Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[dannythefox]

I don’t mind a points deduction if we’re guilty but we are getting treated like dog shit. They now have the issue if the points deduction is big enough they could send us down which they won’t  want to do, if we were in the top 2 a feel like this would have been done by now. Whole thing is a shambles then Man City are still there on 115 charges. 

Edited 1 February by dannythefox

[Qwerty]

16 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

I don’t mind a points deduction if we’re guilty but we are getting treated like dog shit. They now have the issue if the points deduction is big enough they could send us down which they won’t  want to do, if we were in the top 2 a feel like this would have been done by now. Whole thing is a shambles then Man City are still there on 115 charges. 

I agree.

And the longer it’s left, the more significant the deduction becomes.  There’ll come a time when the people making the decision on how many points to deduct, will be literally deciding whether we stay in the championship or go down to league 1.  And it’s not actually fair on the other teams down the bottom either, because they don’t know who they’re up against. 
So much for “fast tracking” punishments. 

[Arkie Bennett]

2 minutes ago, Qwerty said:

I agree.

And the longer it’s left, the more significant the deduction becomes.  There’ll come a time when the people making the decision on how many points to deduct, will be literally deciding whether we stay in the championship or go down to league 1.  And it’s not actually fair on the other teams down the bottom either, because they don’t know who they’re up against. 
So much for “fast tracking” punishments. 

If the infringement is regarded as serious, the punishment should be issued without undue delay.

 

Serious question...if we receive a points deduction that sees us relegated this season, is that the end of it? Or could we face another deduction in League 1 that leaves us stranded there?

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Arkie Bennett said:

If the infringement is regarded as serious, the punishment should be issued without undue delay.

 

Serious question...if we receive a points deduction that sees us relegated this season, is that the end of it? Or could we face another deduction in League 1 that leaves us stranded there?

Depends if we have broken psr in 24/25 and potentially in 25/26 

[davieG]

Professional football is nothing without the fans, sure the club management, those that advise Aiyawatt are culpable in our breaking of the rules but a points deduction that could lead to relegation hits the fans more than the management who will continue to draw their wages with I doubt any reduction.

As much as I might want to see the club fairly punished I don't relish the idea of a massive, 10 point punishment deserved or not.

[StanSP]

22 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

With -9pts we are certs for relegation but even with 4-6pts I still think we go down. 

Agreed. This squad doesn't have the minerals or mentality to fight or battle like other teams would. 

 

No leadership means there's no one to give each other a kick up the arse when it gets a bit difficult. 

[Terraloon]

1 hour ago, Vestan Pance said:

This has hung over the club for 2 years now. Absolutely shameful by the authorities. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't start next season in the same position. 

 

The damage this black cloud is doing to the club is almost as bad as the self inflicted damage. At this point it feels like the  punishment is a deliberate attempt to unsettle everything about a club by protracting the announcement of any sanctions.

Sorry it’s hung over the club because the club clearly knew that the losses in 21/22+22/23 alone which were in excess of £181 m should have set the alarm bells ringing but rather than confront matters the need for economical realism didn’t happen.

We know that the relegation in 22/23 confused things but had it not been such a disaster on the field then there would have inevitably been a PL charge in 23/4 under the accelerated procedure.

Arbitration delayed matters and had that tribunal , which I know they didn’t, agreed that the ruling was perverse, then at this point there would be a 22/23 alongside a 23/24 charge.

If you go back to my posts in mid 25 I was talking about my concerns because I always saw the outcomes as doing no more than kicking the can down the road which is exactly as I see things now.

As for staring next season in the same position I talked about that yesterday. If the club are able( which I really doubt ) to get into a play off position or slip further down the league, which is more likely, then it really would be better to try and get this matter delayed to next season.

[fox_favourite]

It's a shambles that we still don't know. If PSR rules were clearer then there wouldn't be any delays. That's the rules, you broke them, here's your punishment as written in. Everybody moves on. 

 

The fact they can make up the points total deduction based on whether your a good club is ridiculous. Theirs rules are so fully of holes it doesn't work. 

 

Professional football is completely broken, our club even more so. 

 

 

Edited 1 February by fox_favourite

[when_you're_smiling]

1 hour ago, Qwerty said:

Why?

Because it might spark a reaction. Anger, fight.

[StanSP]

Just now, when_you're_smiling said:

Because it might spark a reaction. Anger, fight.

