General News Thread

[Innovindil]

37 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Guess Starmer might be on the way out now ?

Doubt it. Labour will firmly plant heads in sand and tell us all taxing workers to the high heavens is good for us 

[leicsmac]

One observation:

 

The political decision-making process in the UK (and it seems a few places elsewhere) has become incredibly fast-food. Which explains some of the swings that have been seen in recent elections. Going from a Conservative 80 seat majority to A Labour 170-odd seat one and then all these council results in between with huge swings.

 

I have my own theory to explain the change, but what does everyone else think about why this change has happened?

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

One observation:

 

The political decision-making process in the UK (and it seems a few places elsewhere) has become incredibly fast-food. Which explains some of the swings that have been seen in recent elections. Going from a Conservative 80 seat majority to A Labour 170-odd seat one and then all these council results in between with huge swings.

 

I have my own theory to explain the change, but what does everyone else think about why this change has happened?

The loss of nuance, ability to have a strong sensible debate, social media, rich people taking control of the media (in favour of the right wing parties)... 

[OntarioFox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

One observation:

 

The political decision-making process in the UK (and it seems a few places elsewhere) has become incredibly fast-food. Which explains some of the swings that have been seen in recent elections. Going from a Conservative 80 seat majority to A Labour 170-odd seat one and then all these council results in between with huge swings.

 

I have my own theory to explain the change, but what does everyone else think about why this change has happened?

Social media has emboldened grifters and turned huge swathes of the population (especially boomers) into reactionary drones.

 

Goes for both sides of the political spectrum, but the right capitalised on it first and more or less gained a monopoly on minds who didn't grow up with the internet.

 

Only takes a quick look at Facebook to see how unbelievably stupid some people are when it comes to taking what they see online at face value. And that was the case BEFORE AI came into the equation...

[ClaphamFox]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

One observation:

 

The political decision-making process in the UK (and it seems a few places elsewhere) has become incredibly fast-food. Which explains some of the swings that have been seen in recent elections. Going from a Conservative 80 seat majority to A Labour 170-odd seat one and then all these council results in between with huge swings.

 

I have my own theory to explain the change, but what does everyone else think about why this change has happened?

As a society we are becoming more fast food. Social media, which was once hailed as a great liberating force, has sharply reduced the public’s attention span and ability to absorb complexity. Literacy is in decline.  Nuance has gone. 

[Zear0]

People have been made poorer and blame the incumbents. 2008 people blamed Labour, cost of living booted the Tories and the same issue is giving Labour the slap right now.

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, StanSP said:

The loss of nuance, ability to have a strong sensible debate, social media, rich people taking control of the media (in favour of the right wing parties)... 

 

14 minutes ago, OntarioFox said:

Social media has emboldened grifters and turned huge swathes of the population (especially boomers) into reactionary drones.

 

Goes for both sides of the political spectrum, but the right capitalised on it first and more or less gained a monopoly on minds who didn't grow up with the internet.

 

Only takes a quick look at Facebook to see how unbelievably stupid some people are when it comes to taking what they see online at face value. And that was the case BEFORE AI came into the equation...

 

11 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

As a society we are becoming more fast food. Social media, which was once hailed as a great liberating force, has sharply reduced the public’s attention span and ability to absorb complexity. Literacy is in decline.  Nuance has gone. 

Yeah, all of these I would agree with and tallies with my own thoughts. 

 

The question, I guess then becomes... what can be done about it? Because the consequences of such a situation are already bad and are only going to become worse.

 

 

[Scanchez]

Farage is actually going to be our PM in a few years, isn't he?

Utterly depressing.

[grth2004]

Just now, Scanchez said:

Farage is actually going to be our PM in a few years, isn't he?

Utterly depressing.

It’s completely depressing knowing he will be a disaster for the country like Brexit. He's just better than anyone right now at Politics and has the backing of the right wing press. 
The worst thing is the people voting for him will suffer so hard once the NHS has gone and we’re rounding up anyone with a foreign sounding name. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Scanchez said:

Farage is actually going to be our PM in a few years, isn't he?

Utterly depressing.

All comes down to the next three years. 

 

One thing about the way things are now is that voting patterns can change on a dime. Who knows what will be going on in 2029?

[davieG]

19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

One observation:

 

The political decision-making process in the UK (and it seems a few places elsewhere) has become incredibly fast-food. Which explains some of the swings that have been seen in recent elections. Going from a Conservative 80 seat majority to A Labour 170-odd seat one and then all these council results in between with huge swings.

