Steve Cooper: The Tactics Thread

[Corky]

1 hour ago, FoxinNotts said:

Does anyone recall whether or not Cooper managed back-to-back prem wins with Forest?

Once. 1-0 at Southampton and 2-0 v us in January last year.

 

He only won 2 away games there (1 in each season).

[Shane]

@StriderHiryu

 

Could we play the same team against Forest but with a back 3 of Faes, Vestergaard & Okoli?

 

IIRC Faes played the LCB role a few times last year and either him or Okoli could play that position. We really missed Vestergaard‘s passing yesterday.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Shane said:

@StriderHiryu

 

Could we play the same team against Forest but with a back 3 of Faes, Vestergaard & Okoli?

 

IIRC Faes played the LCB role a few times last year and either him or Okoli could play that position. We really missed Vestergaard‘s passing yesterday.

I will cover this in the post match analysis. I do agree with the statement on passing, but there were a few times when Okoli cleaned up on a counter attack where Vestergaard simply would not have had the pace to catch up to Elanga or Hudson-Odoi. And whilst this game was defined by indivdual mistakes, this was a tactical battle of possession football versus a counter attacking team with pace. And in games like that, you need players to help you on those counter transitions.

[Tom12345]

I can’t believe I am saying this after a loss and after all the comments I made about Cooper’s selection and tactics. But Cooper actually listened to the fans and started Ricardo. He was willing to try something new. He played Ndidi further up instead of one of the pivot positions which goes a long way towards not repeating the mistakes Rodgers made for so long and against what many fans cannot see (I would not even start Ndidi and would start Bilal or McAteer instead but that is another point). He answered our calls. But the main point is that he is showing us that he understands and he is willing to experiment - something that Rodgers never showed. That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

 

 

[SafewayFox]

11 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

I can’t believe I am saying this after a loss and after all the comments I made about Cooper’s selection and tactics. But Cooper actually listened to the fans and started Ricardo. He was willing to try something new. He played Ndidi further up instead of one of the pivot positions which goes a long way towards not repeating the mistakes Rodgers made for so long and against what many fans cannot see (I would not even start Ndidi and would start Bilal or McAteer instead but that is another point). He answered our calls. But the main point is that he is showing us that he understands and he is willing to experiment - something that Rodgers never showed. That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

 

 

I feel bad being that guy but I think it’s the total opposite and merely backs up the fact that Cooper has no tactical plan.

 

Imagine after “watching all of last seasons games” and not practicing this formation in pre-season rather than 9 games into the PL season.

[inckley fox]

50 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

I can’t believe I am saying this after a loss and after all the comments I made about Cooper’s selection and tactics. But Cooper actually listened to the fans and started Ricardo. He was willing to try something new. He played Ndidi further up instead of one of the pivot positions which goes a long way towards not repeating the mistakes Rodgers made for so long and against what many fans cannot see (I would not even start Ndidi and would start Bilal or McAteer instead but that is another point). He answered our calls. But the main point is that he is showing us that he understands and he is willing to experiment - something that Rodgers never showed. That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

 

 

Your patience is certainly admirable! I must admit, I flipped a bit last night (apologies to anyone I might have been spiky with) because I felt a big part of the problem was that he did listen to the fans. Ricardo was well off the pace, Justin is no better at LB, Fatawu was woeful and the possession football ended up playing into the hands of a capable counter-attacking team. But yes, the fans got what they were asking for!

 

So if anything I'd have to disagree with you and say that last night was a good lesson as to why you shouldn't cave in to pressure from the fans.

 

That said, whatever system we played, the errors from Facundo, Justin and Faes would have cost us dearly.

[Kierzz]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I will cover this in the post match analysis. I do agree with the statement on passing, but there were a few times when Okoli cleaned up on a counter attack where Vestergaard simply would not have had the pace to catch up to Elanga or Hudson-Odoi. And whilst this game was defined by indivdual mistakes, this was a tactical battle of possession football versus a counter attacking team with pace. And in games like that, you need players to help you on those counter transitions.

