Steve Cooper - New Manager

[Daggers]

3 hours ago, v6rat said:

Steve Cooper's Premier League record
Games	62
Won	13
Drawn	19
Lost	30

 

 

Says all you need to know, very poor record, 13 wins in 62 attempts as a Premier League manager, which he clearly isn't based on these stats.

Clearly just needs more time.

[filbertway]

16 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

MON got off to a dreadful start. No wins in his first 9 games. Took over with us in 3rd and we soon plummeted down the table. The team could barely score a goal and didn't even look like scoring.

 

 

 

Can see that the aim initially was to stop the team bleeding goals. 17 goals conceded in 9 league games. Then 7 conceded in 7.

 

 

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

You could see what he was trying to do though, turning a slow and defensive side under O’Neil into a higher tempo and high energy side. 
 

Also if you have a look at who they played in the first 9 league games it really was quite ridiculous. Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and both Brentford and Brighton away. 

 

I always find it weird how people will defend other fans when those fans wouldn't have been happy. I even spoke to two Bournemouth fans pre match Saturday and they were complaining how bad they are.

 

0 wins in 9 is pathetic, regardless of a change of manager, yet Bournemouth finished 12th last season.

 

Looking at those 9 games they played West Ham (previous season 14th), Liverpool (5th), Spurs (8th), Brentford (9th), Chelsea (12th), Brighton (6th), Arsenal (2nd), Everton (17th) and Wolves (13th).

It's a mixed bag. There's games there they should have won (West Ham and Wolves were both home games). Instead they were left with 3 points after 9.

 

This season we've started with Spurs (previous season 5th), Fulham (13th), Villa (4th), Palace (10th), Everton (15th), Arsenal (2nd) and Bournemouth (11th).

 

It's also a mixed bag. Our first three games, potentially even four considering how Palace finished last season, were tough. People on here were predicting us to be battered by Spurs on the opening day and battered by Villa two weeks later. Fulham have only lost twice, both away in Manchester.

 

Cooper was never going to be the same as Maresca so why not say he's changing things just like Bournemouth did last season, as apparently that's justification for an horrific start.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

23 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Can see that the aim initially was to stop the team bleeding goals. 17 goals conceded in 9 league games. Then 7 conceded in 7.

 

 

The point still stands. MON got off to an horrific start. The results were poor. The football was dire. The fans weren't having him (Sheff U at home). The players weren't having him (he had a huge bust-up with Garry Parker after the Ipswich home game). 

 

But eventually he turned it around. Now maybe Cooper won't turn it around. But MON showed that it is possible.

 

Cooper wouldn't have been my choice as manager. Yes, performances have been poor and his tactics and game management are a concern. But I think he deserves more than 7 league games before being written off, especially considering we aren't even in the relegation zone.

 

 

Edited 11 October 2024 by SouthStandUpperTier

[inckley fox]

3 hours ago, v6rat said:

Steve Cooper's Premier League record
Games	62
Won	13
Drawn	19
Lost	30

 

 

Says all you need to know, very poor record, 13 wins in 62 attempts as a Premier League manager, which he clearly isn't based on these stats.

It's out of context though. He has managed clubs that were aiming to stay up, and that points per gane average has kept sides up for many years. The stats reflect a manager meeting expectations at PL level. Had he been at an established PL club, they would show someone falling short in the first tier, but he wasn't.

 

To illustrate the point, look at Taylor and Pearson's identical points-per-game records at PL level. Both better than Cooper's, by the way. For one of those managers, that represented disaster. It got the other one on the three-man shortlist for PL manager of the season in his only full PL campaign. Why? Because one club had finished in the top half for four years running before one of those chaps arrived, while the other had just come up after a decade in the wilderness under the other. But on paper the records look the same.

 

If you looked without such context at the PL records of the likes of Gross, Ramos or Lampard, who clearly fell well short of their relative expectations, you'd think they were leagues above successful managers of lower end clubs. All these stats tell you is that he's not had a chance at an established club yet.

 

You could argue that Cooper should have improved Forest more in his second PL season, but when you consider the club level mismanagement and the fact that he'd unexpectedly taken them up after a spectacular turnaround (yes, I know it's a lower level, but it doesn't stop people calling for Corberan, whose record isn't as good as Cooper's in the second tier) those stats seem quite respectable.

 

It doesn't mean he's the right man for the job. But that judgement should be made without resorting to an argument that his past record proves him to be unsuitable for the level.

[Nick]

10 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

The point still stands. MON got off to an horrific start. The results were poor. The football was dire. The fans weren't having him (Sheff U at home). The players weren't having him (he had a huge bust-up with Gary Parker after the Ipswich home game). 

 

But eventually he turned it around. Now maybe Cooper won't turn it around. But MON showed that it is possible.

