General News Thread

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

What are Labour doing to help farmers? I will be absolutley amazed if theres a single farmer in England (never mind East mids) who will vote Labour in 4 years time

If nothing else, taking the issue that will affect those farmers more than any other with at least something approaching the seriousness it deserves, rather than dismissing it as a problem at all. 

 

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

I honestly think squabbling over whether the Tories or Labour screwed up the country’s economy is missing the point considering population ageing is crippling virtually every western economy. Well now it seems like there’s a good chance Farage will get into power in 2029 (albeit with the huge caveat that both national and world events and crisis take over and these crisis seem to happen with a ridiculous regularity in the modern world),

 

I think a lot of his voters are going to be in for a rude awakening when it turns out there’s no magic money tree where they can just throw money at things to “get things done” and that the real albatross around the government’s neck is the ageing population and that the majority of government spend goes on more and more unsustainable pension, health and care systems because older people objectively cost a hell of a lot more to the state than younger or middle aged people and the ratio of older people to tax payers is becoming more and more out of whack (the pension system alone which was designed for a small proportion of the population to have a gift for 5 years after retirement and not for having 1/3rd of the population draw from it for 20-30 years costs more to the government than education, housing and defence combined).

And this isn’t even mentioning the thing Farage is most responsible for that politicians aren’t allowed to mention anymore when Farage spent years whipping people up to vote away billions off the country’s economy ever year.

 

Yep. Big picture, people. It matters. 

[Tommy G]

8 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I honestly think squabbling over whether the Tories or Labour screwed up the country’s economy is missing the point considering population ageing is crippling virtually every western economy. Well now it seems like there’s a good chance Farage will get into power in 2029 (albeit with the huge caveat that both national and world events and crisis take over and these crisis seem to happen with a ridiculous regularity in the modern world),

 

I think a lot of his voters are going to be in for a rude awakening when it turns out there’s no magic money tree where they can just throw money at things to “get things done” and that the real albatross around the government’s neck is the ageing population and that the majority of government spend goes on more and more unsustainable pension, health and care systems because older people objectively cost a hell of a lot more to the state than younger or middle aged people and the ratio of older people to tax payers is becoming more and more out of whack (the pension system alone which was designed for a small proportion of the population to have a gift for 5 years after retirement and not for having 1/3rd of the population draw from it for 20-30 years costs more to the government than education, housing and defence combined).

And this isn’t even mentioning the thing Farage is most responsible for that thing politicians aren’t allowed to mention anymore when Farage spent years whipping people up to vote away billions off the country’s economy and government’s income every year.

 

I thought this kind of statement would come out when it all started tanking.

Agree with your points on an ageing population, perhaps there should be a national cull at 85. 

[South Shire Fox]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

If nothing else, taking the issue that will affect those farmers more than any other with at least something approaching the seriousness it deserves, rather than dismissing it as a problem at all. 

 

Yep. Big picture, people. It matters. 

The inheritance tax on farmers alone will have lost them any potential vote. Forcing them to sell land to cover the tax so the Government can have it built on certainly isnt going to sit well

[Alf Bentley]

20 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I honestly think squabbling over whether the Tories or Labour screwed up the country’s economy is missing the point considering population ageing is crippling virtually every western economy. Well now it seems like there’s a good chance Farage will get into power in 2029 (albeit with the huge caveat that both national and world events and crisis take over and these crisis seem to happen with a ridiculous regularity in the modern world),

 

I think a lot of his voters are going to be in for a rude awakening when it turns out there’s no magic money tree where they can just throw money at things to “get things done” and that the real albatross around the government’s neck is the ageing population and that the majority of government spend goes on more and more unsustainable pension, health and care systems because older people objectively cost a hell of a lot more to the state than younger or middle aged people and the ratio of older people to tax payers is becoming more and more out of whack (the pension system alone which was designed for a small proportion of the population to have a gift for 5 years after retirement and not for having 1/3rd of the population draw from it for 20-30 years costs more to the government than education, housing and defence combined).

And this isn’t even mentioning the thing Farage is most responsible for that thing politicians aren’t allowed to mention anymore when Farage spent years whipping people up to vote away billions off the country’s economy and government’s income every year.

