Thatcher Dies

[Daggers]

The damage is already done.

I defy anyone to say any service which was privatised is actually better now. Look at how many people Railtrack killed. What about energy prices? That's worked out for us hasn't it? Public transport is a joke and Royal Mail is going the same way. This is because private companies look after their share holder's before having any concern for the service they provide.

On the subject of coal, we now export coal from Poland and other places at great expense because it is too expensive to open up our own mines. The skills and communities which served the mines have been scattered too. Where is any government going to get the money to renationalise these industries? It just won't happen.

Thatcher sold the family jewels and in return, some working class families got to buy their council houses and own a Ford Escort. Well done them !! If any felt happy about this trade then they were too stupid to have the vote in the first place.

Anyway...on to the military, education and the NHS. Some people will be cheering and clapping to see Thatcher's progeny selling these to the highest bidder won't they?

For the record, Thatcher's defence cuts caused the Falklands War by removing Endeavour, a Royal Navy Arctic patrol ship which served the islands, and giving the Argentinians a green light to invade. Many of the aircraft and ships used to liberate the Falklands had to be rescued from the scrapheap to be used. If the Argentinians had waited six months, we wouldn't have been capable of retaking them.

Thatcher introduced greed, selfishness and contempt for your fellow man to the political lexicon of this country. If anyone doesn't believe this, then look at the deluded, arrogant and entitled opinions expressed by some on this forum. Before Thatcher, being an arsehole would've been frowned upon in this country.

If Hell exists, she deserves centre stage !!

Another thing, you cannot pin overspending pre-Thatcher on the Labour party.

For one thing, though Labour were in power up until 1979, that decade was characterised by short term governments and coalitions. You cannot blame everything in the 70s on any particular party, not even the Tories.

Secondly, as Sir Alf Ramsey has pointed out, there was a social-democratic consensus between the parties following WWII. This was the work of the Attlee government elected directly following WWII. By nationalising many industries, ensuring jobs for returning troops and ensuring everyone had free healthcare, this Labour government shifted the ballpark in a similar way that Thatcher did in the 80s. It is very easy to criticise 'jobs for life' now but at the time, it was immensely popular and maybe even the right thing to do.

Thirdly, Callaghan was the British premier who introduced monetary policy, not Thatcher. Thatcher was just obsessed with squeezing money out of the system, regardless of whether it seemed to be working or not. (Seem familiar?) Her ideological application of monetary policy is what caused so much damage and distress in a similar way to the current economic policies of the coalition. Britain did become wealthy again in the 80s, but I would say this was despite Thatcher, not because of her.

I think it would be difficult to find many who would want a return to the 'jobs for life' ethic of the post-war days. Even the Labour Party has removed the requirement for full employment from it's constitution. The world changes and politics and economics have to change with it.

But...does anyone really want to see a return to the 19th Century? The Tories would have us believe they are modernisers, but the truth is, at every opportunity, they try to turn the clock back to a time when the rich could ruthlessly exploit the poor.

Two outstanding posts, you have a lot more time and patience than I can bother with.

Time for another drink, cheers everyone.

[Deucalion]

Mid-Staff hospital killed more people than Railtrack, so a quick comparison to equate private as bad, public as good is cheap and poor.

Energy prices have risen around the world whether nationalised or private. I agree that the energy market is not working as well as it should, so needs to be looked at but nationalisation is not the answer.

So it's cheaper to import coal from Poland? In which case, why the complaint?

Again, no major party has reversed this policy or is campaigning to reverse it.

Any private company will first of all look after profit and shareholders, service provision comes a very poor second. I personally don't believe in state ownership of everything, however, state ownership of vital services means service provision will be primary objective of the organisation. Railtrack killed people because they did not invest or maintain train track. Deaths are not usually a bi-product of rail companies, it is not a fair comparison with Staffordshire NHS Trust, because death is clearly a day to day occurrence in healthcare provision.

