VAR vs Reffing.

[leicsmac]

Think there are less overall errors even with the current level of VAR (which does need drastic improvement) than with standard refs and seeing as football fans are going to be football fans and get pissed off no matter what system is in place and therefore things are equal there, I'd prefer adaptation and improvement of the tech than abandoning it entirely.

Edited 7 November 2023 by leicsmac

[st albans fox]

11 hours ago, foxinsox said:

Watching the chaos of Spurs vs Chelsea tonight, I am not missing VAR at all!

 

5 disallowed goals, 2 red cards, all with slow VAR reviews.

 

Totally mad game.

all that stopping to check for one overturn correction 
 

10 hours ago, tom27111 said:

I'd take VAR 100%

 

BUT...VAR needs perfecting. It ain't even that hard.

 

Forget automated offside, you're complicating things, revert back to the daylight rule.

 

If a single part of the attackers body is level with a defender, he's on.

 

 

imagine the scenario where you are at least two yards ahead of the defender but your outstretched back foot just reaches the outstretched front foot of the defender = onside 

not for me 

 

 

10 hours ago, F T Fagos said:

Absolute carnage. VAR been good and not so good in this game. 21 minutes added on in total as well.

And way lower playing time than usual

[Lineker's Lugs]

12 hours ago, LinekersLugs said:

I don’t want to go back up 

 

I love the lack of VAR 

 

VAR made me fall out of love with the premier league 

 

i genuinely don’t want to go back to that mess 

 

look at the game tonight 

 

it’s VAR-Ball With a little bit of football thrown in 

I was going to post something similar but my virtual namesake beat me to it!

 

I dislike the Premier League for many reasons beyond VAR, but it's certainly one of the main issues.  I used to watch any football going, but in recent years the only PL games I've watched are those involving Leicester.  I haven't watched any PL this season and if we do go back up I'll have a genuine dilemma.

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, Sly said:

If you need physio treatment - 3 minutes off the pitch. 

...what about the reckless oaf that has caused the injury!!!

How much time does he get, does he continue to play while your team is down to 10 men?

[Sly]

Just now, sacreblueits442 said:

...what about the reckless oaf that has caused the injury!!!

How much time does he get, does he continue to play while your team is down to 10 men?

I was more aiming at people that rolled around a lot to feign injury.

 

If it’s that bad, red card them.

 

If the laws were tougher, we’d have less knobishness and gamesmanship during games.

 

Can you imagine the first time 3 players get binned for getting in the referees face. 

[Vacamion]

 

Pre-VAR, it got so difficult for refs to officiate a game because players were throwing themselves to the ground without contact, feigning injury, screaming in pain and surrounding and bullying refs when they don't get their way.  Even corners and throw ins getting appealed and arms thrown up when it went the other way.

 

And all that still goes on. 

 

What little authority the refs had is diminished by them avoiding decisions or making bad ones in the knowledge that VAR is there.

 

Sort out that kind of cheating with all refs on a microphone during the game and post-game video analysis and bans for cheating and ref abuse, if needs be, and a lot of the controversy goes away.

 

You can then use VAR for 20 second maximum further review to assist the ref for clear errors on offside, handball, out of play, etc.

 

Subjective stuff like whether a tackle is no foul, a foul, a yellow or a red, I would leave to the on-field ref during the game.

 

[sacreblueits442]

6 minutes ago, Sly said:

 

Can you imagine the first time 3 players get binned for getting in the referees face. 

...isn't that what Clough called for!!!

  He said, If they (his own players) were busy talking back and haranguing the referee, then they are not doing their job, and asked the referee to book them.

[grobyfox1990]

2 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Everyone saying refs on the spot - but this is why VAR came in in the first place.

 

People steadfastly refusing to accept referees are human and make mistakes - sometimes grave mistakes. Technology is still reliant on humans who can, guess what, make mistakes.

 

Get rid of VAR and just accept referees are as human as the players. Not everything is going to be right, and many decisions on a football pitch are quite subjective.

Exactly. Errors are always going to be made, there's so much money in football errors are blown out of proportion. Do cricket fans go mental when it's umpires call for LBW? I am not sure.