 

I have my own theory to explain the change, but what does everyone else think about why this change has happened?

There's always been biggish swings at local and parliament elections with the occasional flourish from the Libs/Lib Dems. In the past you were limited to two or three 10, 15, 30 min tv / radio news broadcasts and the morning and evening newspapers  Now e have the wider availability news outlets with 24hr tv / video news with dedicated right wing channels, social media and the newspapers (propaganda voices) which has helped minority parties to grab a foothold and the ability to make big inroads.,

 

The country is driven and besotted by personality and charisma of which Starmer has none. We're awash with 'famous for 5 minutes' people from 'influencers' and ex contestants of reality, often totally unreal tv shows.

 

What I'm finding hard to understand is how the leading lights of Reform are nearly all ex-Tory's. I've just watched Nadine Dorries saying how they've beaten Labour and the Torys - are people just blind or do they come across differently and not ex-Tory locally.

 

I also believe they've been helped enormously by how they've been at the top of most media political reporting in spite of their minimal representation in Parliament and locally.

[Mike Oxlong]

Apart from their position on immigration I bet the vast majority of those who voted reform don't have a clue about their broader intentions/policies if elected

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Apart from their position on immigration I bet the vast majority of those who voted reform don't have a clue about their broader intentions/policies if elected

Unfortunately for more than a few people, that issue is their single issue wonk. As unimportant by comparison to other issues it may or may not be.

[davieG]

Just now, Mike Oxlong said:

Apart from their position on immigration I bet the vast majority of those who voted reform don't have a clue about their broader intentions/policies if elected

I think that's true of the others as well. It's all just headline reading and unfortunately the majority of the head lines are right wing driven. Once it was nuanced now we're moving into Trump territory where it's just blatant misinformation and lies.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, davieG said:

I think that's true of the others as well. It's all just headline reading and unfortunately the majority of the head lines are right wing driven. Once it was nuanced now we're moving into Trump territory where it's just blatant misinformation and lies.

Yeah. 

 

But, and pardon me for repeating myself, the problem is reasonably readily apparent... but what is the solution?

 

Because someone with a combination of smarts and power is going to have to come up with one soon. 

[StanSP]

14 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Apart from their position on immigration I bet the vast majority of those who voted reform don't have a clue about their broader intentions/policies if elected

It might be a 'cut your nose off to spite your face' but I wonder if this round of elections actually opens up the reality of just how reform will run the country, and those who voted for them will realise they're not better off at all. 

 

Cutting immigration won't make a different to their daily lives or suddenly make them richer. NHS waiting lists won't change that much to a significant level, if there even is an NHS left. The people they've voted for will have richer lives; the people voting won't be any better off. 

[Brizzle Fox]

22 minutes ago, Scanchez said:

Farage is actually going to be our PM in a few years, isn't he?

Utterly depressing.

I still can't see where they get a majority from.

 

Coalition with the Tories would be his best hope but that would basically finish the Tories for a generation at least.

 

Politics is the most fragmented I can remember it, which is at least interesting. 

[Sampson]

The issues in the uk are the same in every western country - capitalism stopped working in 2008 for the average working or middle class westerner and since Covid the west been morphing into a Putin-inspired Oligarchism where a small number of US tech firms are cornering the western or even world economy and are becoming richer and more powerful than countries like the UK, France and Germany and probably within 10 years will be richer and more powerful than the US or China. 

 

Capitalism was great for a couple of generations in helping grow the economy for most people but as in football or F1, eventually the highest get so much money that they can squeeze the middle classes back down to the working classes and you’re now in a position where a couple of well educated middle-class engineers with Masters degrees in their 30s can’t afford a house or to have children and are probably going to have their jobs replaced by computers within a decade. 
 

Now the population has become old that people’s taxes are largely just spent propping up the pensions and healthcare system as well because it’s a closed feedback loop in democracy where politicians will just go after the grey vote as that’s where most of the votes are in an ageing economy. So they just say all our money is going on immigrants and disabled benefits when they money on pensions and healthcare largely used by those 65+ massively dwarves those things.

 

But away from the economy, the internet has been a net negative for society and AI will be even worse - it’s the most sophisticated technology humans have come up with and so much of the social internet been designed to make people get addicted and feel angry or like shit. Not only that but it’s massively increased the surveillance state, bureaucracy and the amount of data we have on everyone and people naively voted for this thinking “being tough on crime and immigrantion” in the 2020s meant more police and not the creation of AI facial recognition, data scraping algorithms which all employers will do quick AI searches of your entire digital footprint soon and god knows what else. And people are now made unemployable because of a post they made 10 years ago while half asleep on auto-pilot they don’t even remember.

