Pro-Dyche or Anti-Dyche?

[The Horse's Mouth]

Just now, SecretPro said:

I don't know how, having seen the turnaround at Everton after his exit and seen his refusal to use youth (when in the coming season we will have some promising youth talent to utilise or some absolutely abysmal senior players) anybody can vote pro to be honest.

What youth did he refuse to use who should’ve been given a chance?

[Haywood_6]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Surely there were youngsters at Burnley and Everton that he helped bring through? 

Beyond Tarkowski, McNeil, Lowton, and Taylor it’s slim pickings. His football isn’t enjoyable, it’s not attractive and it won’t get the best out of our young talent. Anti

[teblin]

I would have been for Dyche a year ago but as people said about the turnaround under moyes is worrying.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, teblin said:

I would have been for Dyche a year ago but as people said about the turnaround under moyes is worrying.

With that logic in mind then would you consider Craig Shakespeare a better manager than Ranieri 

[teblin]

4 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

With that logic in mind then would you consider Craig Shakespeare a better manager than Ranieri 

No, but you can look at anything like that I guess. Claudio has had a bit of a record of 2nd season issues.

[los dedos]

9 minutes ago, teblin said:

I would have been for Dyche a year ago but as people said about the turnaround under moyes is worrying.

I wonder if Dyche would've improved West Ham after Moyes. 

New manager bounce and all that. 

[teblin]

I’m not completely anti Dyche just a few things worry me. 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

The obvious one is McNeil.

 

And I take the point that it's more defensive players that have come through.

 

Vokes and Ings were young when Dyche went to Burnley.

 

Agree there's not a lot!

Vokes had played 100 league games before he signed Burnley. 

[FrankieADZ]

1 hour ago, AjcW said:

 

McNeil is a myth.

Jordan Ayew has more goals from the wing than him in the same time period, including last season  

well McNeil is the only YTS hes developed, basically what I mean

46 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

Success at Everton was keeping them safe in 22-23 at our expense. Then keeping them ticking along in the points deduction saga of the following season. I think he handled it well. 

 

if thats classed as success then my word

ask everton fans what they think of his spell

[davieG]

25 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

You want to be a yo-yo club rather than get a gaffer who could come in and take us to lower league stagnation when we’d be able to attract a far better manger at that period and be able to potentially build to where we once was? 
 

I will never understand the mentality of people like you 

I don't want to be a yoyo club but I don't want stagnation with nothing to be optimistic about. I was implying that I'd rather risk relegation whilst trying to develop a team/club and be entertained not that I want to be a yoyo club.

 

Besides sticking with the likes of an uninspiring, last resort Cooper has ultimately made us to being  a yoyo club

[sylofox]

Not the easiest poll we've ever had on here to answer so I'm not voting.

 

Would I want him as a manager in the premier?  NO Do it think he could get us up ?  Yes.

 

Long term would he be good for us? No

 

But for the shitshow we have become I think we need an old school type manager.

 

Someone that's going to come in and run the shop. No messing No nonsense.

 

Him or a NFP type is probably best suited to us and what we are at the minute. We don't have the money or the players to play fancy tippy tappy type shite football. We need to get stuck in and show some bollox n fight.  Get some Steve Walsh Alan Young type players in and scare teams out of the game.

 

Get rid of all the pussies at the club. Starting with Top and Rudkin.

[MonarchFox]

I disagree with the Dyche anti youth brigade.

 

Less than 4% of academy players make a professional appearance and around 0.5% actually make a living from the game.  A few years back a stat of 0.012% get to play 1 Premier League minute.  So saying he's not chucking in several youth team players in a season is complete crap.

 

Keep in mind the top teams are also cherry picking from lower league teams to bolster there academies and he's probably been on track for bringing kids through, especially when he's managed in a Manchester and Liverpool catchment area.

 

Leicester do quite well developing youth team players and are probably slightly ahead of the curve, so I'd hope he would have slightly better options if he does come in

 

 

[KansasFox]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

The issue is I don't see him as a long term option. I think he would get us promoted but then the issue is we're in the same situation as the season just gone.

 

He's a better manager than Van Nistelrooy though.

This is actually why I’m not against it. I think that while the football might not be great, if he got us up he might keep us up. He is not a long term option but might solidify us. At the end of the day long term managers are few and far between.