 

Cooper wouldn't have been my choice as manager. Yes, performances have been poor and his tactics and game management are a concern. But I think he deserves more than 7 league games before being written off, especially considering we aren't even in the relegation zone.

 

This may sound a bit ridiculous but I wrote him off following the pre-season team selections.

 

He's won 13 out of 60 odd Premier League games and he might fluke another win against Southampton but he's not the right fit in my opinion.

 

Nice guy but when the players don't believe in what they are doing (unlike with Maresca) it never works long-term and I don't believe they do.

 

He's already done here in my opinion it's just a waiting game for the board to see it and act which I doubt will be anytime soon but hey ho.

 

And I couldn't care less that he managed Forest.

 

Love for him to prove me wrong.

Edited 11 October 2024 by Nick

[Muzzy_no7]

22 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

 

I always find it weird how people will defend other fans when those fans wouldn't have been happy. I even spoke to two Bournemouth fans pre match Saturday and they were complaining how bad they are.

 

0 wins in 9 is pathetic, regardless of a change of manager, yet Bournemouth finished 12th last season.

 

Looking at those 9 games they played West Ham (previous season 14th), Liverpool (5th), Spurs (8th), Brentford (9th), Chelsea (12th), Brighton (6th), Arsenal (2nd), Everton (17th) and Wolves (13th).

It's a mixed bag. There's games there they should have won (West Ham and Wolves were both home games). Instead they were left with 3 points after 9.

 

This season we've started with Spurs (previous season 5th), Fulham (13th), Villa (4th), Palace (10th), Everton (15th), Arsenal (2nd) and Bournemouth (11th).

 

It's also a mixed bag. Our first three games, potentially even four considering how Palace finished last season, were tough. People on here were predicting us to be battered by Spurs on the opening day and battered by Villa two weeks later. Fulham have only lost twice, both away in Manchester.

 

Cooper was never going to be the same as Maresca so why not say he's changing things just like Bournemouth did last season, as apparently that's justification for an horrific start.

Simple response to this is to look at Coopers wider PL record compared to Andoni’s. 

[inckley fox]

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

This may sound a bit ridiculous but I wrote him off following the pre-season team selections.

 

He's won 13 out of 60 odd Premier League games and he might fluke another win against Southampton but he's not the right fit in my opinion.

 

Nice guy but when the players don't believe in what they are doing (unlike with Maresca) it never works long-term and I don't believe they do.

 

He's already done here in my opinion it's just a waiting game for the board to see it and act which I doubt will be anytime soon but hey ho.

 

And I couldn't care less that he managed Forest.

 

Love for him to prove me wrong.

You may well have a point when you say that it's simply not going to work out, but we've had managers walk into a dressing room which doesn't want them there, but who go on to achieve long-term success.

 

The same names keep cropping up, but once again O'Neill and Pearson are valid comparisons. O'Neill spoke of negativity from some quarters, including Steve Corica, in his early days. Pearson got rid of most of the players, had a headline-grabbing bust-up with his captain, and denounced pretty much everyone as unfit for purpose. There are others too - Wallace falling out with some of the remaining Bloomfield-era players is another example.

 

So yes, you'll probably turn out to be right, but all is far from lost as things stand. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

47 minutes ago, Nick said:

the players don't believe in what they are doing (unlike with Maresca)

It's easy to believe when you're winning (in a league where you are so much better than 95% of the other teams in it).

 

Maybe Vardy calling a players-only meeting when we wobbled during the run-in was an indication that the players were losing that belief.

 

Edited 11 October 2024 by SouthStandUpperTier

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Maybe Vardy calling a players-only meeting when we wobbled during the run-in was an indication that the players were losing that belief.

 

I don't think that's likely to be honest. 

 

The players just needed to be galvanised a bit, we were having a mini wobble and confidence and form had taken a bit of a hit. Individual mistakes were creeping in. 

 

Yeah, a more experienced manager might not have needed the help getting the squad refocused and composed but I do think that's all it was and I don't actually have ant issue with that coming from within the playing staff personally. 

 

[FoxesTalker]

I’m all for supporting any manager who is in charge of the club, and the same goes for Cooper. That being said, will draw the line at calling him Stevie Cooper as a general rule. Just doesn’t seem right.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

6 hours ago, FoxesTalker said:

I’m all for supporting any manager who is in charge of the club, and the same goes for Cooper. That being said, will draw the line at calling him Stevie Cooper as a general rule. Just doesn’t seem right.

 

[FoxesTalker]

During that period of time when Maresca was announced as manager last summer, there was talk about the fact we hadn't appointed someone with a ceiling in terms of what can be achieved, whereas this isn't really the case for managers in Cooper's bracket. This hasn't helped with the enthusiasm of his appointment I would say, and as has been mentioned by others on here, it's also an easy argument to make about the Forest link and while that's partly true, criticism has been more about his actual qualities as a manager. In reality though, there was going to be a limited pool of managers to attract this summer, and Cooper has shown he has been up for the challenge even in the face of a points deduction. So do hope he makes a success of it here.

