Russell Martin - Confirmed as First Team Manager

[weacceptrejects]

Russell has failed in every job hes had, after Saturday it obvious he can't pick his nose nevermind a team, we were well beaten by a minor club with 12 senior players.

The Forest owner would have sacked him at 5.15pm yesterday. 

[trooky]

1 hour ago, VLC86 said:

The slop we are serving up is not Pep ball.

Agreed, it's pound shop pep

[fleckneymike]

The ludicrous thing is we’re choosing to play this way not because we need to but because we want to. 
 

There is no ‘tactical’ need to play this way in league one. We don’t need to try and pass anyone to death or out think them because we’re unevenly matched or out resourced. Perversely we’ve chosen to adopt a system that actively encourages a low block from the opposition; that actively encourages them to target Okoli and Thomas; that guarantees them space on the counter attack.
 

We’re choosing to beat ourselves. 
We’re choosing to persist with a style that is a poor imitation of elite football with players who earn in a week what the entire opposition earn. 

[Happy Fox]

1 minute ago, trooky said:

Agreed, it's pound shop pep

More like penny shop pep and that’s me being kind! 

[fox_favourite]

1 minute ago, trooky said:

Agreed, it's pound shop pep

I think it's the volunteer who thinks he's Pep. 

[AKCJ]

Was out all day yesterday. How bad really was it? Seems like a brand new low.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

2 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

The ludicrous thing is we’re choosing to play this way not because we need to but because we want to. 
 

There is no ‘tactical’ need to play this way in league one. We don’t need to try and pass anyone to death or out think them because we’re unevenly matched or out resourced. Perversely we’ve chosen to adopt a system that actively encourages a low block from the opposition; that actively encourages them to target Okoli and Thomas; that guarantees them space on the counter attack.
 

We’re choosing to beat ourselves. 
We’re choosing to persist with a style that is a poor imitation of elite football with players who earn in a week what the entire opposition earn. 

 

We have the most handsomely paid squad in the league with a tonne of attacking talent and we choose to play this timid, meek football. Can't remember the last time the club felt like it had a set of bollocks apart from pre-Christmas under Maresca

[Zear0]

People at the club were genuinely taken in by this guy and had weirdly placed confidence this season would be a success. Painful similarities to Brendan pulling the wood over the eyes of the staff and players in the Seagrave bubble

[lcfcbluearmy]

11 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

There’s no historical evidence that playing a different style of football at this club will more suit Okoli, Skipp, Thomas, BDCR. They’ve been shit previously playing the different styles that span Cooper Ball, RVN Ball, Cifuentes Ball, & Rowett Ball. Our fortunes won’t change whilst we are reliant on these players, irrespective of who the manager is and what style he tries to play. 

None of which actually ever really tried a different style of football they all played slow possession based never get the ball in the box passport from the back nonsense. 

 

We need to play quick counter attacking football 4-4 fing 2 back to basics target man up front get balls into the box high pressure to win it back when we lose it

[davieG]

Bottom line we don't have skill set, especially defensively to even play Pep Lite.
 

[MGLCFC]

You can forget about him being sacked for the foreseeable future, because we can't afford to. Even if we have new owners, this isn't going to happen anytime soon. The owner and Rudders are either convinced this is how the game should be played and if so they need to ensure the right personnel are appointed on the playing front to at least give RM a chance to play his style adequately or they are just thick and haven't a clue what they are doing. My gut instinct tells me the latter.

[lcfcbluearmy]

3 hours ago, deep blue said:

That's a really good point.  I remember some seasons back a manager (it might have been Pearson) being barred by the FA from operating from the bench for a couple of games and having to view it from up in the stands.  He made the comment that the view of the game from that bit higher up was quite enlightening; gave him a different and more profitable angle on proceedings.

Tes it was Pearson he then kept sitting in the stands on and off for quite a while afterwards

[Silva Fox]

6 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Was out all day yesterday. How bad really was it? Seems like a brand new low.

I would just advise you to go back out and stay out!

