Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
WhatsHisName

The Plantagenet Alliance Vs Leicester re Richard III

By WhatsHisName, in General Chat

Recommended Posts

ADK

ADK

Posted
Posted

Isn't that half the problem? People presuming where he should be buried?

 

Well that is where all the monarchs are buried, either in Windsor or Westminster.

 

His wife his supposed to be at Westminster too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ADK

ADK

Posted
Posted

From Wiki:

 

Anne died on 16 March 1485, probably of tuberculosis, at Westminster. The day she died, there was an eclipse, which some took to be an omen of Richard's fall from heavenly grace. She was buried in Westminster Abbey, in an unmarked grave to the right of the High Altar, next to the door to the Confessor's Chapel. Richard is said to have wept at her funeral. Nevertheless, rumours circulated that Richard had poisoned her in order to marry his niece Elizabeth of York.[6]

There was no memorial to her until 1960, when a bronze tablet was erected on a wall near her grave by the Richard III Society.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spudulike

Spudulike

Posted
Posted

I didn't know that.

 

That's a big factor for me. 

Game changer.

 

Ann Neville's grave is long lost. No one is sure of it's location in Westminster Abbey. As already pointed out, Westminster Abbey is full. I think the last Monarch buried there was over 300 years ago. The Queen doesn't want Richard III at Windsor, which is probably inappropriate given that it's full of Tudors !!

 

I believe that had Richard been victorious at Bosworth and reigned for a longer period then he would no doubt have expected to buried at Windsor alongside his brother, Edward IV. However, that didn't happen and he was laid to rest by the order of the King of England, Henry VII. Some time later, Henry VII paid for a tomb to mark the resting place of Richard III in the Leicester Greyfriars, again affirming his wish that he should remain there. Unfortunately that was lost during the reformation.

 

Richard III's remaining relatives (real ones!) knew that he was in Leicester right up to the reformation and chose not to move his body. It is beyond ridiculous some 528 years later that a small group of self styled relatives are claiming they knew what he wanted. Here's a quote from Professor Mark Ormrod, of the Department of History, York University ...

 

"Since the documentation is insecure, some historians have jumped to the conclusion that the college was also intended to be a royal chantry and that the King wished to buried in the Minster. There is, however, no direct evidence that Richard III had any definite plan for his own burial, at York or otherwise. It would certainly have been unusual in 1485 for a king of England to be buried in York. The only medieval royal tomb in the Minster’s collection is that of William, son of Edward III, who died just weeks after his birth at Hatfield in Yorkshire."

 

Which ever way you look at it, York Minster is wrong. Richard III was buried by a medieval King in Leicester, who are we, 528 years later to try to rewrite history ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The People's Hero

The People's Hero

Posted
Posted

You're probably right. It's a shame really that he was ever 'exhumed' as it were in the first place. I'm no believer in the afterlife etc.. and they are just bones afterall, I just don't feel comfortable with this argument when we was laid to rest many hundreds of years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Well that is where all the monarchs are buried, either in Windsor or Westminster.

 

His wife his supposed to be at Westminster too.

 

 

From Wiki:

 

Anne died on 16 March 1485, probably of tuberculosis, at Westminster. The day she died, there was an eclipse, which some took to be an omen of Richard's fall from heavenly grace. She was buried in Westminster Abbey, in an unmarked grave to the right of the High Altar, next to the door to the Confessor's Chapel. Richard is said to have wept at her funeral. Nevertheless, rumours circulated that Richard had poisoned her in order to marry his niece Elizabeth of York.[6]

There was no memorial to her until 1960, when a bronze tablet was erected on a wall near her grave by the Richard III Society.

 

I'm not sure quoting wikipedia is ever a particularly strong argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted

Their are 5million people in Yorkshire and the only people from outside Yorkshire or Leicester who'll sign a petition are people who want to change the status quo. If it comes down to a petition we're bound to lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lcfc81

lcfc81

Posted
Posted

Their are 5million people in Yorkshire and the only people from outside Yorkshire or Leicester who'll sign a petition are people who want to change the status quo. If it comes down to a petition we're bound to lose.

Still better to go down fighting surely (if it comes to it!)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rincewind

Rincewind

Posted
Posted

Richard III: Petition or tradition?

By David Scullion
Thursday 14th February 2013 | Web Exclusive | 19 comments

Richard III is a controversial figure and it’s not only car-parking charges that he has to answer for. When his brother Edward IV died in 1483, he ruthlessly arrested or executed anyone that got in his way, until he was safely sat on the throne. And it seems that the former king is not without followers; the Richard III society is fiercely protective of his memory and countless others feel he has been unfairly represented, especially in his depiction by Shakespeare.