[CosbehFox]

On 11/10/2024 at 13:06, Finnegan said:

Yeah, a more experienced manager might not have needed the help getting the squad refocused and composed but I do think that's all it was and I don't actually have ant issue with that coming from within the playing staff personally. 

 

Finners spot on - Maresca's inexperience got away with him for a bit. 

[fox_favourite]

On 11/10/2024 at 13:06, Finnegan said:

 

I don't think that's likely to be honest. 

 

The players just needed to be galvanised a bit, we were having a mini wobble and confidence and form had taken a bit of a hit. Individual mistakes were creeping in. 

 

Yeah, a more experienced manager might not have needed the help getting the squad refocused and composed but I do think that's all it was and I don't actually have ant issue with that coming from within the playing staff personally. 

 

This is what came across in interviews as well with players, with Vards. They clearly liked Maresca and playing for him, look how many times they mentioned him, said how much they were enjoying it. Cooper? Every interview I've heard from players rarely mention him. It's seems to be "the lads" rather than the gaffer. That speaks volumes to me. 

[fox_favourite]

1 hour ago, FoxesTalker said:

During that period of time when Maresca was announced as manager last summer, there was talk about the fact we hadn't appointed someone with a ceiling in terms of what can be achieved, whereas this isn't really the case for managers in Cooper's bracket. This hasn't helped with the enthusiasm of his appointment I would say, and as has been mentioned by others on here, it's also an easy argument to make about the Forest link and while that's partly true, criticism has been more about his actual qualities as a manager. In reality though, there was going to be a limited pool of managers to attract this summer, and Cooper has shown he has been up for the challenge even in the face of a points deduction. So do hope he makes a success of it here.

I would love him to be a success. Him being a success means our club is successful, but he's just not a good manager. Basic subs is one of a long line that shows he's not proactive enough. He will do things when he's forced. Maresca didn't. He saw flaws and changed things. Sometimes it didn't work, but he wanted to take the initiative. Cooper doesn't, and that's is based on what I've seen, nott hat he's a forest ex manager or anything else. This is what I've seen in every game. 

[slymunn]

4 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

This is what came across in interviews as well with players, with Vards. They clearly liked Maresca and playing for him, look how many times they mentioned him, said how much they were enjoying it. Cooper? Every interview I've heard from players rarely mention him. It's seems to be "the lads" rather than the gaffer. That speaks volumes to me. 

This was yesterday.

[fox_favourite]

7 minutes ago, slymunn said:

This was yesterday.

And do you believe him?

 

That was the first time I've seen someone say this, but it's just a rehash of what cooper said when he arrived...aka media speak. Not what he actually feels, I think. 

 

Are we playing like last season with tweaks? Southampton 2nd half is the first time in seeing it 

 

Listen to post match interviews...how often is he mentioned? 

Edited 25 October 2024 by fox_favourite

[slymunn]

3 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

And do you believe him?

 

That was the first time I've seen someone say this, but it's just a rehash of what cooper said when he arrived...aka media speak. Not what he actually feels, I think. 

 

Are we playing like last season with tweaks? Southampton 2nd half is the first time in seeing it 

 

Listen to post match interviews...how often is he mentioned? 

I don't listen to the interviews if I'm honest. I don't live local so don't get them on the new etc, even on the drive/train home after matches I'll not listen to them.

 

Do you believe many players or managers with what they say? I'd wouldn't if I'm honest, so don't let it get to you  

[Iran]

"We Can Do More" ✍️ | Steve Cooper Speaks After United Defeat

Edited 10 November 2024 by Iran

[foxes_rule1978]

I know it is a long shot, and very risky but would maybe going for Cambiasso a bad shout? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

We need to be getting Moyes in over the coming international break.

 

I think we have enough quality in the squad that he’d get some sort of tune out of them until the window - at least get us looking more clued up defensively and picking up points here and there - and doing it now gives a bit of time to discuss January targets.

 

I’d be amazed if we’re not close to pulling the trigger on Cooper - it’s clear the general vibe around the club is just not right.

 

 

 

[justfoxes]

Get his fuching time wasting fuching charlatan out of our club now before he gives the EFL what they Fuching desire us fuching relegated so they can slap us with a few fuching dodgy sanctions !!

[justfoxes]

On 25/10/2024 at 10:25, slymunn said:

This was yesterday.

That sounds like a bit of BULL 💩Vards are you taking the Pi55???

[sylofox]

Can the title be changed to

 

 

STEVE COOPER NOT FOOTBALL RELATED.