No one has reversed privatisation because it was hugely expensive to nationalise industries in the first place. It took the trauma of WWII to provide to political will to do it and colonial withdrawal to pay for it. These conditions are not likely to happen again, so anything important which is privatised is likely to stay privatised.

During the Miner's Strikes, Thatcher was paying more to import coal from Poland than it cost to produce it in the UK. Even though there are economically viable coal seams in Britain, the start up costs are prohibitive.

[z-layrex]

Apparently there won't be a minutes silence at the game tonight. Shame, would have loved to have heard the boos

You sad, sad man. An old lady who used to have a fierce intellect has passed away after a horrible decline from Dementia...

[l444ry]

Whilst the Falkland War helped boost her image, I think it's excuse searching, by those in the Labour party who misjudged the mood of the nation, in the same way that Conservatives made cheap excuses after 1997 when they were being trounced.

Don't think so Breadandcheese. Just before the war her poll ratings were the lowest in polling history. When the troops came back her ratings were the highest she had ever achieved. So it must have had some effect. The formation of the SDP split the anti-Tory vote and although they increased their parliamentary majority they did it with 700,000 less votes than 1979.

[Zingari]

Any private company will first of all look after profit and shareholders, service provision comes a very poor second. I personally don't believe in state ownership of everything, however, state ownership of vital services means service provision will be primary objective of the organisation. Railtrack killed people because they did not invest or maintain train track. Deaths are not usually a bi-product of rail companies, it is not a fair comparison with Staffordshire NHS Trust, because death is clearly a day to day occurrence in healthcare provision.

No one has reversed privatisation because it was hugely expensive to nationalise industries in the first place. It took the trauma of WWII to provide to political will to do it and colonial withdrawal to pay for it. These conditions are not likely to happen again, so anything important which is privatised is likely to stay privatised.

During the Miner's Strikes, Thatcher was paying more to import coal from Poland than it cost to produce it in the UK. Even though there are economically viable coal seams in Britain, the start up costs are prohibitive.

If i remember correctly the coal imported from Poland was heavily subsidised which distorted the viability our own mines .

Agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread

[The Doctor]

You haven't got a clue mate

What? Everything I've said there is true - she lended aid to the khymer rouge and the massacre they commited, covered up Hillsborough and attacked the mining communities - all reasons to despise her

[ousefox]

You sad, sad man. An old lady who used to have a fierce intellect has passed away after a horrible decline from Dementia...

An old lady who was responsible for the Poll Tax, attempts to crush the unions, pit closures, getting rid of milk, Wapping, mass unemployment, the Hillsborough cover up, supporting a dictator, and calling Mandela a terrorist.

Today is not a sad day.

[Ross-Kemp]

Are people seriously ****ing moaning because she got rid of milk and closed the mines ???

My god, you people are pathetic.

[z-layrex]

An old lady who was responsible for the Poll Tax, attempts to crush the unions, pit closures, getting rid of milk, Wapping, mass unemployment, the Hillsborough cover up, supporting a dictator, and calling Mandela a terrorist.

Today is not a sad day.

I'm not even going to argue with you, what would be the point. Even if you hated her as a politician, it's someone passing away. Have some ****ing dignity.

Oh and Mandela is a terrorist.

[Daggers]

Tories bitching because other people aren't demonstrating concern and sympathy?!

You couldn't fvcking make it up.

[Guest MattP]

Even I didn't realise just how sick the left was until today.

[z-layrex]

Tories bitching because other people aren't demonstrating concern and sympathy?!

You couldn't fvcking make it up.

I'm not a tory.

[Daggers]

Northern Britain already hammered

08-04-13

EVERYONE in Britain north of Birmingham is already very drunk indeed.

‘It’s a release is what it is’

Eyewitnesses said the drinking started within seconds of the announcement and was of a ferocious intensity.

Police in Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool and Glasgow have been told to take the rest of the week off as local authorities said they will tidy everything up ‘at some point’.

