Thatcher Dies

[acooling08]

Just reading some of the journalistic opinions.

Apparently in the 70s, the country was on its needs.

Labour had borrowed so much money we were drowning (no surprises there, where have I seen that since?).

We were referred to as the 'sick man of europe'

We had to do a 3 day week due to power shortages.

Rubbish piled up on the streets.

Thatcher came into power and got us going again, made us a serious power again.

I can't understand left wingers at all.. yes mining was hit but that was always going to happen in a competitive market anyway.

[Deucalion]

I demand a recount.

Marvellous woman, best PM we've ever had. PS The 3 day week was under Ted Heath.

I just accidentally gave a rep point for this.

I feel dirty and need to wash.

[Guest MattP]

Just reading some of the journalistic opinions.

Apparently in the 70s, the country was on its needs.

Labour had borrowed so much money we were drowning (no surprises there, where have I seen that since?).

We were referred to as the 'sick man of europe'

We had to do a 3 day week due to power shortages.

Rubbish piled up on the streets.

Thatcher came into power and got us going again, made us a serious power again.

I can't understand left wingers at all.. yes mining was hit but that was always going to happen in a competitive market anyway.

Because that's what a lot of left wingers actually want.

They would rather have everyone in the gutter than having some people rich.

[Alf Bentley]

She won 3 consecutive general elections so she can't have been that unpopular?

I'm too young to have an opinion, but my older family and the majority of my work collegues say she was a brilliant PM.

Unbelievable how much she polarises opinion.

Also, it's interesting that none of her laws have been repealed (even by the cvnt Blair) so even Labour must recognise that her policies on trade unions were beneficial for the country.

You've answered your own question twice over:

- "She polarises opinion": some loved what she did, others hated it

- "She won 3 consecutive elections....the cvnt Blair"....er, Blair also won 3 consecutive elections, a couple by landslides, yet he would also polarise opinion, though maybe not quite to the same extent, mainly because he's not such a major historical figure. Part (and admittedly only part) of the reason that she was so successful electorally was the mess that Labour were in - SDP split (later co-forming Lib Dems), open warfare between left and right within party etc.

She certainly set the agenda politically in a way that few other PMs have done in modern times (probably only Attlee post-war, Churchill during WW2, maybe the reformist Balfour/Lloyd George government pre-WW1). Blair/Brown did change some elements of Thatcherism (public spending on health/education, redistribution of tax revenues to the working poor, minimum wage, negotiated peace in Northern Ireland). But you're right in the main, Ireland apart, they were mainly reforming at the edges of what remained a Thatcherite project (still focusing on free markets with minimum state intervention, growing inequality etc.).

Labour in government was partly over-cautious, partly "Thatcherite with a safety-net" by conviction. I'd be surprised if they thought Thatcherite union policies were "beneficial for the country". More likely, they recognised that unions were either unpopular (partly deservedly, partly not) or not understood by most swing voters - and would be used as a stick to beat them with by opponents and press alike

Thatcher shifted the ballpark, never mind the goals - disastrously for the worse in my view; for the better in the view of right-wingers.

[I am Rod Hull]

Dead for less than a day and I`v heard shes already shut down 4 furnaces in hell....

[Webbo]

I just accidentally gave a rep point for this.

I feel dirty and need to wash.

Say you love Mrs T and I'll give it you back.

[l444ry]

I like the way Thatcher is presented by the left as an evil witch who was hated by the majority of the country when the facts are rather different:

- She was elected three times, on consistently higher turnouts and votes than we see today. In fact, in her final third term, she increased her total number of votes, which if she was as unpopular as suggested, would be unlikely.

- Very few of her policies have been reversed, despite her leaving office 23 years ago. You would expect that if the country hated her policies towards the unions, mines, privatisation, right to buy, etc, you would have expected these to be reversed and people voting for parties promising to repeal them. The chance of any party winning a general election on a manifesto of nationalisation, opening up the mines, etc, are slim to non-existent.

Her victories had a lot to do with a disgustingly biased media, the Falkland War and the Gang of Four.

[Charl91]

Not enjoying the "lets celebrate the death of an old woman" circle jerk over here. No matter the excuses people like to come up with, if she was *that* bad then she wouldn't have been elected 3 times.

