting to happen.  The high 8 worked as he was able to win the ball up the pitch. I think the problem now is that he's in the exit lounge and isn't capable of putting the effort in and the idea of using him for the inverted role makes me feel sick.  Something was smelling with him about that move to Forest which coincided with his increase in form. Problem for us is that our choices are limited here - Ndidi and Preat are on the way out, some suggest Nacho but we have the same problem (cant wait to get out), Akgun very likely won't get signed so whats the incentive to perform. We've looked good playing Riccy in that role but the problem is it means playing Hamza inverted and Riccy gets injured. At least Casadei had a reason to perform (to a degree).  

[ourla]

I don't buy this narrative that we had/have a great squad capable of smashing the League and breaking records.

2 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

This squad should absolutely have surpassed 100 points and broke records.

This is a bonkers assessment. The squad is a good one but not exceptional. By all means question the manager but don't hype the squad.

[LVFox]

2 hours ago, gurru991 said:

Good managers are able to compromise & make changes as they work with the team they have until they get the team they want.

I agree with this, and he should have recognised the squad isn't suited to him and adjusted. 

 

However, there aren't many players in the squad you could class as "technicians"

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

When you set crazy expectations, you are always going to be dissapointed. How can a squad full of relegation bottlers all of a sudden smash records. The squad is still full of underperforming players who don't want to be here. And we know what a bitch the Championship can be.  I've never looked at our squad and thought this lot were going to smash records - at the start of the season i thought playoffs was the realistic target.

 

There should have been one expectation this year - promotion. The expectation is still under threat but still achievable. 

That is a fair argument at the start of the season, even though there's a chunk of this squad that won the FA Cup, played in Europe multiple times etc. They've also shown they can underperform.

 

However, breaking 100 points when we'd got to 78 after 32 games is not a crazy expectation. It is diabolical that we have only put another 10 points on the board from 10 games. We're showing near relegation form from just under a quarter of the season, it's poor and there's no defending it.

[gurru991]

16 minutes ago, LVFox said:

I agree with this, and he should have recognised the squad isn't suited to him and adjusted. 

 

However, there aren't many players in the squad you could class as "technicians"

Agreed. ...Thats when you add a couple & delete a couple in each window until you get where you want to be. I see all these managers who state they want to play out from the back but don't have a keeper who can do that. How many goals do we see each week that involves a keeper passing the ball to an opposition forward. ...Jordan Pickford anyone !!!

Get the players who can do the job first.

Edited 18 April by gurru991

[AKCJ]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

That is a fair argument at the start of the season, even though there's a chunk of this squad that won the FA Cup, played in Europe multiple times etc. They've also shown they can underperform.

 

However, breaking 100 points when we'd got to 78 after 32 games is not a crazy expectation. It is diabolical that we have only put another 10 points on the board from 10 games. We're showing near relegation form from just under a quarter of the season, it's poor and there's no defending it.

I don't think anyone is defending our form.

 

But I also think Enzo is doing a good job and that the off-field stuff must be having some sort of impact given the drop off in form coincides with it all.

 

I don't think we should be directing any attention to wanting Enzo out of that we should be telling him how to manage the club. Let him finish the season and then revaluate. 

 

My personal view is that he should be given the chance to build the club regardless of what happens in the next 2/3 weeks.

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, LVFox said:

If we go up I can see Enzo's agent pimping him out across Europe. Both Sevilla and Fiorentina would really attract him 

He will pimp out regardless. It’s point deductions whatever next season, look how Kompany’s stock has lowered

Edited 18 April by CosbehFox

[CosbehFox]

Some give the hierarchy too much credit in thinking there’s a ‘project’. LCFC’s managerial searches are largely agent led - and it’s about if you can wheeled around in front of Top (and let past the gatekeeper of Rudkin). 
 

The penny might drop at some point but Enzo’s agent is also Vardy’s and also the agent of one of only two players this season to get a contract. The latter of course being a player that the club has shamefully protected after a drink driving charge and had him as captain. 

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

That is a fair argument at the start of the season, even though there's a chunk of this squad that won the FA Cup, played in Europe multiple times etc. They've also shown they can underperform.

 

However, breaking 100 points when we'd got to 78 after 32 games is not a crazy expectation. It is diabolical that we have only put another 10 points on the board from 10 games. We're showing near relegation form from just under a quarter of the season, it's poor and there's no defending it.

No - i get that as well. But i've always been saying that there was a high chance that a poor run of form was coming our way. All of them have had it. Ipswich has a turgid spell themselves where i thought they were out of it.