The recent discovery of his body has reignited debate over the monarch, but it seems the popular consensus is that he comes back home to York. A recent e-petition calling for Richard III to be re-interred here has received over 18,000 signatures; compared to only 7,000 for Leicester. Richard III has many connections with the city of York, and despite his birth in Northamptonshire he did rule the North from the ancient seat of York for a considerable part of his life. The family symbol, the white rose, is still ubiquitous across the city and the university, featuring on city architecture and used by university sports teams to represent York.

The petition to have him at York is backed by Welcome to Yorkshire, York Council, and the owners of the Richard III shrine in Monk Bar. Some historians claim that it was always his intention to be buried at York, pointing to his plans for a college of priests built in the Minster to say masses for him and his family. Quoted on the BBC website, Charles Brunner, a descendent of Richard’s sister, said “We repatriate those who give their lives in battle, so why is this different?†It’s tempting to agree with Mr Brunner, who is obviously still attached to his 452-year-old relative, but burying Richard in the Minster would be unhistorical for a number of reasons.

Although having great connections with the city, this wouldn’t have been enough to qualify for burial as his death occurred within a 500-year stretching tradition of burying monarchs at Westminster Abbey. The University of York’s Mark Ormrod addresses the idea that Richard wanted to be buried at York surmising that historians have made too great an historical leap in equating the building project with a desire to be buried here. He concludes that there is no direct evidence that Richard planned to be buried anywhere.

Looking deeper into the historical context, burial at York would have been bad propaganda. Richard was a usurper who had done away with his two young nephews in order to grasp the throne. He constantly fought off illegitimacy claims, compounding the rumours that he had killed them. It seems highly unlikely that such a king would want to deviate in any way from the traditional burial at Westminster. Richard’s heroic charge at Bosworth to personally defeat Henry Tudor was death or glory, he was willing to accept death in battle just as his father had done, but was prepared to accept the consequences if his cavalry charge failed.

Had Richard died peacefully, he would likely have been laid in Westminster Abbey. As it was, he ended up near Bosworth, and in which case Leicester Cathedral is the next best thing. Unfortunately for the people of York the body of Richard would lie uneasy in the Minster; he’d probably have preferred the car park.

 

 

The petition in the market may be the same one. Found another but it was closed because there was already a petition. One sig on it

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vlad the Fox

Vlad the Fox

Posted
Posted

For the judge to consider the e petition in making this deision was completely wrong in the first place. Leicester has the licences for his burial, there was no need for us to try and force a debate by reaching the 100,000 for his burial as we had him. To consider York on the strength of this petition is a joke, they quickly got up to 25000 with the initial flurry and then ground to a halt crawling to 26000 over the space of about 3 or 4 months though I'm sure the latest news has seen a spike in their numbers, I've not looked as I'd given up as it wasn't moving. Though less than a quarter of those signatures are from York.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RobHawk

RobHawk

Posted
Posted

My old man is a bit of a  history buff so i mentioned to him how i was getting into the history of Richard III and the york - Leicester debate.

 

He mentioned that the women Richard was set to marry had previously lived in Groby with her previous Husband! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted

My old man is a bit of a  history buff so i mentioned to him how i was getting into the history of Richard III and the york - Leicester debate.

 

He mentioned that the women Richard was set to marry had previously lived in Groby with her previous Husband! 

That was his brother King Edward surely?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spudulike

Spudulike

Posted
Posted

That was his brother King Edward surely?

Elizabeth Woodville and first husband. This is the 'White Queen' recently featured in the TV series that was historically bollox. Just noticed the e petition for a Leicester burial is trending. Seems the facts might be coming to light at last although the Mercury are still printing letters from the ignorant. Make sure that everyone you know signs the petition.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lcfc81

lcfc81

Posted
Posted

Elizabeth Woodville and first husband. This is the 'White Queen' recently featured in the TV series that was historically bollox. Just noticed the e petition for a Leicester burial is trending. Seems the facts might be coming to light at last although the Mercury are still printing letters from the ignorant. Make sure that everyone you know signs the petition.

I will. Time for another text barrage to my friends. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lcfc81

lcfc81

Posted
Posted

http://m.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/story.html?aid=19734440

The mercury have got involved now. Said something about getting sports teams involved. Hopefully lcfc will be in with this.

If you haven't signed get signing! Also text, email, tweet, facebook everyone you know!

Impressive effort so far, its gone up from 8000 to 12500 with limited publicity.

The link to the petition is here,

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/39708

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...