 

 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

The inheritance tax on farmers alone will have lost them any potential vote. Forcing them to sell land to cover the tax so the Government can have it built on certainly isnt going to sit well

Absolutely agree. 

 

However, all the tax breaks in the world won't help those farmers businesses when their land is either too flood-stricken or drought-stricken to farm effectively. 

 

There's a lot of noise about how changing patterns are making it much more difficult for yields already, and it's certainly not going to get any easier. 

[Muzzy_no7]

Only a matter of time before comments mysteriously disappear, certain posters are banned and/or the thread goes. 
 

Labour and the Conservatives are equally to blame and it goes right back to awful decisions during Thatchers reign as well as Blair and Brown. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Only a matter of time before comments mysteriously disappear, certain posters are banned and/or the thread goes. 
 

Labour and the Conservatives are equally to blame and it goes right back to awful decisions during Thatchers reign as well as Blair and Brown. 

Hopefully not, it's all been pretty genial so far. 

 

There certainly appears to have been an inflection point in the late 70s/early 80s. Some European and Scandinavian nations took one route, the US, UK and some other European nations the other. 

 

The results are as everyone sees. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

55 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I could live off £9 a week if I was getting free food, housing paid for, tv paid for, mobile data paid for, free visits to places etc. 

 

You shouldn't be able to come here and get all that via our taxes, it's got to stop at some point. Those workers who used to support the country vs. those who take via taxes used to be in favour of those who support, but the numbers are going the other way now, causing the black hole we're currently facing. 

So, as I said, vent your anger at the authorities, not the immigrants, some of whom actually are genuinely desperate people., 

 

Then, after the fury against the authorities, be angry with the people smugglers who exploit the situation unscrupulously, using misinformation and coercion.

 

The people in the hotels really should be bottom of the list.

[Trav Le Bleu]

43 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I thought this kind of statement would come out when it all started tanking.

Agree with your points on an ageing population, perhaps there should be a national cull at 85. 

Dad 

[Wymsey]

Birmingham Airport hacked?..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g73rvzm20t

 

[BKLFox]

3 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

What are Labour doing to help farmers? I will be absolutley amazed if theres a single farmer in England (never mind East mids) who will vote Labour in 4 years time

Yep watching Clarksons farm really brings home how many ways farmers get screwed & now SKS wonder deal with the US allowing them to effectively bring in the entire UKs demand for ethanal tariff free cuts another window of opportunity from a farmers poor harvest.
The gov are now in communications with the UK bioethanal industry which will no doubt involve some sort of compensation / subsidy so not only are they not getting any tax's in from the deal they will end up paying out to the UK industry, although there looks to be plant closures on the horizon despite the gov's 'Keep it British invest in Britan' strapline..ooh yes SKS what a deal 

 

 

Edited 6 August 2025 by BKLFox

[Spudulike]

3 hours ago, Sampson said:

I honestly think squabbling over whether the Tories or Labour screwed up the country’s economy is missing the point considering population ageing is crippling virtually every western economy. Well now it seems like there’s a good chance Farage will get into power in 2029 (albeit with the huge caveat that both national and world events and crisis take over and these crisis seem to happen with a ridiculous regularity in the modern world),

 

I think a lot of his voters are going to be in for a rude awakening when it turns out there’s no magic money tree where they can just throw money at things to “get things done” and that the real albatross around the government’s neck is the ageing population and that the majority of government spend goes on more and more unsustainable pension, health and care systems because older people objectively cost a hell of a lot more to the state than younger or middle aged people and the ratio of older people to tax payers is becoming more and more out of whack (the pension system alone which was designed for a small proportion of the population to have a gift for 5 years after retirement and not for having 1/3rd of the population draw from it for 20-30 years costs more to the government than education, housing and defence combined).

And this isn’t even mentioning the thing Farage is most responsible for that thing politicians aren’t allowed to mention anymore when Farage spent years whipping people up to vote away billions off the country’s economy and government’s income every year.

 

Just for balance, I think it worth pointing out that not all old people are a drain on the government finances. My mother-in-law (88) still pays tax and all of her care home fees (around £1,500 per week) herself. She contributes much more to the taxman than many younger people.

[Tommy G]

26 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Birmingham Airport hacked?..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g73rvzm20t

 

No, a minor incident involving a small plane and an emergency landing

[Bellend Sebastian]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I thought this kind of statement would come out when it all started tanking.