 

Personally, I wasn't expecting to lose 5 games so close together and for Ipswich and Leeds to nail it over the same period. But also, i then didn't expect them to falter as soon as they caught us as well. Pressure for the top 3 is playing a big part of it, and i expect it to get worse for one of the 3 over the next 3/4 games.

[filbertway]

If we stay down and have to get rid of our genuinely talented players and replace them with championship fodder, I hope he stays.

 

Mainly so I can say I told you so to the people that thinks he's performing miracles with this squad. I'm that Ben Petty

[Gamble92]

3 hours ago, ourla said:

I don't buy this narrative that we had/have a great squad capable of smashing the League and breaking records.

This is a bonkers assessment. The squad is a good one but not exceptional. By all means question the manager but don't hype the squad.

So 78 points after 32 games by not even playing that well was just completely unexpected? We were swapping the whole XI for games and easily winning. I don't know what is bonkers about it?

 

I think Enzo has managed to fool some of you into thinking this squad is so much worse than it is by his sheer mismanagement.

 

In the Premier League it was there for all to see how many issues we had, but some of you fail to grasp how massive the gap is. We went down with a squad operating at Europa League levels of spend. It's unprecedented. Just because theyve been so mismanaged and the manager moans like a little bitch doesn't suddenly make them average championship players. 

[Ric Flair]

58 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

No - i get that as well. But i've always been saying that there was a high chance that a poor run of form was coming our way. All of them have had it. Ipswich has a turgid spell themselves where i thought they were out of it.

 

Personally, I wasn't expecting to lose 5 games so close together and for Ipswich and Leeds to nail it over the same period. But also, i then didn't expect them to falter as soon as they caught us as well. Pressure for the top 3 is playing a big part of it, and i expect it to get worse for one of the 3 over the next 3/4 games.

I also anticipated a poor run, I thought we'd struggle more at the start and grow as the season went on and they learnt Enzo's methods. It's been the opposite and seem to be getting worse, which is a worry as that could be the cause of a multitude of things. Hopefully it's just an unusual poor stretch that's lasted far longer than it ought and we get the job done but I remain extremely skeptical.

[Gamble92]

Don't forget Enzo has been involved in football long enough to know 17 point gaps always disappear. 

 

I don't know how much more shit I can take. 

 

Even this massive lard arse serving me in Farmfoods looked at my Leicester Jacket and said times are rough aren't they? Yes they are Gareth. Just scan my fish fingers please. 

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Some give the hierarchy too much credit in thinking there’s a ‘project’. LCFC’s managerial searches are largely agent led - and it’s about if you can wheeled around in front of Top (and let past the gatekeeper of Rudkin). 
 

The penny might drop at some point but Enzo’s agent is also Vardy’s and also the agent of one of only two players this season to get a contract. The latter of course being a player that the club has shamefully protected after a drink driving charge and had him as captain. 

Bang on. Guess who represents Oscar Garcia who's gone to Leuven and been linked to us in the past? Wasserman.

 

He will likely be the main candidate to replace Enzo, it is not the sign of a well ran club is it. 

[LVFox]

15 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Bang on. Guess who represents Oscar Garcia who's gone to Leuven and been linked to us in the past? Wasserman.

 

He will likely be the main candidate to replace Enzo, it is not the sign of a well ran club is it. 

In fairness Ric, Wasserman are a huge agency. But it's an interesting point.

 

We will spend weeks chasing Potter and then probably end up with Benitez 

[sylofox]

21 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

When you set crazy expectations, you are always going to be dissapointed. How can a squad full of relegation bottlers all of a sudden smash records. The squad is still full of underperforming players who don't want to be here. And we know what a bitch the Championship can be.  I've never looked at our squad and thought this lot were going to smash records - at the start of the season i thought playoffs was the realistic target.

 

There should have been one expectation this year - promotion. The expectation is still under threat but still achievable. 

TBH I don't blame players not wanting to be here. Rodgers treatment of players was awful. Buying them then not playing them or even giving them a fair chance.

 

Then Enzo is not that much better why the fvck did we waste money we didn't have on Coady to warm the bench.

 

Then the tac tics we play is fvcking awful. It's bad enough watching it imagine how they feel having to play that way.

 

Like us they know with an injection of pace at times in a game we would muller teams.

 

Enzo Rodgers same shit different day.

 

Either Top gets in a football manager and not some cvnt teaching us how to watch paint dry or I'm done with the club.