General News Thread

[Innovindil]

Hard to not wonder what the publics and this forums reaction would be to this if the roles were reversed tbh. Hard to believe it wouldn't have had anything to do with race then.

[lcfcell]

8 minutes ago, StanSP said:

The mum has been in custody since the incident. 

 

The judge made reference to the brother having helped him but it was bad on Digwa's lies. 

The judge referenced the dad being the only one to try and initially help Henry. 

 

If your son comes home saying you've been racially abused you're likely to believe them. I don't absolve their actions, especially mum for cleaning the murder weapon, but the son should hold 100% accountability. 

From what I’ve read (and seen a video which is actually apparently the brother) it was known in the Sikh community he was a loose cannon. 

[fox_up_north]

42 minutes ago, Raj said:

Digwa gave the knife to his mother and it was later found by police at their family home along with more than 20 other weapons.

The Sikh Federation said the blade used by Digwa was not a religious knife, known as a kirpan.

 

Digwa is a **** and it was a matter of time he did something like this unfortunately the SIkh name has been tarnished.

 

It has and it hasn't. I think the fact that the judge and Sikh community have clearly stated that his "practicing" of the religion was not in line with what is expected and traditionally practiced.

 

However, as an atheist who really has no time for religion, I think it's a good opportunity for education. If only to put hysteria to rest that many Sikhs just have a ceremonial kirpan that wouldn't pop a balloon. Engagement and openness are crucial at times like this. 

 

You are right to point out the family's involvement and there would have absolutely been opportunities to step in, by the family. They must take a portion of blame. It doesn't matter if it's your brother or son or mother, if someone you know is amassing weapons you have to report it.

[Wymsey]

16 hours ago, Raj said:

Really Sad to hear about kevin Keegan's cancer diagnosis.

People of my age will know what a legend he is when he went to newcastle as a player ( See Auf weidershen oet!) and then " I'll love it if we beat them" when he managed them.

All out attack football and a joy to watch at the time

And Kenny Dalglish, now.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clyp4e14m1do

 

[bovril]

24 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Hard to not wonder what the publics and this forums reaction would be to this if the roles were reversed tbh. Hard to believe it wouldn't have had anything to do with race then.

The roles don't even need to be reversed, people who want to find racism will find racism.

 

Half the discourse around Southport was that it's racist to call a Rwandan Rwandan. 

Edited Tuesday at 12:08 by bovril

[StanSP]

27 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Hard to not wonder what the publics and this forums reaction would be to this if the roles were reversed tbh. Hard to believe it wouldn't have had anything to do with race then.

Racism works both ways. 

 

There'll be stoking of the fires whenever these incidents play out, but until full facts are known it's not worth peddling any comments that involve racism. In this case, there's no conclusions that deem it a racist offence. Doesn't make it any less horrific. 

[Brizzle Fox]

58 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Any snippets? 

Text in here. Not a Kemi fan but I think this is well judged.

 

[bovril]

Ahhhh the English summer - beer gardens, Wimbledon, and community tensions after a brutal stabbing 

[Robo61]

2 hours ago, Stevosevic said:

As someone else has said, it is political manipulation over a long period of time that meant the police officers automatically sided with the minority in fear of being called racist, as opposed to being impartial and doing their job. 

You of course have evidence for that.  You might like to read the Judge's summing up who was clearly sympathetic to the predicament the police found themselves in.    

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, bovril said:

Ahhhh the English summer - beer gardens, Wimbledon, and community tensions after a brutal stabbing 

Don't forget inconsistent Test cricket performances, usually weather-interrupted.

[nnfox]

4 hours ago, Durnerz said:

It’s disgusting and knife crime continues to flow rampantly. When are the police and government going to implement stop and search procedures and properly crack down on this? 
 

It seems that only when it happens abroad that KS is keen to show he’s doing something proactive (see George Floyd). 

 

5 hours ago, Stevosevic said:

That’s precisely it. It’s something that has creeped in to society and become a norm.

 

Everyone is petrified of being called racist and in this case it led police officers to automatically assume a side before investigating or act impartially. 
 

 

Question and answer right there.

[ramboacdc]

The male officer who is heard saying that "he hasn't been stabbed" needs sacking, if not charges bought against him.  Didn't even check him over whilst still trying to cuff him. I know he was more than likely going to die with a stab to the heart, but still. 

[Raj]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Hard to not wonder what the publics and this forums reaction would be to this if the roles were reversed tbh. Hard to believe it wouldn't have had anything to do with race then.

Has anyone reacted in a way you would not have expected them to in this horrendous story?

 

The sikh community have come out straight away and made statements and most posters on here have been equally disgusted by the murderer and the Police.

[StanSP]

13 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

The male officer who is heard saying that "he hasn't been stabbed" needs sacking, if not charges bought against him.  Didn't even check him over whilst still trying to cuff him. I know he was more than likely going to die with a stab to the heart, but still. 

The judges comments say because of the nature and direction of the stabbing, it inflicted such severe injury that medical treatment or CPR would not have saved him due to amount of blood that went into the lung (I think?). 