Let's face it, almost no politicans are loved, because the decisions they make invariably leave someone, somewhere worse off.

[Deucalion]

I like the way Thatcher is presented by the left as an evil witch who was hated by the majority of the country when the facts are rather different:

- She was elected three times, on consistently higher turnouts and votes than we see today. In fact, in her final third term, she increased her total number of votes, which if she was as unpopular as suggested, would be unlikely.

- Very few of her policies have been reversed, despite her leaving office 23 years ago. You would expect that if the country hated her policies towards the unions, mines, privatisation, right to buy, etc, you would have expected these to be reversed and people voting for parties promising to repeal them. The chance of any party winning a general election on a manifesto of nationalisation, opening up the mines, etc, are slim to non-existent.

The damage is already done.

I defy anyone to say any service which was privatised is actually better now. Look at how many people Railtrack killed. What about energy prices? That's worked out for us hasn't it? Public transport is a joke and Royal Mail is going the same way. This is because private companies look after their share holder's before having any concern for the service they provide.

On the subject of coal, we now export coal from Poland and other places at great expense because it is too expensive to open up our own mines. The skills and communities which served the mines have been scattered too. Where is any government going to get the money to renationalise these industries? It just won't happen.

Thatcher sold the family jewels and in return, some working class families got to buy their council houses and own a Ford Escort. Well done them !! If any felt happy about this trade then they were too stupid to have the vote in the first place.

Anyway...on to the military, education and the NHS. Some people will be cheering and clapping to see Thatcher's progeny selling these to the highest bidder won't they?

For the record, Thatcher's defence cuts caused the Falklands War by removing Endeavour, a Royal Navy Arctic patrol ship which served the islands, and giving the Argentinians a green light to invade. Many of the aircraft and ships used to liberate the Falklands had to be rescued from the scrapheap to be used. If the Argentinians had waited six months, we wouldn't have been capable of retaking them.

Thatcher introduced greed, selfishness and contempt for your fellow man to the political lexicon of this country. If anyone doesn't believe this, then look at the deluded, arrogant and entitled opinions expressed by some on this forum. Before Thatcher, being an arsehole would've been frowned upon in this country.

If Hell exists, she deserves centre stage !!

[Deucalion]

Say you love Mrs T and I'll give it you back.

Her name is like acid in my throat.

[whoareyaaa]

The damage is already done.

I defy anyone to say any service which was privatised is actually better now. Look at how many people Railtrack killed. What about energy prices? That's worked out for us hasn't it? Public transport is a joke and Royal Mail is going the same way. This is because private companies look after their share holder's before having any concern for the service they provide.

On the subject of coal, we now export coal from Poland and other places at great expense because it is too expensive to open up our own mines. The skills and communities which served the mines have been scattered too. Where is any government going to get the money to renationalise these industries? It just won't happen.

Thatcher sold the family jewels and in return, some working class families got to buy their council houses and own a Ford Escort. Well done them !! If any felt happy about this trade then they were too stupid to have the vote in the first place.

Anyway...on to the military, education and the NHS. Some people will be cheering and clapping to see Thatcher's progeny selling these to the highest bidder won't they?

For the record, Thatcher's defence cuts caused the Falklands War by removing Endeavour, a Royal Navy Arctic patrol ship which served the islands, and giving the Argentinians a green light to invade. Many of the aircraft and ships used to liberate the Falklands had to be rescued from the scrapheap to be used. If the Argentinians had waited six months, we wouldn't have been capable of retaking them.

Thatcher introduced greed, selfishness and contempt for your fellow man to the political lexicon of this country. If anyone doesn't believe this, then look at the deluded, arrogant and entitled opinions expressed by some on this forum. Before Thatcher, being an arsehole would've been frowned upon in this country.

If Hell exists, she deserves centre stage !!

This is why a women should never run a country.

[l444ry]

The damage is already done.

I defy anyone to say any service which was privatised is actually better now. Look at how many people Railtrack killed. What about energy prices? That's worked out for us hasn't it? Public transport is a joke and Royal Mail is going the same way. This is because private companies look after their share holder's before having any concern for the service they provide.