[DJ Barry Hammond]

The growing issue for me is it appears Martin doesn’t even understand how his preferred formation / play style works! 
 

You look at the signings that look like he’s had a big influence in; McCarthy, Cullen, Chaplin - they don’t really make much sense in terms of fitting into what he wants to do.

 

You can also look at his team selections - it’s quite clear that neither Skipp or Cullen suit the roles he’s asking them to play.

 

Cullen is quite clear more of a 10 and Skipp has neither the athleticism to provide the crucial defensive cover or the passing range and vision to be an effective quarterback.

 

The placing of Skipp feels even more egregious when you consider it’s such a crucial position for his chosen formation and play style?
 

Finally, only of key attacking ideas when playing with two 8’s is to use them to attack the half space, those channels between full back and centre back - something we would see regularly under Enzo with KDH and Ndidi.

 

These sort of movements / combinations have been barely witnessed in our games under Martin to date, to the extent you have to question is he even coaching this key pattern of play concept during the week?

[Chelmofox]

11 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

So if you are a crap football manager and say you take responsibilty you are a fraud?

 

It could he's just being honest but also not very good?

 

He's been doing this his whole managerial career though. Unless you see something different from him, its all word salad. I'm as pragmatic as anyone on here - and i dont think what i am saying is unreasonable. I have been massively disappointed with him since preseason, where he seemed to simply favour everything he had done before and avoid all the things that looked positive. I wish we had lost the Northampton game, because that may have made him think a little more, but i doubt it still. 

 

11 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Or thinking **** me, Okoli and Souttar are crap.

 

He's had all preseason to realise that, so no sympathy. All energy around incomings has been in other positions. He's given very little preseason time to Kevon Gray (who was on the bench last season remember), which even if you think he's not ready yet is still scandalous as we had no backup at all yesterday.  I appreciate the injury to Nelson, but i look at our setup yesterday and thank f4ck he wasn't playing, because it would have been horrible for him. We cant hire CB's because there will be noone available at our price point (i.e nothing) that fits the profile needed.

 

The CB situation was perilous even after the Northampton game (i posted as such after that game). We have a slow low block specialist who can't play football and the only Italian CB in world football who cant play football. And both want out. Russells genius solution to this, is to force them to play his style of kamikaze football. Not take a more pragmatic blueprint of it, and tweak it game by game. No!, go all in on game one. Im not asking to start playing a completely different system. I am shocked that Martin hasn't nudged closer to what he wants game by game, he has gone all in. It shows me he has no idea what he is doing.

 

Russell is moaning about the first 25 mins (which was sh1t), but i thought we were at our worst was the first 10 mins of the 2nd half. It felt like we had ramped up the possession and out the back play. One moment McCarthy passed to Souttar in our box when an attacker was running at Souttar, and he subsequently lost the ball. Another moment when Luke attempted the 'Winks' sideways pass to Aluko on the edge of the box from the goalkeeper, but completely mistimed it and gave it away. This was the worst 10 minutes of football i have ever seen us play. Doesn't get a mention from the manager, probably because they were doing what the were told. 

 

 

 

 

[trooky]

12 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

More like penny shop pep and that’s me being kind! 

😂 That was the point of the article thought, the lower league teams that try to copy it can't afford or recruit the quality of player needed to make it work. 

 

Most teams are moving away from this obsession opting for fast paced, hard work, running and pressing. 

[KFS]

I actually saw signs yesterday that we could be pretty good. It’s just the absolute shite that continue to stink the place out need to be cut loose. I don’t mind if you’re trying and mess up, but half arsing something and a history of failure (Skipp, Thomas, Okoli)… that’s unacceptable 

[coolhandfox]

5 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

 

He's been doing this his whole managerial career though. Unless you see something different from him, its all word salad. I'm as pragmatic as anyone on here - and i dont think what i am saying is unreasonable. I have been massively disappointed with him since preseason, where he seemed to simply favour everything he had done before and avoid all the things that looked positive. I wish we had lost the Northampton game, because that may have made him think a little more, but i doubt it still. 