 

Obviously that doesn't detract from the lack of attempt or care shown by the officer. A very stressful and tragic situation which hopefully never has to be repeated or for an officer to come across. The judge referenced the  situation officers found themselves in and seemed to sympathise with the officers given the information they had and were being told. They still should have tried to verify more than just shrugging off Henry's comments. 

[Spudulike]

The murderer wasn't put in handcuffs at any point when being taken to the police station despite what became clearly evident. Once there, he was even allowed into the kitchen to choose his food. No idea if this is routine practice for all. Henry's Father's statement references the 'unbearable' contrast with the treatment given to his son. This has to be the catalyst for change.

 

The investigation, including IOPC, report has to determine if a member of the public is being presumed guilty if they have been accused of racism. Kemi is right. Enough of this.

[Raj]

2 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The murderer wasn't put in handcuffs at any point when being taken to the police station despite what became clearly evident. Once there, he was even allowed into the kitchen to choose his food. No idea if this is routine practice for all. Henry's Father's statement references the 'unbearable' contrast with the treatment given to his son. This has to be the catalyst for change.

 

The investigation, including IOPC, report has to determine if a member of the public is being presumed guilty if they have been accused of racism. Kemi is right. Enough of this.

No its not.

 

Looking at the video the male Cop is more bothered about getting cuffs on the poor lad and asking if the killer is okay and got any injuries rather than the other way around.

 

Awful policing...no doubt "lessons will be learnt" statement from the constabulary involved...

[StanSP]

5 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Once there, he was even allowed into the kitchen to choose his food. No idea if this is routine practice for all.

Not sure about routine practice but from officers I've spoken to (not about this case, just generally after watching episodes of 24 Hours in Police Custody) they do ask them what refreshments they'd like (drinks, sandwiches etc). 

 

While they're in police custody (whatever crime they've committed serious or not) the officers have a duty to maintain their welfare. If anything if their condition and faculties are maintained it's less likely they can bring up a defence of how they were treated in the unit. 

[Robo61]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

The murderer wasn't put in handcuffs at any point when being taken to the police station despite what became clearly evident. Once there, he was even allowed into the kitchen to choose his food. No idea if this is routine practice for all. Henry's Father's statement references the 'unbearable' contrast with the treatment given to his son. This has to be the catalyst for change.

 

The investigation, including IOPC, report has to determine if a member of the public is being presumed guilty if they have been accused of racism. Kemi is right. Enough of this.

I'll wager that whenever the police recieve a report of a crime and treat it as an emergency that the caller is believed and that the accused is not.  Clearly lessons need to be learned but this was a chaotic situation and police had difficulty decisions to make under pressure and with limited information.  

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, Robo61 said:

I'll wager that whenever the police recieve a report of a crime and treat it as an emergency that the caller is believed and that the accused is not.  Clearly lessons need to be learned but this was a chaotic situation and police had difficulty decisions to make under pressure and with limited information.  

Something has really gone wrong if that's the case.

 

I don't agree that it was a chaotic situation. They would've been in far greater pressure situations. 

 

I don't want to hear about lessons being learned. How many lessons do they need?

[ramboacdc]

2 hours ago, Spudulike said:

 Once there, he was even allowed into the kitchen to choose his food. No idea if this is routine practice for all.

My friend, definetly not me, can confirm you aren't allowed out your cell to choose your food when being held in custody. They will ask if you want any food or drink, but you only leave your cell for questioning, moving cell, transport elsewhere or release. 

 

 

[bovril]

"in heaven the police are British"

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Spudulike said:

The murderer wasn't put in handcuffs at any point when being taken to the police station despite what became clearly evident. Once there, he was even allowed into the kitchen to choose his food. No idea if this is routine practice for all. Henry's Father's statement references the 'unbearable' contrast with the treatment given to his son. This has to be the catalyst for change.

 

The investigation, including IOPC, report has to determine if a member of the public is being presumed guilty if they have been accused of racism. Kemi is right. Enough of this.

On that point though, what's to gain from putting him into cuffs or the awareness that they might not trigger an allergic reaction with food? That part of the Police behaviour isn't in question. They have a situation in control and that would happen in such example if felt appropriate. 

 

It's the first part of the sorry situation is incredibly poor policing leading to uncomfortable questions. 

[Spudulike]

20 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

On that point though, what's to gain from putting him into cuffs or the awareness that they might not trigger an allergic reaction with food? That part of the Police behaviour isn't in question. They have a situation in control and that would happen in such example if felt appropriate. 

 

It's the first part of the sorry situation is incredibly poor policing leading to uncomfortable questions. 

Certainly more to gain than placing in cuffs an 18-year old lying on the ground posing no threat.

[Robo61]

49 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Something has really gone wrong if that's the case.

 

I don't agree that it was a chaotic situation. They would've been in far greater pressure situations. 

 

I don't want to hear about lessons being learned. How many lessons do they need?

The person who listened to all the evidence and has vast experience of the judicial system does not agree with you. 

[Spudulike]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

My first sentence was referring to the riots after duggans death.

 

To be honest I think those riots were a real turning point in this country both in terms of how the lessons the state took on how to deal with such disorder but also how so many people basically defended the actions of the rioters. 

More recently was the Chris Kaba shooting. The Police rushed out the footage and other evidence to quell the uprising before it became out of control.