Also In The News - part 3

[st albans fox]

Still uneasy with copter crashes 

 

I’m sure other sm chat forums are full of  memes and puns but thankfully not on here 

[ClaphamFox]

37 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

That just looks like shoddy helicoptering, to me. 

Poor weather conditions, difficult terrain to navigate, an old aircraft and - possibly - poor piloting. A combination of some or all of these is overwhelmingly more likely than a clandestine operation from a foreign power. Less interesting, perhaps, but much more likely.

[foxile5]

Hopefully there's some good come out the Iranian President's demise and the incoming fella de-escalates things?

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

That just looks like shoddy helicoptering, to me. 

"Controlled descent into terrain" is the crash investigation terminology, I believe.

 

If there's one thing that many, many hours spent reading about air crashes on Wikipedia has taught me, not just crashing into bits of high ground in the dark/bad weather is an excitingly modern concept and until about the 1970s occurred with alarming frequency

 

 

 

 

[kenny]

47 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Poor weather conditions, difficult terrain to navigate, an old aircraft and - possibly - poor piloting. A combination of some or all of these is overwhelmingly more likely than a clandestine operation from a foreign power. Less interesting, perhaps, but much more likely.

It seems like an odd risk to take bearing in mind the helicopter is from the 1970's and sanctions have made their air industry safety record very sketchy.

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, kenny said:

It seems like an odd risk to take bearing in mind the helicopter is from the 1970's and sanctions have made their air industry safety record very sketchy.

Speculation that the helicopter is old I think, I would not be surprised if the presidential helicopter was sourced around the sanctions.

[kenny]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Speculation that the helicopter is old I think, I would not be surprised if the presidential helicopter was sourced around the sanctions.

You could be right, Russia, China or South Africa would probably be happy to supply hardware illegally.

 

Its still a very odd risk to take though, especially in a country where rule of terror is the norm. I suspect Putin barely leaves his palace these days for fear of being killed let alone flying helicopters through foggy mountain ranges.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, kenny said:

You could be right, Russia, China or South Africa would probably be happy to supply hardware illegally.

 

Its still a very odd risk to take though, especially in a country where rule of terror is the norm. I suspect Putin barely leaves his palace these days for fear of being killed let alone flying helicopters through foggy mountain ranges.

Yes agreed.  Which makes you wonder whose idea it was.

[urban.spaceman]

Sent from my iPhon

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

To be fair that’s probably the average email he gets from Corbynites every day. 

[Daggers]

Today, I’m back to being an aviation expert - plus, I’m now also an expert in espionage, counterespionage, and covert acts of terrorism. 
 

Feel free to ask me anything. 
 

*especially if it’s about Middle East relationships or the works of Kylie Minogue. 

[ClaphamFox]

33 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

To be fair that’s probably the average email he gets from Corbynites every day. 

With even worse spelling and grammar, presumably.

[Bellend Sebastian]

If you've got time on your hands - and even if you haven't - look up pretty much any aircraft type, especially anything that entered service more than a couple of decades ago, and go straight to "notable accidents and incidents" and you'll wonder how the industry ever "took off" (laughs at own joke). Some models have so many they get a separate page dedicated to it 

 

It does sort of explain why being scared of flying is a thing; it's incredibly safe now but you don't have to go back that far in time and there'd be some horrific crash in Croydon or somewhere every few weeks

[Free Falling Foxes]

2 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

"Controlled descent into terrain" is the crash investigation terminology, I believe.

 

If there's one thing that many, many hours spent reading about air crashes on Wikipedia has taught me, not just crashing into bits of high ground in the dark/bad weather is an excitingly modern concept and until about the 1970s occurred with alarming frequency

 

 

 

 

I believe that is used more commonly in case of pilot suicide/murder, such as the German Wings aircrash a few years ago.

[Daggers]

The sooner Gebeebies is driven into the history books the better.

[MPH]

If i'm being honest, I'm pleased its both sides and they haven't just focused on one of them...

 

 

 

The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas's leader in Gaza for war crimes.

Karim Khan KC said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023.

Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant and Hamas's political leader Ismail Haniyeh, its military chief Mohammed Deif are also wanted for arrest.

The ICC, based in The Hague, has been investigating Israel's actions in the occupied territories for the past three years - and more recently the actions of Hamas as well.

Mr Netanyahu recently called the prospect of senior Israel figures joining the ICC's wanted list "an outrage of historic proportions".