True. It's strange that Cooper chose to play this system for the first time this season against a strong counter attacking team which could be considered it's Kryptonite.

 

Albeit it did work very well in the first half until Forest tweaked a few things

[StriderHiryu]

47 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

True. It's strange that Cooper chose to play this system for the first time this season against a strong counter attacking team which could be considered it's Kryptonite.

 

Albeit it did work very well in the first half until Forest tweaked a few things

The TL:DR of my analysis is that I think it did work, but was undone by some catastrophic defensive mistakes.

 

To be fair to Nuno, he did make some adjustments to try to stop Leicester in the second half, but overall it was effective. At the same time, we must berudgingly give Forest some respect. Liverpool couldn't score against them, and whilst we got one goal, we never looked like scoring another. At the moment you'd have to say they are the best counter attacking team in the league.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Close the thread there is no tactical plan 😂

[davieG]

5 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

I can’t believe I am saying this after a loss and after all the comments I made about Cooper’s selection and tactics. But Cooper actually listened to the fans and started Ricardo. He was willing to try something new. He played Ndidi further up instead of one of the pivot positions which goes a long way towards not repeating the mistakes Rodgers made for so long and against what many fans cannot see (I would not even start Ndidi and would start Bilal or McAteer instead but that is another point). He answered our calls. But the main point is that he is showing us that he understands and he is willing to experiment - something that Rodgers never showed. That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

 

 

Ricardo only started because Kristiansen was injured, the only other FB was Thomas.

[Muzzy_no7]

Pick 11 players and send them out.

 

Nothing else to it.

 

Worst football I’ve seen at the KP since Levein 

[Pliskin]

Someone photo shop spaghettis head into this. 

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

Someone photo shop spaghettis head into this. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

7 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

… That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

 

 

No 

Edited 26 October 2024 by Wasyls Pec Deck

[Pliskin]

15 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Absolute genius.

[Foxaholic ME]

On 26/10/2024 at 12:57, Tom12345 said:

I can’t believe I am saying this after a loss and after all the comments I made about Cooper’s selection and tactics. But Cooper actually listened to the fans and started Ricardo. He was willing to try something new. He played Ndidi further up instead of one of the pivot positions which goes a long way towards not repeating the mistakes Rodgers made for so long and against what many fans cannot see (I would not even start Ndidi and would start Bilal or McAteer instead but that is another point). He answered our calls. But the main point is that he is showing us that he understands and he is willing to experiment - something that Rodgers never showed. That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

 

 

perversely it showed him right it certainly showed a cameo however good against the worst side in the league however good does not make you a star and of the starters  the 2 called for by me as well  as most fans were arguablly the worst 2 players and  the 2 wingers neednt have been there neither getting a shot on target or beating a man

[JimJams]

Can someone translate please?

[Chelmofox]

On 26/10/2024 at 14:02, Kierzz said:

True. It's strange that Cooper chose to play this system for the first time this season against a strong counter attacking team which could be considered it's Kryptonite.

 

Albeit it did work very well in the first half until Forest tweaked a few things

In fairness to Cooper, last season Maresca's system for us was largely undone by quickly doubling up the wingers and flooding the center of the pitch. It's how some pretty average Championship teams had success against us and Maresca struggled to have an answer to it in the latter games of last season.  We largely got through because Southampton were predictable and we scrapped through games like West Brom. This isn't Coopers system, so once it stopped working i don't think he had any clue how to deal with it. 

 

It pains me to say it but i think with our squad, the Maresca system is too easy to nullify. I think we always beat a Russell Martin team with it because he is more one dimensional, but any decent PL team will have an answer to it and then its up to us to make no mistakes which isn't happening!. Cooper is likely going to have to revert to his previous more defensive setups (expect more Ayew) and use the Maresca system as his trump card. I don't expect to see Riccy starting a PL game anytime soon.

 

One last thing from me on the team setup, it really pisses me off that the the youth options (especially Kasey but also Alves) are omitted from the squad.  Fatawu must be knackered by the 70th minute when he has 3 good players all over him.  I would much sooner see Kasey come on than Ayew in this sort of game.  