On the subject of coal, we now export coal from Poland and other places at great expense because it is too expensive to open up our own mines. The skills and communities which served the mines have been scattered too. Where is any government going to get the money to renationalise these industries? It just won't happen.

Thatcher sold the family jewels and in return, some working class families got to buy their council houses and own a Ford Escort. Well done them !! If any felt happy about this trade then they were too stupid to have the vote in the first place.

Anyway...on to the military, education and the NHS. Some people will be cheering and clapping to see Thatcher's progeny selling these to the highest bidder won't they?

For the record, Thatcher's defence cuts caused the Falklands War by removing Endeavour, a Royal Navy Arctic patrol ship which served the islands, and giving the Argentinians a green light to invade. Many of the aircraft and ships used to liberate the Falklands had to be rescued from the scrapheap to be used. If the Argentinians had waited six months, we wouldn't have been capable of retaking them.

Thatcher introduced greed, selfishness and contempt for your fellow man to the political lexicon of this country. If anyone doesn't believe this, then look at the deluded, arrogant and entitled opinions expressed by some on this forum. Before Thatcher, being an arsehole would've been frowned upon in this country.

If Hell exists, she deserves centre stage !!

She's shut down the furnaces already mate!

[yorkie1999]

This is why a women should never run a country.

Or be a football referee!

[Ross-Kemp]

I'm going to celebrate the life of the Iron Lady by having a lovely chicken supper tonight.

[whoareyaaa]

Or be a football referee!

yeah and that. ridiculous

[I am Rod Hull]

I'm going to celebrate the life of the Iron Lady by having a lovely chicken supper tonight.

Chicken tasted better before she came to power, she fvcked that up too....

[Deucalion]

Another thing, you cannot pin overspending pre-Thatcher on the Labour party.

For one thing, though Labour were in power up until 1979, that decade was characterised by short term governments and coalitions. You cannot blame everything in the 70s on any particular party, not even the Tories.

Secondly, as Sir Alf Ramsey has pointed out, there was a social-democratic consensus between the parties following WWII. This was the work of the Attlee government elected directly following WWII. By nationalising many industries, ensuring jobs for returning troops and ensuring everyone had free healthcare, this Labour government shifted the ballpark in a similar way that Thatcher did in the 80s. It is very easy to criticise 'jobs for life' now but at the time, it was immensely popular and maybe even the right thing to do.

Thirdly, Callaghan was the British premier who introduced monetary policy, not Thatcher. Thatcher was just obsessed with squeezing money out of the system, regardless of whether it seemed to be working or not. (Seem familiar?) Her ideological application of monetary policy is what caused so much damage and distress in a similar way to the current economic policies of the coalition. Britain did become wealthy again in the 80s, but I would say this was despite Thatcher, not because of her.

I think it would be difficult to find many who would want a return to the 'jobs for life' ethic of the post-war days. Even the Labour Party has removed the requirement for full employment from it's constitution. The world changes and politics and economics have to change with it.

But...does anyone really want to see a return to the 19th Century? The Tories would have us believe they are modernisers, but the truth is, at every opportunity, they try to turn the clock back to a time when the rich could ruthlessly exploit the poor.

[breadandcheese]

The damage is already done.

I defy anyone to say any service which was privatised is actually better now. Look at how many people Railtrack killed. What about energy prices? That's worked out for us hasn't it? Public transport is a joke and Royal Mail is going the same way. This is because private companies look after their share holder's before having any concern for the service they provide.

Mid-Staff hospital killed more people than Railtrack, so a quick comparison to equate private as bad, public as good is cheap and poor.

Energy prices have risen around the world whether nationalised or private. I agree that the energy market is not working as well as it should, so needs to be looked at but nationalisation is not the answer.

On the subject of coal, we now export coal from Poland and other places at great expense because it is too expensive to open up our own mines. The skills and communities which served the mines have been scattered too. Where is any government going to get the money to renationalise these industries? It just won't happen.

So it's cheaper to import coal from Poland? In which case, why the complaint?

Thatcher sold the family jewels and in return, some working class families got to buy their council houses and own a Ford Escort. Well done them !! If any felt happy about this trade then they were too stupid to have the vote in the first place.

Again, no major party has reversed this policy or is campaigning to reverse it.

Anyway...on to the military, education and the NHS. Some people will be cheering and clapping to see Thatcher's progeny selling these to the highest bidder won't they?