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo

[Bellend Sebastian]

5 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

I believe that is used more commonly in case of pilot suicide/murder, such as the German Wings aircrash a few years ago.

No, it doesn't imply that it was deliberate - it's when an aircraft is not out of control, and hits the ground because those flying it weren't aware of the danger until it was too late to do anything about it, or at all. 

 

I'm too lazy to look to see if there's any data on this but before the days of GPS and other navigation aids it was a really common cause of accidents as it was difficult to pinpoint your location if visibility was less than perfect

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, MPH said:

If i'm being honest, I'm pleased its both sides and they haven't just focused on one of them...

 

 

 

The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas's leader in Gaza for war crimes.

Karim Khan KC said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023.

Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant and Hamas's political leader Ismail Haniyeh, its military chief Mohammed Deif are also wanted for arrest.

The ICC, based in The Hague, has been investigating Israel's actions in the occupied territories for the past three years - and more recently the actions of Hamas as well.

Mr Netanyahu recently called the prospect of senior Israel figures joining the ICC's wanted list "an outrage of historic proportions".

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo

Surely this will only make extension of the conflict more likely ?

 

you would think that this would be better done after the war has ended 

[bovril]

6 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

No, it doesn't imply that it was deliberate - it's when an aircraft is not out of control, and hits the ground because those flying it weren't aware of the danger until it was too late to do anything about it, or at all. 

 

I'm too lazy to look to see if there's any data on this but before the days of GPS and other navigation aids it was a really common cause of accidents as it was difficult to pinpoint your location if visibility was less than perfect

Like the New Zealand one when there was a total white out and they were unaware they were flying into a snowy mountain 

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Surely this will only make extension of the conflict more likely ?

 

you would think that this would be better done after the war has ended 

 

I understand your concerns and agree with them.

 

'Pleased' may have been the wrong choice of words but seemed a bit more succinct than " they are both as bad as each other" .

[MPH]

8 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

No, it doesn't imply that it was deliberate - it's when an aircraft is not out of control, and hits the ground because those flying it weren't aware of the danger until it was too late to do anything about it, or at all. 

 

I'm too lazy to look to see if there's any data on this but before the days of GPS and other navigation aids it was a really common cause of accidents as it was difficult to pinpoint your location if visibility was less than perfect

 

 

 

Just a side point... if it was indeed an accident,  its possible that they could have had their GPS system switched off in the helicopter because potentially this would have made them trackable...

 

https://www.tracplus.com/tracplus-blog/how-to-track-helicopters-using-a-gps-helicopter-tracker

[Bellend Sebastian]

16 minutes ago, bovril said:

Like the New Zealand one when there was a total white out and they were unaware they were flying into a snowy mountain 

They crashed into Mount Erebus didn't they? I had to look it up to remind myself of why it happened, and it's fairly incredible - the flight plan was altered without the air crew being told, so when the pilot descended to allow the passengers a better look at the stunning Antarctic vistas, they flew straight into a ruddy great volcano that as far as they were concerned, wasn't meant to be there.

 

Awful

[Bellend Sebastian]

30 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

 

Just a side point... if it was indeed an accident,  its possible that they could have had their GPS system switched off in the helicopter because potentially this would have made them trackable...

 

https://www.tracplus.com/tracplus-blog/how-to-track-helicopters-using-a-gps-helicopter-tracker

I dunno! I know GPS tells you where YOU are, but I've no idea if it tells anybody else of your location

[Rusko187]

Whilst it's probably likely poor weather is the cause of the accident, I am sceptical of things like this.

Slovakian Prime Minister assassination attempt and they no longer believe the gun-man was acting alone. Couple that with Todays crash and you have 2 of Putins supporters out of the way.

 

Just all seems a little coincidental.

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

Whilst it's probably likely poor weather is the cause of the accident, I am sceptical of things like this.

Slovakian Prime Minister assassination attempt and they no longer believe the gun-man was acting alone. Couple that with Todays crash and you have 2 of Putins supporters out of the way.

 

Just all seems a little coincidental.

 

 

I do agree - timing isnt good.. makes me suspicious too... im assuming the helicopter had a black box so they'll study that.

 

 

I know people are saying it was the weather and that's what the Iranians are saying too... but he was supposedly in a convoy of 3 helicopters... yet the other two didn't crash

 

 

Just a few too many unanswered questions , for me..