[purpleronnie]

He seems the sort that wouldn't take any crap from premaddonas not pulling their weight, we have a few of those. Given who we could realistically get I'd be in the yes camp.

[whitlock]

I think with Dyche,  espeically if he is mates with Rudkin, he won't like, but probably will 'just get on with it' when he's told we have funds to spend and then January rolls around and he's told otherwise. He just strikes me as he will just get on with the hand he's dealt, whereas Rodgers and Enzo were clearly not happy and made that obvious in interviews and things.

 

I think the scenario's are different too. Everton staying in the prem and deciding to not use youth versus the Championship where the stakes in some regard are lower - more games too that even if he is anti youth, he may not have a choice but to turn to the youth, even more so if funds are going to be tight or not available.

 

I think for our current situation with everything going on, he is likely the best fit for us. He's got that Pearson vibe about him - apart from he sounds like he's munched a bowl of gravel for breakfast.

[Stadt]

Far from my first choice but I'm just about mildly pro-Dyche. I'd have preferred Rohl but Dyche is a better manager than the (shallow) pool of contenders our hierarchy could put together, Gerrard, O'Neill, Carrick et al.

 

The benefits:

- Demands hard work, basic but we've had too many soft touch managers so the Winks, Vestergaard situations have happened 

- Manager rather than head coach, above him people are incompetent so him shouldering some of the responsibility is necessary 

- Defensively secure, we've not been particularly good defensively for a long time (23/24 it was mostly high possession rather than being good unit that kept us below 1 GPG).

- Had an unfancied Burnley side up twice

- Can work with a constrained budget 

- More likely to keep us up if we get there than the standard progressive manger du jour

 

Disadvantages 

- No track record of working with young players

- His sides can struggle to score

- Talent ID is flawed

- Inflexible tactically 

- Pally with Rudkin (this is what scares me the most)

 

He's a fairly smart bloke so I personally don't think he's going to come in and consign BEK, Fatawu, Alves, Evans, Monga etc to the scrapheap instantly. Neither Burnley or Everton ever seemed to produce decent players when he was there, it's not like they had underplayed talent that have flourished elsewhere, Tom Cannon was one of Everton's better prospects . He's signed Danjuma, Ndiaye, Lindstrom at Everton so he has moved on from the purely functional winger types.

 

Whatever we do we have to sign players that are of use to Dyche but also the next manager, which was the gigantic and predictable problem with Cooper. So by all means sign a classic Dyche striker but make sure it's a Salech rather than a Kieffer Moore.

 

We go into next season with a pretty high floor but also a low-ish ceiling, I don't think he's capable of a coaching a side into 90+ points at the this stage but ~80 or so is probably about par for where we're at now.

[The Horse's Mouth]

25 minutes ago, davieG said:

I don't want to be a yoyo club but I don't want stagnation with nothing to be optimistic about. I was implying that I'd rather risk relegation whilst trying to develop a team/club and be entertained not that I want to be a yoyo club.

 

Besides sticking with the likes of an uninspiring, last resort Cooper has ultimately made us to being  a yoyo club

The word stagnation in this context makes absolutely no sense anyway, we’ve already stagnated. If we can get a manager to get us promoted and stabilise us in the lower end of the table then that is when you start to shift the focus on style of play .etc. whether Dyche is a 3 or a 4 year appointment he’d get us there in that point. Bare in mind as well, the gap between survival in the premier league from promotion is the widest it’s ever been.Anybody arsed about style of play currently is on cloud cuckoo land, this isn’t 5 years ago we’re a club with 2 relegations in 3 years wake up 

 

[the fox]

Was against the appointment of Dyche do to the "un-aesthetic brand of football" but atleast he can get his players to fight for him and the football club.

 

The club won't be like Brighton or Wolves in terms of footballing entertainment but i can't lie, sh*thousing a 2:1 away win is just as entertaining.

 

[Dan]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

If you're pro you're voting for this

 

Your future with Dyche assuming he can get us promoted is lower league stagnation or more relegation. I'd sooner take a risk and see some exciting attacking football occasionally hitting the high spots even if it means we continue to yoyo, that is more in the Leicester style. I'm not a fan of the 'Coventry' ( 25 years or so fighting against relegation) style stagnation in the lower half of the league.