Edited 27 October 2024 by Chelmofox

[Ric Flair]

On 26/10/2024 at 13:53, inckley fox said:

Your patience is certainly admirable! I must admit, I flipped a bit last night (apologies to anyone I might have been spiky with) because I felt a big part of the problem was that he did listen to the fans. Ricardo was well off the pace, Justin is no better at LB, Fatawu was woeful and the possession football ended up playing into the hands of a capable counter-attacking team. But yes, the fans got what they were asking for!

 

So if anything I'd have to disagree with you and say that last night was a good lesson as to why you shouldn't cave in to pressure from the fans.

 

That said, whatever system we played, the errors from Facundo, Justin and Faes would have cost us dearly.

It was nothing to do with him listening to the fans. Kristiansen was injured, who else was going to play at full back? The fact he changed systems purely to use Ricardo is what bothered me most. I simply don't buy that Ricardo cannot play one of Cooper's standard full back roles.

 

Fatawu had to start, it's madness to think otherwise after a performance like the week before. Cooper will tend to do that when he gets an explosive performance off the bench from a player and that's the correct thing to do.

 

So when you break it down the team was not on the basis of giving the fans what they wanted at all but it's easy to think so.

[Will1981]

Please stop playing Enzo's tactics they will not work with this squad in this league, we are no where near good enough in possession and make far too many defensive mistakes.

 

I do not want to see Ricardo inverting into midfield again this season.

[chrishlcfc]

What tactics, there genuinely aren’t any. Still can’t see the actual shape and formation we play. 

[The Doctor]

Just now, Will1981 said:

Please stop playing Enzo's tactics they will not work with this squad in this league, we are no where near good enough in possession and make far too many defensive mistakes.

 

I do not want to see Ricardo inverting into midfield again this season.

Enzoball doesn't work under Cooper because Cooper doesn't understand how Enzoball worked in the first place. He's a limited tactician so sees the inverted full back (because it's a very obvious aspect) and not the rest of the tactics that make it function.

[JimJams]

Yes, it looks Enzo on the teamsheet, but they're not playing the system.  We're too fxxking deep for starters. That's irrespective of the fact VK isn't playing the tucked in LCB role.  The midfield was Winks and Wilf with a front 4 ahead of them.  It was the single pivot of Winks and two 8's under Enzo.  It's why our wingers look dogshit imo.  They're tasked with beating players every time and hitting one, maybe 2 targets at best in the box marked out by opposition defenders.  There's no support from the midfield on the attack.

[st albans fox]

I’m really intrigued by the last two games 

why are we inverting?  Cooper hasn’t done it before afaik.  
is it purely because we had to play Ricky and cooper doesn’t believe he is physically up to playing a standard up and down full back role ?   Can’t see that can be the case.

 

I could have bought that he did it once against forest because the boys had been asking to play that way and we were off the the back of two wins.  But again yesterday after losing that game convincingly? 
 

has cooper been leant on by those above that the quality of football isn’t what he was employed to deliver?  Had he promised to continue the possession approach that the board apparently want to embrace?   If so, then his inability to effectively play the way the board want him to could be his undoing.  Potter is definitely the person they need if that’s the case. 

[Happy Fox]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’m really intrigued by the last two games 

why are we inverting?  Cooper hasn’t done it before afaik.  
is it purely because we had to play Ricky and cooper doesn’t believe he is physically up to playing a standard up and down full back role ?   Can’t see that can be the case.

 

I could have bought that he did it once against forest because the boys had been asking to play that way and we were off the the back of two wins.  But again yesterday after losing that game convincingly? 
 

has cooper been leant on by those above that the quality of football isn’t what he was employed to deliver?  Had he promised to continue the possession approach that the board apparently want to embrace?   If so, then his inability to effectively play the way the board want him to could be his undoing.  Potter is definitely the person they need if that’s the case. 

We should go all out for him but we won’t , can see him ending up at Wolves.