 

 

He's had all preseason to realise that, so no sympathy. All energy around incomings has been in other positions. He's given very little preseason time to Kevon Gray (who was on the bench last season remember), which even if you think he's not ready yet is still scandalous as we had no backup at all yesterday.  I appreciate the injury to Nelson, but i look at our setup yesterday and thank f4ck he wasn't playing, because it would have been horrible for him. We cant hire CB's because there will be noone available at our price point (i.e nothing) that fits the profile needed.

 

The CB situation was perilous even after the Northampton game (i posted as such after that game). We have a slow low block specialist who can't play football and the only Italian CB in world football who cant play football. And both want out. Russells genius solution to this, is to force them to play his style of kamikaze football. Not take a more pragmatic blueprint of it, and tweak it game by game. No!, go all in on game one. Im not asking to start playing a completely different system. I am shocked that Martin hasn't nudged closer to what he wants game by game, he has gone all in. It shows me he has no idea what he is doing.

 

Russell is moaning about the first 25 mins (which was sh1t), but i thought we were at our worst was the first 10 mins of the 2nd half. It felt like we had ramped up the possession and out the back play. One moment McCarthy passed to Souttar in our box when an attacker was running at Souttar, and he subsequently lost the ball. Another moment when Luke attempted the 'Winks' sideways pass to Aluko on the edge of the box from the goalkeeper, but completely mistimed it and gave it away. This was the worst 10 minutes of football i have ever seen us play. Doesn't get a mention from the manager, probably because they were doing what the were told. 

 

 

 

 

So you think the CB problem is down to him and not picking Gray? 

 

Where have you been in the last 5 years? 

 

You also think the errors the CBs made our due to our style of of play.

 

 

Edited 23 August by coolhandfox

[Foxin_Mad]

I can’t help thinking if Gary Rowett played a style he had never played before last year, that Jon Rudkin is behind a lot of the team selection, ensuring we have ‘value’ for the quality him and his recruitment team have brought in. It can be the only answer for successive so called professional managers playing Okoli, Skipp and Thomas as they offer nothing. I expected long ball, a bit of rough and tumble, 0-0 wins etc under Rowett. To me he played a style alien to him. Nothing changes whilst Rudders is here, no manager worth his salt would work under these clowns. We either hope Martin can somehow turn it around or we probably end up with some absolute clogger like Rick Passmore

Edited 23 August by Foxin_Mad

[Chelmofox]

15 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

The ludicrous thing is we’re choosing to play this way not because we need to but because we want to. 
 

There is no ‘tactical’ need to play this way in league one. We don’t need to try and pass anyone to death or out think them because we’re unevenly matched or out resourced. Perversely we’ve chosen to adopt a system that actively encourages a low block from the opposition; that actively encourages them to target Okoli and Thomas; that guarantees them space on the counter attack.
 

We’re choosing to beat ourselves. 
We’re choosing to persist with a style that is a poor imitation of elite football with players who earn in a week what the entire opposition earn. 

I said to my son on the way home yesterday, if I was a L1 manager playing us, i would simply boot the ball out for a Leicester goal kick everytime.  You know exactly what is going to happen and what to do. And you 100% know that between Souttar, Okoli, Thomas and McCarthy, a mistake is coming. You literally dont need another tactic, and you don't even need to press Okoli because he cant do anything with the ball anyway. Just run the keeper and Souttar ragged every time they play out. 

 

Said in another post, the i genuinely thought Russell would tone done this part of his game. Really shocked hes gone all in with it.

[teblin]

14 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

People at the club were genuinely taken in by this guy and had weirdly placed confidence this season would be a success. Painful similarities to Brendan pulling the wood over the eyes of the staff and players in the Seagrave bubble

Difference between him and Brendan we and he had success under him. Martin has had one season of success with a team that probably should have finished in top 2.

 

One that we smashed 9-1 over 2 games.

 

I wanted to give him a chance, still will for a couple more games but the 3 competitive games under him have been woeful.