Anybody rational will be looking at options from abroad and wondering why we spend so much more than comparable countries, yet achieve worse outcomes in both health and education. I'm not saying I advocate every policy by the current government, but to rule them out and decide that all privatisation is bad when it works in other countries is frankly ridiculous.

Thatcher introduced greed, selfishness and contempt for your fellow man to the political lexicon of this country. If anyone doesn't believe this, then look at the deluded, arrogant and entitled opinions expressed by some on this forum. Before Thatcher, being an arsehole would've been frowned upon in this country.

Really, there were few arseholes in the UK before 1979? There was no selfishness in the UK before 1979? No greed either? Rose tinted specs? Is this a bit like those people who proclaim the 1950's was a golden time when there was no crime and life was amazing?

[BoneDog]

Also, it's interesting that none of her laws have been repealed (even by the cvnt Blair) so even Labour must recognise that her policies on trade unions were beneficial for the country.

Blair's not what you could call 'Labour' though. Is there even a real Labour party around nowadays?

Perhaps those policies on unions are beneficial to the power structure and the bosses of big business and that could be why they've not been repealed.

I was young but I remember being sent to the shop for candles, my old mam making tea and toast on the coal fire, tasted delicious, it was like camping indoors

My Mum used to do that aswell in the early/mid 80's. The toast was nicer than grilled toast. Not sure if this was to do with the power cuts or because we'd ran out of electric though, can't remember much about it apart from the taste of the toast!

[breadandcheese]

Her victories had a lot to do with a disgustingly biased media, the Falkland War and the Gang of Four.

Whilst the Falkland War helped boost her image, I think it's excuse searching, by those in the Labour party who misjudged the mood of the nation, in the same way that Conservatives made cheap excuses after 1997 when they were being trounced.

[ADK]

Another thing, you cannot pin overspending pre-Thatcher on the Labour party.

For one thing, though Labour were in power up until 1979, that decade was characterised by short term governments and coalitions. You cannot blame everything in the 70s on any particular party, not even the Tories.

Secondly, as Sir Alf Ramsey has pointed out, there was a social-democratic consensus between the parties following WWII. This was the work of the Attlee government elected directly following WWII. By nationalising many industries, ensuring jobs for returning troops and ensuring everyone had free healthcare, this Labour government shifted the ballpark in a similar way that Thatcher did in the 80s. It is very easy to criticise 'jobs for life' now but at the time, it was immensely popular and maybe even the right thing to do.

Thirdly, Callaghan was the British premier who introduced monetary policy, not Thatcher. Thatcher was just obsessed with squeezing money out of the system, regardless of whether it seemed to be working or not. (Seem familiar?) Her ideological application of monetary policy is what caused so much damage and distress in a similar way to the current economic policies of the coalition. Britain did become wealthy again in the 80s, but I would say this was despite Thatcher, not because of her.

I think it would be difficult to find many who would want a return to the 'jobs for life' ethic of the post-war days. Even the Labour Party has removed the requirement for full employment from it's constitution. The world changes and politics and economics have to change with it.

But...does anyone really want to see a return to the 19th Century? The Tories would have us believe they are modernisers, but the truth is, at every opportunity, they try to turn the clock back to a time when the rich could ruthlessly exploit the poor.

There's no real point trying to argue rationally with people over this, you might aswell be trying to convince a Forest supporter to support Leicester. And then there is still the further problem of the current Labour party being equally awful.

[Zingari]

I was young and good looking in 1979, then Thatcher came to power and gradually I went downhill, until I became a fat old fart.

Damn that woman’s hide.

[Daggers]

You haven't got a clue mate

You fvcking spanner

[J.Lisemore]

The problem today isn't lack of jobs, it's that the current generation coming out of schools think they are too good to work a normal job just to get by. The amount of people i've heard in the past 5 years say 'I'm not working in a warehouse, i have a degree!' is bordering on the ridiculous.

I definitely agree with this, obviously there's nothing wrong with having ambition but a lot of people will turn down hard physical work to be an unrealistic pencil pusher. Each to their own I suppose.

[ousefox]

Apparently there won't be a minutes silence at the game tonight. Shame, would have loved to have heard the boos