Popular Post Stadt Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April We were on 0.8 ppg under Cooper having played 10 man Southampton and Ipswich, two of the worst PL sides ever. He has an abysmal PL record because he’s a shit manager, that the board then appointed another shit manager is immaterial to how shit appointing that shit bastard was. 21 2
Popular Post FrankieADZ Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April be right here, NEITTHER was right not forgetting the Bournemouth home game as well both were crap can we stop harping on about Cooper, he wouldnt have saved us ether ffs 9
Popular Post teblin Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April I am always willing to give any manager a chance. The forest thing in for me was completely irrelevant. I don’t care about that, one of our greatest managers was a forest legend in their greatest triumph. So maybe an issue for some but not me. Im sure I said this when we appointed Cooper, but whet worried me was when we played them and beat them 4-0. They didn’t sit deep, they didn’t press and lacked seemingly lacked a plan. After 4/5 games we seemed the same. I didnt love Enzo ball, I would like us to be higher tempo and more direct at times. I knew we needed to be more “pragmatic”, but we easy to play against(that didn’t change) we scored more goals but that would’ve stopped, we had 3/4 shots on target in our last 3/4 home games under cooper. They whole season has been a poor one, that include both cooper and RVN! 5
The whole world smiles Posted 22 April Posted 22 April Hiring Steve cooper when the team was set up to play Enzo ball was a big mistake but... Sacking him when we spent the summer and a small fortune signing his players and when we were out the relegation places was also another big mistake. That being said it looks like you might need upwards of 42 points to stay up this season and there isn't a chance in hell cooper (or anyone else for that matter) gets anywhere near that. So it's for the birds but there can't be any argument that we would be a lot closer to staying up under cooper. 1
The whole world smiles Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 10 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said: Funny how those "lucky" results stopped when another manager took over! 3
Popular Post Finnegan Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April Absolutely blows my mind the amount of people not intelligent enough to hold two different opinions in their head at the same time. It is possible for Ruud to be crap and get us relegated and also Cooper to be crap and was going to get us relegated. Even if Ruud is worse (I think he actually might be to be honest) that doesn't suddenly make Cooper good. They are just both terrible managers and were terrible appointments, nothing else really needs to be discussed. 25 1
Popular Post cityfanlee23 Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April Just now, The whole world smiles said: Funny how those "lucky" results stopped when another manager took over! I completely agree on the sentiment, Cooper was getting results, however there were many on here pointing out the fact that all of the stats and metrics showed Cooper was very fortunate to be getting the results he was, we were bottom 3 for pretty much every single metric that mattered. At the time that Cooper was sacked, Mads Hermansen was performing as one of the top keepers in world football, he had an xG prevented of something like 6.5-7 which is absolutely absurd, we were nicking goals that got us points, and at the other end Hermansen was saving Coopers skin every single week. All of the metrics showed that the moment Hermansen came back to form and stopped performing like prime Buffon on steroids we would collapse. Ruud and Hermansen's injury were the catalyst for that collapse sadly, but I've no doubt Cooper would have ground more points out this year, but still take us down. 5
bmt Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 11 hours ago, Nobbyburton said: it’s absolutely nuts that people bring up the league position under Cooper. Palace and Wolves were in a false position. Cooper also had the benefit of playing 2 games we haven’t played again this season, against the worst teams in the league. Both of which we probably deserved to lose. This. I think people miss how good Wolves, and to a lesser extent Palace, have been since we were in 16th. Haven't worked the numbers out but I'm sure Wolves wouldn't be far off challenging for Europe if you remove their start. We would have been marginally better off under Cooper imo and that is purely because he was lucky. Having said that I think we would have scored quite a few more. Both horrendous appointments 2
The Horse's Mouth Posted 22 April Posted 22 April (edited) 16 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said: be right here, NEITTHER was right not forgetting the Bournemouth home game as well both were crap can we stop harping on about Cooper, he wouldnt have saved us ether ffs This is such a terrible take, wow he got us “lucky” points cooper wouldn’t have kept us up I don’t think, 17th have 36 points with 5 games to spare that’s a HUGE gap regardless, but I don’t that’s soley on him. You can talk about ayew and Reid and Skipp fair. But that defence was utter aids and we were never staying up with it. Cooper at least found a way to get points out of it. And his sacking was only justified if we at least got a Sam or a Dyche who knows what it takes to stay in the division. To twist on a manager with barely any experience was ****ing moronic Edited 22 April by The Horse's Mouth 1 1
