First past the post voting system.

[Sampson]

I’d much rather talk about going back and having a look at the other referendum tbh.

[sishades]

3 hours ago, Zear0 said:

In 2017 when Conservatives got 42.4% and Corbyn's Labour got 40%, not sure we'd have had a particularly stable government with that mix of ministers. 

 

I also look at the state of the EU parliament, the Dutch, Israelis and don't exactly fancy having the extremists having disproportionate sway over the centrists to form a government. 

Israel is not in the EU

[Bryn]

To play devil's advocate a little, I'm not sure getting rid of FPTP actually achieves what most people would want it to. Do we actually need to look at restoring the primacy of the constituency and draw power away from Westminster, so that people feel more interested in their local constituent and not the national makeup? A PR system would turn it into a national free-for-all.

[David Hankey]

2 hours ago, goose2010 said:

personally i think the first thing they need to address is getting people to actually vote! 

 

The turn out for a General Election was shocking. 

 

Something needs to be done

And it is because of this that PR would be preferable. 

 

There will always be an element in this country who will never vote but the 40% of people who didn't bother to vote this time no doubt believe their vote doesn't count and in many ways with the system we have they are probably right.

[brookfox]

Pros and cons of any system, but not sure this looks right to me:

 

[Zear0]

40 minutes ago, sishades said:

Israel is not in the EU

I'm aware that that, there's an EU parliament for MEPs that use it as well as the Dutch and Israeli national assemblies. 

[FoxesDeb]

17 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

And it is because of this that PR would be preferable. 

 

There will always be an element in this country who will never vote but the 40% of people who didn't bother to vote this time no doubt believe their vote doesn't count and in many ways with the system we have they are probably right.

That's why people should use swapmyvote, easiest way ever to make a vote count somewhere else if it won't in your own constituency 

[Paninistickers]

5 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Would this lead to extremist parties holding balance of power in the future?

Always been the argument against. It's bull. The largest party must simply,.instead, deal with someone who isn't an extremist. 

 

3 hours ago, Lako42 said:

If it helps that slimy made up character Farage happy I don't want it. 

Dreadful argument that,  I only want democracy if it suits me. If people don't like Farage's view, then argue your point. 

 

[Daggers]

Odd that nobody complained about FPTP for the last 14 years. Wonder why?

[Spudulike]

2 hours ago, Mark_w said:

They’re about the only party whose vote share is roughly in line with their representation in the commons this time aren’t they? 

Sorry, I meant total votes, not share, that has risen by only 0.5%.

[Nalis]

I hate that PR / transferable vote would suit Reform but its the fairest system in democracy and I wouldn't have had any complaints if they got as many seat as the Lib Dems.

 

It also encourages people to vote for the parties they actually want to vote and put the bigger party down the list.

[FoxyPV]

24 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Odd that nobody complained about FPTP for the last 14 years. Wonder why?

The Greens have been giving off about FPTP for decades

[Daggers]

Just now, FoxyPV said:

The Greens have been giving off about FPTP for decades

The who?

[Daggers]

Point being, so have the Lib Dems, and yet not a peep about it anywhere. The second the right wing get dumped and the far right make limited inroads, cue the crying. 

[leicsmac]

46 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

 

 

Dreadful argument that,  I only want democracy if it suits me. If people don't like Farage's view, then argue your point. 

 

As much as I agree with the idea of some kind of PR system, I think this argument is flawed too.

 

Debate on this area in this way only works when there is a single point of truth which one party can convince the other of. But thanks largely to this digital era, the very idea of truth is being subverted and you can't argue a point against someone who genuinely believes a "different" truth exists.

 

Believe me, I wish it wasn't the case because it renders the very idea of debate practically dead in the water, but here we are.

 

Edit: to give an example, some people believe the truth is that the Earth is flat and/or 6000 years old. They believe this in spite of all evidence otherwise, and they will continue to do so. Those are extreme examples, but others exist. How can you argue the point there?

Edited 5 July 2024 by leicsmac

[Lako42]

42 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Always been the argument against. It's bull. The largest party must simply,.instead, deal with someone who isn't an extremist. 

 

Dreadful argument that,  I only want democracy if it suits me. If people don't like Farage's view, then argue your point. 

 

Fully agree it's a shocking argument. 

 

 

I just really hate the **** 

[Foxdiamond]

Somehow the 25 to 40% who don't vote is more of a concern

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

And it is because of this that PR would be preferable. 

 

There will always be an element in this country who will never vote but the 40% of people who didn't bother to vote this time no doubt believe their vote doesn't count and in many ways with the system we have they are probably right.

It might well have counted in Leicester South. 

[Lako42]

5 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Somehow the 25 to 40% who don't vote is more of a concern

Lazy brits

[Izzy]

.

Edited 5 July 2024 by Izzy
wrong thread

[FOXYTALK]

Pretty sure in Australia you get fined for not voting. 

[Tuna]

4 hours ago, goose2010 said:

personally i think the first thing they need to address is getting people to actually vote! 

 

The turn out for a General Election was shocking. 

 

Something needs to be done

I always considered this to be a very effective advert, bring it back

 

 

Edited 5 July 2024 by Tuna

[Trav Le Bleu]

6 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

Some countries have a de minimis amount (eg 5% of the vote) that you need to get above before you get any representation.

 

It didn't stop AFD and Die Linke in Germany, though, which is what happens when extremism gains in popularity.

 

 

I may be wrong, but from my history lessons of long ago, PR was complicit in the rise of the Nazi party in Germany? Which is a major reason for the resistance to it in our country.

[LVFox]

Get rid of the house of Lords, establish an elected 2nd chamber of the counties which is based on PR.

[Daggers]

5 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I may be wrong, but from my history lessons of long ago, PR was complicit in the rise of the Nazi party in Germany? Which is a major reason for the resistance to it in our country.

If people didn't like Hitler's view, they should've argued their point.