Have you seen this group of players

 

[Terraloon]

34 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Depends if we have broken psr in 24/25 and potentially in 25/26 

We all assume that 22/23 is dead and buried. That is a reasonable assumption but the only comment I have seen on that is something that a few journalists reported was that the EFL were still looking at that year They still the have a few years before any potential charges  become time barred. 

 

As I have said on a couple of occasions I am 50-50 on 24/25. I think it’s going to be close. In terms of 25/26 I think it’s even closer but projecting forward to 26/27 which is now T+1 or even worse T+2 ( both of which we start to be factored into cash flow projections that the club will be sending to the EFL it’s the “ off the cliff” drop in revenue that’s going to be the real challenge.

[when_you're_smiling]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Have you seen this group of players

 

Ha ha. Yeah fair point. 

[Philkeavo]

We’re staring into the abyss aren’t we?

 

Aiyawatt and his band of desperadoes that run our club deserve everything that’s coming. We, the fans unfortunately will suffer the ignominy of our demise as Aiyawatt tends his horses and puts his head in the manure.

Edited 1 February by Philkeavo

[fox_favourite]

13 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Because it might spark a reaction. Anger, fight.

Do you need a cuddle? 

[ian__marshall]

52 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

Sorry it’s hung over the club because the club clearly knew that the losses in 21/22+22/23 alone which were in excess of £181 m should have set the alarm bells ringing but rather than confront matters the need for economical realism didn’t happen.

We know that the relegation in 22/23 confused things but had it not been such a disaster on the field then there would have inevitably been a PL charge in 23/4 under the accelerated procedure.

Arbitration delayed matters and had that tribunal , which I know they didn’t, agreed that the ruling was perverse, then at this point there would be a 22/23 alongside a 23/24 charge.

If you go back to my posts in mid 25 I was talking about my concerns because I always saw the outcomes as doing no more than kicking the can down the road which is exactly as I see things now.

As for staring next season in the same position I talked about that yesterday. If the club are able( which I really doubt ) to get into a play off position or slip further down the league, which is more likely, then it really would be better to try and get this matter delayed to next season.

I may have misunderstood so not 100% certain on this, but I'm pretty sure that in the amendments to the rules that were published back in April which allowed the PL to pursue us in collaboration with the EFL, they included a clause stating that all charges bought against an offending club must be settled in the same season the charge is raised.

 

To the best of my knowledge this has to be settled one way or another this season otherwise I can see us having strong grounds to claim the charge wasn't concluded in a timely manner and is therefore null and void.

 

The rationale was that to defer the punishment tangibly impacts other clubs in terms of merit awards, potential relegation, etc.

 

Ironically, the fact that the overarching changes were brought to retrospectively punish us is a nonsense. I would argue if these can apply to us then they should retrospectively apply to Everton, who, had the charges been applied during the season we went down would have been relegated, and likely would have seen both ourselves and other relegated sides be awarded higher merit payments. 

 

I've been looking everywhere for this document but weirdly can't find it on the PL website now which is very frustrating. 

 

Edited 1 February by ian__marshall

[VLC86]

45 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Because it might spark a reaction. Anger, fight.

Warn me next time before you drop your jokes, nearly choked.

[Qwerty]

49 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Because it might spark a reaction. Anger, fight.

I’m baffled by the people who keep saying they hope we’re relegated.

 

It’s a common misconception that out of defeat comes grit and determination.  It doesn’t.  Defeat produces misery, apathy, and for most of the players a move elsewhere.  Relegation to League 1 wouldn’t suddenly galvanise Top, make him employ a load of football geniuses to the board, scout brilliantly and spend hugely.  It would simply make him disengage even more.  And if he tried to sell the club, no one would want it. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, dannythefox said:

I don’t mind a points deduction if we’re guilty but we are getting treated like dog shit. They now have the issue if the points deduction is big enough they could send us down which they won’t  want to do, if we were in the top 2 a feel like this would have been done by now. Whole thing is a shambles then Man City are still there on 115 charges. 

I would argue that the cloud hanging over us has probably damaged us worse, both on and off the pitch, worse than any points deduction.

 

It's denied us recruitment of quality (it's not just coincidence that we've been shopping in the bargain basement) that has almost certainly cost us more than 5-10 pts already, in fact, we might still be in the PL.