The Horse's Mouth Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 5 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Absolutely blows my mind the amount of people not intelligent enough to hold two different opinions in their head at the same time. It is possible for Ruud to be crap and get us relegated and also Cooper to be crap and was going to get us relegated. Even if Ruud is worse (I think he actually might be to be honest) that doesn't suddenly make Cooper good. They are just both terrible managers and were terrible appointments, nothing else really needs to be discussed. It’s not even a debate, 4 points since December how are you bracketing that
cityfanlee23 Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 3 minutes ago, bmt said: This. I think people miss how good Wolves, and to a lesser extent Palace, have been since we were in 16th. Haven't worked the numbers out but I'm sure Wolves wouldn't be far off challenging for Europe if you remove their start. We would have been marginally better off under Cooper imo and that is purely because he was lucky. Having said that I think we would have scored quite a few more. Both horrendous appointments They sit around 10th since Cooper left around 6 points off European places, but in the last 10 games they are 3rd! There's no way we wouldn't have been in trouble under SC 2
Finnegan Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said: It’s not even a debate, 4 points since December how are you bracketing that Because I can't be arsed debating it, it's irrelevant isn't it, we're down anyway. I don't disagree but it's like debating whether one STD is better than another.
Popular Post AKCJ Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April (edited) 1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said: It’s not even a debate, 4 points since December how are you bracketing that I think our record would have been just as bad if we hadn't sacked Cooper. Edited 22 April by AKCJ 6
Mickyblueeyes Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 1 hour ago, Finnegan said: Absolutely blows my mind the amount of people not intelligent enough to hold two different opinions in their head at the same time. It is possible for Ruud to be crap and get us relegated and also Cooper to be crap and was going to get us relegated. Even if Ruud is worse (I think he actually might be to be honest) that doesn't suddenly make Cooper good. They are just both terrible managers and were terrible appointments, nothing else really needs to be discussed. This. Entirely this. Wolves are on what 39 points, with a few games left ? That’s after both them and Palace gave us a head start. We played Palace out of form and threw away a 2 goal lead. Wolves we all know what happened. Two different managers, shit as. Cooper hindered us significantly. Benching Perreira - not using him at all at times. Forcing Justin into a role he couldn’t do and draining him of confidence. Completely unclear on style of play. The man was the first player since Wes who looked like an actual captain last year, and to outcast him as he did is unforgivable. RVN also shit, probably more so. But Cooper being picked at the start of the season set us back significantly. He probably will get another job at this level but it will be someone who doesn’t scratch below the surface. and just to add, we’ve not looked competent this year most of the time, but on the odd occasion we have, it was playing the “Enzo way”. Neither Cooper or RVN (obviously) could keep us up. Cooper’s style, signings and strategy, set us back significantly. 2
RonnieTodger Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 1 hour ago, Finnegan said: Absolutely blows my mind the amount of people not intelligent enough to hold two different opinions in their head at the same time. It is possible for Ruud to be crap and get us relegated and also Cooper to be crap and was going to get us relegated. Even if Ruud is worse (I think he actually might be to be honest) that doesn't suddenly make Cooper good. They are just both terrible managers and were terrible appointments, nothing else really needs to be discussed. This needs pinning to all football news outlets. Sick of morons (mainly Forest fans) telling us that Cooper would’ve kept us up. It looks like we’d need 40+ pts to do that. He somehow fluked 10pts from 12 games and we were getting worse. At best, we’d have finished 18th. 4
The Horse's Mouth Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 2 hours ago, AKCJ said: I think our record would have been just as bad if we hadn't sacked Cooper. Nothing really supports this, cooper had us scoring in pretty much every game. Ruud basically turned us from an already weak and leaky defence to being unable to penetrate up top. Like I say I still stand by fact cooper wouldn’t have kept us up but we’d have definitely picked up more points 3 hours ago, Finnegan said: Because I can't be arsed debating it, it's irrelevant isn't it, we're down anyway. I don't disagree but it's like debating whether one STD is better than another. I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant as that was the twist that was meant to save our season, however I agree with the sentitment. As I alluded to I think a genuine firefighter that would keep teams up would’ve struggled with us because of how terrible our defence is. But we shouldn’t underplay what an awful appointment he was especially as we gambled at that stage
Foxin_Mad Posted 22 April Posted 22 April I think the real issue is that no decent competent manager would want to come here because we are run by inept clowns. These 2 muppets are realistically the best we can get with Rudders in charge of Football Operations.