There are undoubtedly less mistakes with VAR in place, imagine if Romero had stayed on the pitch and Chelsea didn't get a penalty yesterday. But people want perfection which will never happen so will always moan and come up with wild 'corruption' conspiracies. 

Thought Postecoglu came across really well in his interview yesterday.

[Number 6]

There are things I thought VAR would tidy up but it hasn't, such as diving. Seems to be more that you can fall over as soon as there is contact and VAR will justify a decision (club badge dependent).

 

Also, if being correct is the absolute then I don't know why we draw the line where we currently do. Take a goal of little significance, Liverpool's third against us at home last season. Was a free kick 20 yards out, not checked because not a pen, but the tackle from Evans was not a foul. Free kick is touched back and smashed in to the top corner - so there was basically nothing we could do about it from the point it was given. And yet VAR won't intervene there because it's not a penalty.

 

So there is subjectivity anyway, and there is a growing amount of evidence that reviewing a screen every time still doesn't mean the final decision will be correct. So what's the point? People just feel more aggrieved about 'wrong' decisions because the ref doesn't have anything mitigating the final decision. 

 

And look at yesterday too. There's a reasonable argument to say VAR got all of the decisions correct (though I thought Udogie should have gone for the two-footer) - that was it working, but what it created was a nonsense. 

 

Things like mistaken identity or automated offsides as per the world cup should probably stay, the rest needs binning.

[Crinklyfox]

We could learn from cricket.  Have VAR as a technology that is there but not used unless requested by a manager or the ref.  Give managers two VAR appeals per game when they can ask for a decision to be reviewed and that's it.  The ref can request a VAR review when they wish.

 

Should speed up the game, cut down the number of reviews and improve decision accuracy.

[sacreblueits442]

19 minutes ago, Crinklyfox said:

We could learn from cricket.  Have VAR as a technology that is there but not used unless requested by a manager or the ref.  Give managers two VAR appeals per game when they can ask for a decision to be reviewed and that's it.  The ref can request a VAR review when they wish.

 

Should speed up the game, cut down the number of reviews and improve decision accuracy.

...much the same as Gridiron!!!

The Head Coach has two challenges for almost the whole game and may have an additional one if his previous two have been successful.

[Foxin_Mad]

I dont mind refs getting in wrong. What is an issue is when they think they are some kind of celebrity and sort of bask in their incompetence.

 

The main issues are lack of consistency for the same decisions week in week out

 

If referees had some accountability with the media etc, it may paint them in a better light. I think at the elite levels they seem to be untouchable. Their bad decsions can make or break a season at certain points so its understandable people get riled at someone who can go and hide afterwards.

[STUHILL]

90% in favour of ditching VAR so far. I am sure that this is a good reflection of all fans across the country too. 

Why should Football organisations persist with this technology if it is so universally hated? Give the majority of fans what they want for a change.

[Fox seen in Norwich]

Don’t use it for every incident.
 

I’ve always been of the opinion each team gets two appeals per half.

Only captains are only allowed to make an appeal signal to the ref.. if the decision is overturned the captains team retain the appeal used up.

 

My view is players will only ask the captain to appeal if they genuinely believe a mistake is made and so more emphasis will be placed for on field decisions.  

[Mark]

The PL and our refs have made it a bigger mess than it should be, it’s much less noticeable in most of the European games this season and it worked well during the World Cup from what I remember.

[trooky]

11 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

Pre-VAR, it got so difficult for refs to officiate a game because players were throwing themselves to the ground without contact, feigning injury, screaming in pain and surrounding and bullying refs when they don't get their way.  Even corners and throw ins getting appealed and arms thrown up when it went the other way.

 

And all that still goes on. 

 

What little authority the refs had is diminished by them avoiding decisions or making bad ones in the knowledge that VAR is there.

 

Sort out that kind of cheating with all refs on a microphone during the game and post-game video analysis and bans for cheating and ref abuse, if needs be, and a lot of the controversy goes away.

 

You can then use VAR for 20 second maximum further review to assist the ref for clear errors on offside, handball, out of play, etc.

 

Subjective stuff like whether a tackle is no foul, a foul, a yellow or a red, I would leave to the on-field ref during the game.

 

I thought VAR was going to stop the cheating but somehow they've created a system to endorse the cheats.