Agree with your points on an ageing population, perhaps there should be a national cull at 85. 

My Dad is 85 and he's reached the inexplicably getting his fingers trapped in a car door stage so I think even he would be interested in this

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Yep watching Clarksons farm really brings home how many ways farmers get screwed & now SKS wonder deal with the US allowing them to effectively bring in the entire UKs demand for ethanal tariff free cuts another window of opportunity from a farmers poor harvest.
The gov are now in communications with the UK bioethanal industry which will no doubt involve some sort of compensation / subsidy so not only are they not getting any tax's in from the deal they will end up paying out to the UK industry, although there looks to be plant closures on the horizon despite the gov's 'Keep it British invest in Britan' strapline..ooh yes SKS what a deal 

 

 

And yet none of the alternatives seem capable of addressing likelythe key reason why those harvests are poor and may get much poorer soon.

 

At least the subsidy/economic issues aren't so difficult by comparison to reverse once in motion. 

[BKLFox]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And yet none of the alternatives seem capable of addressing likelythe key reason why those harvests are poor and may get much poorer soon.

 

At least the subsidy/economic issues aren't so difficult by comparison to reverse once in motion. 

 

[CosbehFox]

36 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Birmingham Airport hacked?..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g73rvzm20t

 

No there’s a plane crashed on the runway 

[Wymsey]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

No there’s a plane crashed on the runway 

But the airport website has been down for over an hour, reportedly.

[Sampson]

30 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Just for balance, I think it worth pointing out that not all old people are a drain on the government finances. My mother-in-law (88) still pays tax and all of her care home fees (around £1,500 per week) herself. She contributes much more to the taxman than many younger people.

And this is the exact problem why politicians can’t do anything about it - because people “balance” individual stories against macro economic trends. It’s not a “balancing” argument providing one anecdotal example against government budgets or clear world trends. 
 

And it’s not just about care costs, another example being as people grow older they are less likely to drive and require more public transport which is funded by the tax payer while making them less likely to pay road tax, and there are loads of these other small examples that older people tend to use tax funded services more on average. 
 

The types of jobs that are done are also dependent on having enough younger people as part of a demographic - I would guess your mother-in-law does not do the kind of physically demanding work or work which requires hours of concentration of say care workers, nurses or bus drivers which an ageing population increases the need for.

 

These are the OS’ own average findings of how much the average person contributes on tax drops as they get older but the amount they use tax payer funded goods and services in terms of benefits (I.e. pension and disability benefits) and public services (be they nhs, public transport or whatever) 

 

This isn’t personal against anyone and nor is it a slight on your mother-in-law who I’m sure works hard but she isn’t an average case spread across a 70million population and these are economic realities which politicians have kind of a political impossibility in talking about exactly because people start taking it personally and like it’s an attack on their elderly family members 

 

There is no “balance” to that. To use a Farage-ism - it’s just common sense politics - the older a population and the older the average age gets - the more that on average over a population of 70 million people- the more its working age people  are going to struggle to support the older population. How do you sustain a population of seniors (which is the way it is going given no country has successfully been able to reverse birth rates being on the floor) both economically and in terms of just pure number and types of labour needed?

 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/ageing/articles/howwouldyousupportourageingpopulation/2019-06-24

Edited 6 August 2025 by Sampson

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

 

 It's the farmers saying that they're struggling because of reduced yields due at least in part to biodiversity loss caused by changing weather patterns and overexploitation, not just me. 

 

But then I guess the first stage of grief/loss is denial. 

Edited 6 August 2025 by leicsmac

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

But the airport website has been down for over an hour, reportedly.

Due to internet traffic of people looking if their plane is cancelled or landings redirected 

[urban.spaceman]

4 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Not even going to argue as it just results in a ban, but if you can't understand how the current government is going to have to raise taxes in the autumn due to their own policies they set in the budget then there isn't hope.... even the guardian can't ignore it  

Respectfully if you can't understand how the current government's choices have been constrained by 14 years of Tory destruction, zero growth, a botched COVID response, active corruption, Liz Truss, austerity and *deliberate sabotage* before leaving office then there really isn't any hope. And I haven't even mentioned the generational damage Brexit is doing, nor the fascist in the Oval Office's antics. 