orangecity23 Posted 22 April Posted 22 April Cooper having us scoring in most games was largely irrelevant, as his defence normally let in more than we scored. Most of the time we didn't even try to attack until we were 2-0 down. We only took the lead first against Palace (blew it) and Bournemouth (would have blown it if Evanilson hadn't tried to get a toebon a ball already going in). The rest of the time the goals came when abandoning his innefective starting tactics and the players desperately trying to claw something back. The goals against: Fulham Villa Forest Arsenal Chelsea Won us a grand total of zero points. By the time he was getting sacked, we'd reached the point where we were scoring 0 Vs Man United and conceeding 3. 3
RowlattsFox Posted 22 April Posted 22 April I don't think we'd have been quite as bad under Cooper but we'd still be comfortably relegated. Squad was never good enough. Noone knows but I couldn't see us getting battered at home by Fulham, Brentford, Palace etc under Cooper. But we will never know.
Stadt Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 30 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said: I don't think we'd have been quite as bad under Cooper but we'd still be comfortably relegated. Squad was never good enough. Noone knows but I couldn't see us getting battered at home by Fulham, Brentford, Palace etc under Cooper. But we will never know. We were so lucky under Cooper and still shit. The Forest performance was what we would have had more of and we should have been properly battered in that. We didn’t have a clue. Ruud also doesn’t have a clue and the players aren’t good enough which is the one Cooper had c. £60m of signings which he clearly picked though. 1
Popular Post Dan Posted 22 April Popular Post Posted 22 April We're incredibly fortunate to have not beaten Derby's record. 9
murphy Posted 22 April Posted 22 April Losing every week obviously has a demoralising effect on the players. Twelve games in, the players were not yet mentally defeated. There was still hope, if misguided. The cumulative effect of defeat after defeat creates a negative momentum and the players have become crushed and have checked out, hence we have a team unfit for purpose and weaker than the sum of its parts. This would have happened under Cooper too, I'm sure, but it takes time and is part of the reason that we have become worse under RVN. I can't accept that this squad, man for man, is as bad as we have shown. With the right mindset and organisation we should at least be more competitive. The other problem is that the squad is unbalanced with a lack of creativity and attacking intent. Our recruitment has not addressed that and that is largely on Cooper. He got his players in and failed to strengthen the team. 1
Danizen Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 12 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said: They sit around 10th since Cooper left around 6 points off European places, but in the last 10 games they are 3rd! There's no way we wouldn't have been in trouble under SC But the redshite hive mind on Facebook can guarantee that Cooper would have kept us up so.... 1
ozvaldo Posted 22 April Posted 22 April 12 hours ago, Stadt said: We were on 0.8 ppg under Cooper having played 10 man Southampton and Ipswich, two of the worst PL sides ever. He has an abysmal PL record because he’s a shit manager, that the board then appointed another shit manager is immaterial to how shit appointing that shit bastard was. Love the passion.
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