Unfair - I don't think we need to appoint a manager with a view to him being here for a decade. If Dyche was to be here until say October 2027, got us promoted 2025/26, scraped survival 2026/27, started slowly and was moved on early 2027/28 - I'd be perfectly OK with this. I think it's likely better than what's actually going to play out.

[Guest]

I voted anti because I think he's a cock but all things considered I think I'm probably right in the middle. You have to take into account the people making the decisions so it's not like it's a choice between Dyche and some really exciting, progressive, upwardly-mobile manager because there likely won't be any of those on the shortlist. It's more like a choice between Dyche and keeping Ruud or getting some other dosser off the free agent pile, in which case he becomes a more attractive proposition. In short, there's no doubt we could do worse.

 

My concern about his style of play is less about entertainment and more about to what extent it's going to be the best way of getting promoted from a league in which more or less every team is going to be parking the bus against us. We are probably going to be heavy favourites for the majority of our games in a way that I'm not sure even his promotion-winning Burnley sides would have been (maybe people with better memories can correct me on that). His achievements at this level a decade ago with a very different group of players to ours and, I would suggest, a very different level of expectation don't necessarily fill me with confidence that we could expect similar results.

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, Dan said:

Unfair - I don't think we need to appoint a manager with a view to him being here for a decade. If Dyche was to be here until say October 2027, got us promoted 2025/26, scraped survival 2026/27, started slowly and was moved on early 2027/28 - I'd be perfectly OK with this. I think it's likely better than what's actually going to play out.

At which point you've got to pay him off, he's not coming here3 for anything less than a 5 year contract especially being mates with Rudkin. You'd then have the problem of reconfiguring the team to suit the style of the new manager presumably playing Top like football.. 

 

 

 

 

[AyewJoking]

we have fallen so far now Dyche is a reasonable shout but personally i just dont want him

 

 

[stox259]

I dont think we'd get relegated under Dyche in the championship lol. I wouldn't be so confident with RVN or some of the other clowns linked to the job. 

 

Dyche is a safe appointment and at the minute I am happy with safe. We can't afford to take a risk. At least Dyche will know how a club should be run and could offer experience to those at the top. 

[indierich06]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

At which point you've got to pay him off, he's not coming here3 for anything less than a 5 year contract especially being mates with Rudkin. You'd then have the problem of reconfiguring the team to suit the style of the new manager presumably playing Top like football.. 

 

 

 

 

Let's be honest, any manager we appoint is getting sacked and paid off at some point unless - like Enzo - they are poached by another club. 

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

Far from my first choice but I'm just about mildly pro-Dyche. I'd have preferred Rohl but Dyche is a better manager than the (shallow) pool of contenders our hierarchy could put together, Gerrard, O'Neill, Carrick et al.

 

The benefits:

- Demands hard work, basic but we've had too many soft touch managers so the Winks, Vestergaard situations have happened 

- Manager rather than head coach, above him people are incompetent so him shouldering some of the responsibility is necessary 

- Defensively secure, we've not been particularly good defensively for a long time (23/24 it was mostly high possession rather than being good unit that kept us below 1 GPG).

- Had an unfancied Burnley side up twice

- Can work with a constrained budget 

- More likely to keep us up if we get there than the standard progressive manger du jour

 

Disadvantages 

- No track record of working with young players

- His sides can struggle to score

- Talent ID is flawed

- Inflexible tactically 

- Pally with Rudkin (this is what scares me the most)

 

He's a fairly smart bloke so I personally don't think he's going to come in and consign BEK, Fatawu, Alves, Evans, Monga etc to the scrapheap instantly. Neither Burnley or Everton ever seemed to produce decent players when he was there, it's not like they had underplayed talent that have flourished elsewhere, Tom Cannon was one of Everton's better prospects . He's signed Danjuma, Ndiaye, Lindstrom at Everton so he has moved on from the purely functional winger types.

 

Whatever we do we have to sign players that are of use to Dyche but also the next manager, which was the gigantic and predictable problem with Cooper. So by all means sign a classic Dyche striker but make sure it's a Salech rather than a Kieffer Moore.

 

We go into next season with a pretty high floor but also a low-ish ceiling, I don't think he's capable of a coaching a side into 90+ points at the this stage but ~80 or so is probably about par for where we're at now.

Pretty fair assessment.