Nathan Muir, a southerner visiting Derby on what passes for business in the midlands, said: “I was in a meeting when someone spotted the news on their smartphone. The booze appeared instantly. I have no idea where it came from. It was like they had been waiting a very long time and were fully prepared.

“I would say they were all aggressively drunk within four to five minutes. I think it was the adrenalin rush, combined with the funnels.

“Anyway, I quickly felt as if I did not belong, particularly when a half empty vodka bottle whizzed past my head, before exploding against the Derby Enterprise Zone poster on the wall.â€

He added: “As I made a dash for the car park, I was almost killed as a desk smashed through a second floor window and completely destroyed a Nissan Qashqai.

“Then this woman stuck her head out of the broken window and shouted, ‘lets find Tebbit and piss on his face’.â€

A spokesman for Merseyside Fire Brigade said: “We’re going to let things burn. If we put it out they will just set fire to it again. Plus, we don’t want to seem like killjoys.â€

‘lets find Tebbit and piss on his face’

[ADK]

I actually think shutting the mines was a good thing. Good for the environment and good for the economy in the long term. We arnt a resource gathering economy and with the trade unions having the power to bring down governments something had to be done. I can't imagine wanting to take a job at a mine and die shortly after retirement too. Jobs for life sounds more like feudalism than a modern democracy. So i'd say the Thatcher government did well in moving decisively to solve an economic problem while actually overseeing quite an increase in GDP.

[Daggers]

I'm not a tory.

I couldn't give a fvck what you are.

[z-layrex]

I couldn't give a fvck what you are.

Then why call me a tory? Great attitude by the way.

[MC Prussian]

Looking in from the outside, I do believe deep inside, she only wanted what was best for Britain.

Sadly, the measures she took crushed many parts of the country for the long term.

She was a woman in the elite of men and had to be manlier than anybody else.

I only heard about some of the union's influence (in particular in the North), and I can see that she helped crack a very ancient system.

The general privatization of many public sectors was a step too many and using a war abroad to cover up your own deficiencies at home wasn't really clever at all.

But to be fair, I don't think it was all down to Thatcher alone. She was also just a tool in the greater scheme of things, in a United Kingdom still somewhat infested with the spirit of the British Empire, a culture of Conquer and Divide.

The centralization of power, however, the forced death of national economies and the subsequent promotion of London as THE capital with the all-too fatal focus on the banking industry, will probably leave a sour aftertaste looking at her achievements over the years.

In many aspects, she is but a scapegoat for the failures of others who were either with her at the time or ruled before her.

Not that I excempt her from all criticism, mind you.

[Fox in the North]

Well this thread was going to be a tad predictable As someone who was born in the 90s and not really having any serious political leanings (I really wouldn't know where to start), I'm just going to pay my respects and get on with my life alright?

[Trav Le Bleu]

My condolences to Webbo.

[Guest MattP]

An old lady who was responsible for the Poll Tax, attempts to crush the unions, pit closures, getting rid of milk, Wapping, mass unemployment, the Hillsborough cover up, supporting a dictator, and calling Mandela a terrorist.

The Unions will never get over their complete and abject humiliation at the hands of Mrs Thatcher.

[Zingari]

My uncle Camlo just said he intends to dance on her grave but he's scared he'd lose his disability benefit .

[leicsmac]

This thread has been pure all the way through.

Never a more polarising figure in British politics, in fact in Britain as a whole.

[Webbo]

My condolences to Webbo.

Driving home tonight I was expecting a few posts like these, so far you're the first.

[HEGGSY]

This thread is fantastic,

I wasn't born for another 16 until after she took over as PM. That's as far as my political awareness towards the woman goes. I wish I had a side to this argument so I could chip in

Give me a sales pitch as to which side I should choose?

Is she a lovely woman? Or is she a bitch?

And, GO!

[Trav Le Bleu]

Driving home tonight I was expecting a few posts like these, so far you're the first.

Don't say I never think of you.

It was either you or Jon the Hat.