 

Regardless of the economic side, I think the balance of technology has now become more oppressive than helpful in every day life. And your average person just feels more anxious and on edge all the time because of it. I know so many people who feel frustrated with how addicted they are to the social internet nowadays as well.

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, Brizzle Fox said:

still can't see where they get a majority from

The amount of seats Labour have lost so far (with loads of seats still to be announced) surely opens the door for the Reform wave? 

 

It is/will be utterly depressing. 

 

I know it's a cliché on here for different reasons, but some should be careful what they wish for... 

[davieG]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah. 

 

But, and pardon me for repeating myself, the problem is reasonably readily apparent... but what is the solution?

 

Because someone with a combination of smarts and power is going to have to come up with one soon. 

Maybe we need to fall before we can rise again. Empires have tended to eventually fall perhaps the West's time has come and will be replaced the East. A period of global dictatorship followed by their collapse: decades or centuries even before it swings back.

 

I feel fortunate to have lived through a time of great technical and scientific development that has improved life for many without fear of control. A relatively peaceful time. Admittedly having unknowingly or blindly ****ed up the environment. Sadly I can't see things getting better as there's a growing selfishness now as the difficulty of halting the environmental catastrophe is showing.

 

I think I need to sign out of this it's depressing me I'll look at the football news. Oh wait is there anything good to look at? 

[RowlattsFox]

As worrying as a Reform government is, it's up to the other parties to show they should be voted for instead and they are shit at it. 

I think 'reform' is a great name for a party because enough people have clearly had enough of the way politics in this country and it does need re-forming, but it's a shame it potentially could come in the likes of Farage and co. 

 

In my un-educated mind a greater share of councillors from different angles and opinions ought to be a good thing, but they'll all just tow the party line and nothing will get agreed. 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, davieG said:

Maybe we need to fall before we can rise again. Empires have tended to eventually fall perhaps the West's time has come and will be replaced the East. A period of global dictatorship followed by their collapse: decades or centuries even before it swings back.

 

I feel fortunate to have lived through a time of great technical and scientific development that has improved life for many without fear of control. A relatively peaceful time. Admittedly having unknowingly or blindly ****ed up the environment. Sadly I can't see things getting better as there's a growing selfishness now as the difficulty of halting the environmental catastrophe is showing.

 

I think I need to sign out of this it's depressing me I'll look at the football news. Oh wait is there anything good to look at? 

Well, mate; here's the really depressing thing. 

 

While I would agree that perhaps a fall is necessary to actually show people what they really have voted for and to teach them (it's had to happen numerous times before after all), the truth is that given our advances in tech, such a fall will be global, and may well be both absolute and irrevocable. 

 

As such, if humans like the idea of any kind of civilisation, then I'm not sure it's an option this time round. 

[RowlattsFox]

43 minutes ago, Scanchez said:

Farage is actually going to be our PM in a few years, isn't he?

Utterly depressing.

I still think he will avoid being PM, if it looks like he'll win he'll stand down. It's not stopped anyone before but surely there are far too many skeletons in his closet. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

I do wonder if these early results and the inevitable 'rise' of Reform that they seem to underscore, will be looked back on as the beginning of the end of that party.

There are already indications that where they do have control of councils, there are cracks beginning to show, with regard to council tax rises and so on.

Also, the fact that many of their policies have a headline grabbing and populist narrative, they are short on detail and practical implementation. 

I believe that they will be 'found out' and this 'upheaval' period will abate and the status quo (Lab/Con) will return.

That said; I do hope the traditional 'main' parties learn from what are genuine concerns an awful lot of the population have - we know what they are - and affect change somehow.

[LCFCJohn]

45 minutes ago, grth2004 said:

It’s completely depressing knowing he will be a disaster for the country like Brexit. He's just better than anyone right now at Politics and has the backing of the right wing press. 
The worst thing is the people voting for him will suffer so hard once the NHS has gone and we’re rounding up anyone with a foreign sounding name. 

To be blunt, I don’t give a crap if people who vote for them suffer. I care if those of us who won’t go near voting for them do.

 

If you’re stupid enough to vote for a one issue party, essentially out of racism, without having a clue about the rest of what they stand for, you deserve what you get. Make your bed and all that.