[Zear0]

Just now, teblin said:

Difference between him and Brendan we and he had success under him. Martin has had one season of success with a team that probably should have finished in top 2.

 

One that we smashed 9-1 over 2 games.

 

I wanted to give him a chance, still will for a couple more games but the 3 competitive games under him have been woeful.

Yeah was just more thinking of the end of his tenure where him and the squad were living in pure fantasy land and couldn’t recognise the trouble they were in.

[Winstonthedog]

14 minutes ago, weacceptrejects said:

Russell has failed in every job hes had, after Saturday it obvious he can't pick his nose nevermind a team, we were well beaten by a minor club with 12 senior players.

The Forest owner would have sacked him at 5.15pm yesterday. 

True his win rate at any club he has managed is poor .... which shouts out to me  .. he prefers not to lose rather than win ... which is clearly obvious from how he picks and sets his teams up .... and I admit its very early days however once the transfer window closes and we are stuck with some of the dross on show now it's not looking great 

[Chelmofox]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

So you think the CB problem is down to him and not picking Gray? 

 

Where have you been in the last 5 years? 

 

You also think the errors the CBs made our due to our style of of play.

Cmon, dont twist my words. I said its criminal right now that Gray is not remotely prepared to be backup. Its just part of a wider problem. I said after Northampton that we needed a complete refresh of CB (funny that a lot told me on here that Souttar would be just fine at this level), but its clear that we are nowhere near that right now. 

 

The errors our CB's made are because they are not good football players (and want out and have downed tools), and are subsequently massively exposed by the style of play.  We've known for ages that once Okoli's confidence is broken he becomes even more of a liability.  Sometimes (like Souttar), these players end up in teams where their flaws dont matter much (like Australia), but in those systems these players aren't winners, they just get results from time to time.

 

Russell could have toned down this style slightly to accommodate the CB problem, but he hasn't. I blame the manager for that. I presume that he thought it simply wouldnt be a problem and quality would grind out results. Part of me respects him for that, but that lands on his shoulders. I'll say it again, i don't think we need Martin to turn into Tony Mowbray or Big Sam overnight, he just needs to dial it down a little in key areas.

 

So yeah, we have terrible CB's, terrible recruitment, and a manager who is not capable of either reading the room or making better use of what he has. We also have a problem where we are going to be looking for a profile of CB that we cant afford.

 

Yes, the club has been a shambles over the last 5 years. But that doesnt mean the Martin is exempt from criticism for the last 2 games. 

[Richmondfox]

29 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

The ludicrous thing is we’re choosing to play this way not because we need to but because we want to. 
 

There is no ‘tactical’ need to play this way in league one. We don’t need to try and pass anyone to death or out think them because we’re unevenly matched or out resourced. Perversely we’ve chosen to adopt a system that actively encourages a low block from the opposition; that actively encourages them to target Okoli and Thomas; that guarantees them space on the counter attack.
 

We’re choosing to beat ourselves. 
We’re choosing to persist with a style that is a poor imitation of elite football with players who earn in a week what the entire opposition earn. 

It's frustrating watching them piss about trying to pass into tight areas into the middle, hoping they can bounce a ball wide when the wingers have been umarked in space all game.  We scored a nice goal by playing quick football that involved both wingers. Even worse was the poor passes from Soutter down the middle, several were wasted and you saw Sammy throwing his arms up at him.

 

Persisting with Thomas who won't pass the ball forwards or move,.  Aluko had the confidence to try and make things happen by getting forwards but he will take a few games to gel with Burns, mainly because he was passing behind to the feet rather than into space like you could see Burns wanted.  That's a hang up from the previous wingers and poor coaching staff, you would assume a pro like Burns would tell his RB the service he needs so I think hey will come good.

 

Skipp can't tackle, his style is to run into a player and most times he runs over the ball.  Thankfully he is out but then replaced by Hamza.  A player that doesn't  know what to do with the ball once he gets it.  His passing under zero pressure was terrible.