 

Wolves have had 2 really soft penalties awarded against them in the last 2 games using VAR for blatant dives.

 

Virtually every penalty in the PL involves some kind of dive these days. I hate it.

[LinekersLugs]

12 hours ago, Lineker's Lugs said:

I was going to post something similar but my virtual namesake beat me to it!

 

I dislike the Premier League for many reasons beyond VAR, but it's certainly one of the main issues.  I used to watch any football going, but in recent years the only PL games I've watched are those involving Leicester.  I haven't watched any PL this season and if we do go back up I'll have a genuine dilemma.

 

 

Bloody hell buddy I never spotted you before 😂😂😂

 

wow great minds think a like 

[The Doctor]

I'm a proponent for VAR, always have been. Currently in England it does not work, there's no arguing that, but you look why and 90% of the time it's because it's still a current referee behind the monitor and current refereeing standards are non existent, covering each others backs at a peer to peer level (Mike Deans comments about not referring a red card incident to Anthony Taylor to avoid him getting more grief) to the complete lack of accountability at any level for referees (Taylor getting just sent to one game in the championship and then getting a big 6 match just after a shocking performance).

 

VAR enhances good refs and makes everything worse with bad refs, and ultimately I'd rather have it and overhaul refereeing in this country than just stick with the useless shit we know

[HybridFox]

Both sh*** but VAR ensures the sh*** stays

[worth_the_wait]

I'm slightly re-assured by the fact that over 90% now think VAR is utter s h i t e.

 

When we had a poll in the early days, I'm sure there was a near even split between those 'against' and those 'for'.

 

[Foxmeister]

The way referees are treated by fans, media and those directly involved in the game is a disgrace and filters down to grass roots where there are some appalling stories. Whatever the future, or lack of, for VAR, we all need to take a good look in the mirror because with every bit of abuse aimed at officials the talent pool decreases. Everybody makes mistakes and we have to accept them and move on.

 

My vote was to go with on field decisions for what it's worth.

[trabuch]

On 07/11/2023 at 09:50, Vacamion said:

 

Pre-VAR, it got so difficult for refs to officiate a game because players were throwing themselves to the ground without contact, feigning injury, screaming in pain and surrounding and bullying refs when they don't get their way.  Even corners and throw ins getting appealed and arms thrown up when it went the other way.

 

And all that still goes on. 

 

What little authority the refs had is diminished by them avoiding decisions or making bad ones in the knowledge that VAR is there.

 

Sort out that kind of cheating with all refs on a microphone during the game and post-game video analysis and bans for cheating and ref abuse, if needs be, and a lot of the controversy goes away.

 

You can then use VAR for 20 second maximum further review to assist the ref for clear errors on offside, handball, out of play, etc.

 

Subjective stuff like whether a tackle is no foul, a foul, a yellow or a red, I would leave to the on-field ref during the game.

 

Retrospective punishment for simulation might help that. And can happen long after the match has finished. I know it doesn't help the team that was cheated against, but it might stop it happening in the longer run.

Edited 8 November 2023 by trabuch

[JayTheFox]

I have loved not having VAR in the championship this season to be able to simply look at the linesman after scoring a goal to determine if it counts or not is brilliant. 
 

I don’t believe we can go backwards though and I’m sure as time goes on better technology and process will ensure it’s used better and faster. 
 

Let’s not forget without VAR we may not be sitting in 2023 with an FA cup to our name as it’s likely we go onto lose that final if the chilwell offside wasn’t given.

[Foxmeister]

On 07/11/2023 at 09:42, Sly said:

I was more aiming at people that rolled around a lot to feign injury.

 

If it’s that bad, red card them.

 

If the laws were tougher, we’d have less knobishness and gamesmanship during games.

 

Can you imagine the first time 3 players get binned for getting in the referees face. 

I think the refs have got enough on without massively subjective calls like this.

[ozleicester]

Errors are unavoidable and are part of the game, Managers make them, players make them and Refs make them. AND VAR MAKES THEM

The continual sobbing and woe is me by (especially the big rich) clubs is the reason we have this ludicrous situation where you have to sit and wait for an age to still not be sure of a decision.

Grow up, learen to accept that even though you are in the right, there are going to be times you lose.