 

Someone needs to pull their finger out, place it on the trigger and pull it.

Edited 1 February by Trav Le Bleu

[when_you're_smiling]

10 minutes ago, Qwerty said:

I’m baffled by the people who keep saying they hope we’re relegated.

 

It’s a common misconception that out of defeat comes grit and determination.  It doesn’t.  Defeat produces misery, apathy, and for most of the players a move elsewhere.  Relegation to League 1 wouldn’t suddenly galvanise Top, make him employ a load of football geniuses to the board, scout brilliantly and spend hugely.  It would simply make him disengage even more.  And if he tried to sell the club, no one would want it. 

Oh yeah, I’m talking about on the pitch the players might be sparked into life. (Naive, I know.)

 

Off the pitch they’re already just shrugging shoulders.

 

 

[st albans fox]

Is it possible that no one wants to tell top how bad it really is because they’re scared of losing their job? 
 

we’re assuming that he’s an ostrich when it could be that he’s just ignorant 

[Spiritwalker]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Is it possible that no one wants to tell top how bad it really is because they’re scared of losing their job? 
 

we’re assuming that he’s an ostrich when it could be that he’s just ignorant 

It’s more likely he’s just way out of his depth.

[dannythefox]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I would argue that the cloud hanging over us has probably damaged us worse, both on and off the pitch, worse than any points deduction.

 

It's denied us recruitment of quality (it's not just coincidence that we've been shopping in the bargain basement) that has almost certainly cost us more than 5-10 pts already, in fact, we might still be in the PL.

 

Someone needs to pull their finger out, place it on the trigger and pull it.

Definitely has made us struggle more in many ways. We might have broken the rules but it’s unfair for it to take this long, read a report last week that said end of January, 100% they know what we’re getting now but what I read was they couldn’t decide if it was the Prem or championship dishing out the punishment because it’s never been done before regarding a championship team getting punished by the Prem. What a shambles.

Edited 1 February by dannythefox

[Stadt]

We shouldn’t have lost what we did even if there was no PSR or FFP. It was totally irresponsible and reckless. Top has racked up about £500,000,000m in losses during his ownership. Given we’ve had a player trading surplus in that time it just shows you how they let a runaway wage bill snowball.

[Terraloon]

2 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

I may have misunderstood so not 100% certain on this, but I'm pretty sure that in the amendments to the rules that were published back in April which allowed the PL to pursue us in collaboration with the EFL, they included a clause stating that all charges bought against an offending club must be settled in the same season the charge is raised.

 

To the best of my knowledge this has to be settled one way or another this season otherwise I can see us having strong grounds to claim the charge wasn't concluded in a timely manner and is therefore null and void.

 

The rationale was that to defer the punishment tangibly impacts other clubs in terms of merit awards, potential relegation, etc.

 

Ironically, the fact that the overarching changes were brought to retrospectively punish us is a nonsense. I would argue if these can apply to us then they should retrospectively apply to Everton, who, had the charges been applied during the season we went down would have been relegated, and likely would have seen both ourselves and other relegated sides be awarded higher merit payments. 

 

I've been looking everywhere for this document but weirdly can't find it on the PL website now which is very frustrating. 

 

A couple of seasons ago there was outrage that Everton were able to get the first of their FFP charges delayed allowing the ultimate points deduction they received to be delayed .

The PL objected to Everton application to delay the process but the panel ruled in Everton’s favour.

The PL then bought in to being an accelerated process which provides an incredibly tight timeline from in effect a charge by mid January to all stages including any appeal to be heard in time for any sanction to take effect before the seasons end. If you look the written reasons in Everton’s second charge there were still outstanding matters in relation to that charge that weren’t resolved till months after the season ended.

 

The question of compensation payable by Everton  in respect of their delayed PL IC is still ongoing , well at least in respect of Burnley that is. The PL Arbitration hearing ended in late 25 with a ruling due any time now. 
 

The PL haven’t charged LC ( well not for the FFP one) under their rulebook it’s under the EFL rulebook and as far as I am aware there isn’t any accelerated process in their rule book.

 

My memory is cloudy with regard to the PL rule book changes and at the moment I can’t remember a rule change in April 25 . The Arbitration Tribunal didn’t publish their ruling re jurisdiction till May 25 .

[Wymsey]

Just deduct a point and be done with it..