 

(For the record I don't see why you or anyone should get a ban for anything)

[urban.spaceman]

46 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

But the airport website has been down for over an hour, reportedly.

That crashed too

[Spudulike]

50 minutes ago, Sampson said:

And this is the exact problem why politicians can’t do anything about it - because people “balance” individual stories against macro economic trends. It’s not a “balancing” argument providing one anecdotal example against government budgets or clear world trends. 
 

And it’s not just about care costs, another example being as people grow older they are less likely to drive and require more public transport which is funded by the tax payer while making them less likely to pay road tax, and there are loads of these other small examples that older people tend to use tax funded services more on average. 
 

The types of jobs that are done are also dependent on having enough younger people as part of a demographic - I would guess your mother-in-law does not do the kind of physically demanding work or work which requires hours of concentration of say care workers, nurses or bus drivers which an ageing population increases the need for.

 

These are the OS’ own average findings of how much the average person contributes on tax drops as they get older but the amount they use tax payer funded goods and services in terms of benefits (I.e. pension and disability benefits) and public services (be they nhs, public transport or whatever) 

 

This isn’t personal against anyone and nor is it a slight on your mother-in-law who I’m sure works hard but she isn’t an average case spread across a 70million population and these are economic realities which politicians have kind of a political impossibility in talking about exactly because people start taking it personally and like it’s an attack on their elderly family members 

 

There is no “balance” to that. To use a Farage-ism - it’s just common sense politics - the older a population and the older the average age gets - the more that on average over a population of 70 million people- the more its working age people  are going to struggle to support the older population. How do you sustain a population of seniors (which is the way it is going given no country has successfully been able to reverse birth rates being on the floor) both economically and in terms of just pure number and types of labour needed?

 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/ageing/articles/howwouldyousupportourageingpopulation/2019-06-24

My mother-in-law doesnt use public transport or drive. She doesnt work. She has money from investments and private pensions on which she pays her tax burden. Her care home is full of self funders, she's not the only one. 

 

Not sure why you think that I was taking it as a personal attack on my relative. My point is that not all old people are a drain on public finances. Of course, working age people provide the bulk of tax. Nothing new in that.

[Sampson]

14 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

My mother-in-law doesnt use public transport or drive. She doesnt work. She has money from investments and private pensions on which she pays her tax burden. Her care home is full of self funders, she's not the only one. 

 

Not sure why you think that I was taking it as a personal attack on my relative. My point is that not all old people are a drain on public finances. Of course, working age people provide the bulk of tax. Nothing new in that.

You’re having a separate conversation and one which has personal and emotional anecdotal evidence to you though and trying to try it together with things it shouldn’t be tied to which is exactly why I feel politicians have an impossible job to bring it up in a democracy.
 

I’m talking about you stating your point is one of “balance”, saying “she’s not the only one” “not all old people are a drain on public finances” as a balance on the average costs of an ageing population and the increasing pension, health care and public service costs to the government and the shrinking ratio of tax payers and the shrinking ratio of people fit to do jobs which require taxing physical or mental labour or that require higher levels of concentration  - I just don’t think it’s balance because it’s irrelevant to the discussion, but it’s a common logical fallacy used which make it a political impossibility to discuss.

 

Saying the average older person objectively costs more and it will be unsustainable for the state to fund is not at all saying “all old people are a drain on resources”, so there is nothing there to “balance”.
 

The ageing population, pension system, rising healthcare and public services becoming unsustainable as the average age rises is a profound challenge to all western economies round the world, probably the most profound economic challenge we will face in the 21st century. That isn’t saying “all old people are a drain on politics” and trying to argue emotional individual stories are somehow a balancing argument to that is exactly why no politician wants to discuss such profound changes to our society and way of living, which humanity has never faced before and no one really has much of a clue of what to do with it, with a bargepole 

 

As for the “nothing new” again, I think that’s intellectually dishonest and trying to deflect the conversation because demographic change like this *is* extremely new - humans have never faced a situation like this before where the birth rate has dropped way below 2.0 children per women for decades while increasing life expectancy. We’ve always had societies where a large number of younger and middle aged people support a very small relative number of older people before, we’ve never faced societies where a relatively small number of younger and middle aged people have to support a large number of older people before.