The Death of Music

[DennisNedry]

If you're going to quibble, everyone is talented. I'm talented, you're talented. We've all got talents.

 

Green Day write bland, middle-of-the-road, power-chord punk-pop with little imagination or creativity. They hardly inspired a new sound, they're hardly all blistering musicians or ground-breaking lyricists. I'm going to see them (albeit at a festival) tomorrow night, I don't loathe them, but like I said you need to appreciate them for what they are because trying to convince people they're some exceptional collection of savants is just daft.

 

As for what they play, if you don't think Dookie is pop there's very little helping you. It's perhaps unfair to compare them to bands of older generations but compare Basket Case and When I Come Around to what their contemporaries were producing at the same time? Pennywise, Rancid, even Anti-Flag, Bad Religion. Or, shit, the entire Boston Hardcore scene.

 

"Do you have the time, to listen to me whine?" Come on, it's as pop as guitar music gets. They basically paved the way for Busted and McFly, via MCR and the Rasmus.

 

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this mate

Admittedly I am a bit of a fanboy but I think you're not giving them enough credit for the influence they had in the mid 90s in reviving the punk scene.

You picked Basket Case and When I come around because they are the popiest songs on that album. Would you say 'When masturbations lost it's fun, you're ****ing lonely' is what you expect to hear in a pop song?

[The Doctor]

SLF are good, so are other older bands like the Clash, the Ramones etc. Sex pistols were ok too.

I wouldn't call what was on Dookie or Insomniac pop at all, although after that they have softened a lot since then.

 

Curious as to why do you say that they are not talented, or any less so than any other band?

 

Sex Pistols are greatly overrated tbh.

 

Now I like Dookie, but it is on the pop side of that sort of music, Look at what came out around the same time:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQ_7s0Fg48

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB-RssL8Ix0

 

 

No arguing that Greenday are on the softer side.

[fleckneymike]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this mate

Admittedly I am a bit of a fanboy but I think you're not giving them enough credit for the influence they had in the mid 90s in reviving the punk scene.

You picked Basket Case and When I come around because they are the popiest songs on that album. Would you say 'When masturbations lost it's fun, you're ****ing lonely' is what you expect to hear in a pop song?

 

Well this was a pop song so yes

 

http://youtu.be/gEmJ-VWPDM4

[MooseBreath]

 It’s not the same as the number ones of twenty or even ten years ago that are remembered now and identifiable after the first note is aired.

 

 

10yrs ago

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8iBm783bKo

 

 

20yrs ago

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kls5lqTW0wY

 

 

Both long forgotten and absolutely dreadful. Chart music is, has always, and will always be crap.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Moosey says something of worth (I know, I know) Chart music is just lowest common denominator stuff, same as many of the biggest films, the most popular TV, any branch of the arts. Joe and Jo Public don't like different, they want beige and they want it all over. A challenge? That's for athletes! A mental challenge? Who do you think I am? Stephen "Gigantobrain" Hawkings?

 

Give the public a song call Blah in the key of meh and they'll love it. Create a rich tapestry of sound with thought provoking, emotive lyrics and you cease to exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are some great pops songs though - even nowadays.

[fleckneymike]

Moosey says something of worth (I know, I know) Chart music is just lowest common denominator stuff, same as many of the biggest films, the most popular TV, any branch of the arts. Joe and Jo Public don't like different, they want beige and they want it all over. A challenge? That's for athletes! A mental challenge? Who do you think I am? Stephen "Gigantobrain" Hawkings?

 

Give the public a song call Blah in the key of meh and they'll love it. Create a rich tapestry of sound with thought provoking, emotive lyrics and you cease to exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are some great pops songs though - even nowadays.

 

Pop is much maligned. Some of the greatest songs are pop songs, heck even Cobain loved Pop and penned this bad boy for bleach

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Pop is much maligned. Some of the greatest songs are pop songs, heck even Cobain loved Pop and penned this bad boy for bleach

 

 

The point would be though, did it chart? Not a sniff in the UK. My point is there is great pop music, it's just not the kind of thing that Cowell and Co. want you listening to, so it doesn't get promoted and you rarely hear it on radio. That Radio 6 is DAB only (and therefore can only be played in very few cars and probably fewer works vans) means a lot of good music gets missed out. Even Radio 1 and 2 play some gems of an evening, but that's when everyone's out or watching TV or other media. Daytime radio is as crap as daytime TV.

[Fox42]

To be honest, I was a massive chart fan five years ago and then I stopped listening to it. Every now and then I dip into the mainstream world and its total garbage. It's much different than what it was back in 2008/09/10, music was so simple, nice beats and uplifting music. Now, it's riddled with Dubstep and Drum and Bass going on about twerking and other stupid shit. It's the music and stars of now that the kids of today look up to and label them as their "idols". I believe it's what they hear on the radio now that's turning this generation into a radioactive landslide.

[purpleronnie]

To be honest, I was a massive chart fan five years ago and then I stopped listening to it. Every now and then I dip into the mainstream world and its total garbage. It's much different than what it was back in 2008/09/10, music was so simple, nice beats and uplifting music. Now, it's riddled with Dubstep and Drum and Bass going on about twerking and other stupid shit. It's the music and stars of now that the kids of today look up to and label them as their "idols". I believe it's what they hear on the radio now that's turning this generation into a radioactive landslide.

Ahhh 2010 those were the days.

[21st Century Fox]

I had a tutor at uni who'd worked in the music industry and would always remind people when they complained about the state of music that if it weren't for the masses that lap up all the generic chart fodder, the record labels wouldn't be willing to take a punt on financing the more niche, acts.

 

There probably is correlation between times of financial strain and output of more niche, innovative work by record labels. As much as the idea of men in suits price tagging up artistry makes me uncomfortable, we seem to be at a tipping point where record labels could just continue to distribute the acts they "manufacture" to sell well and the more avant-garde acts get pushed onto the internet and self-distributed but then that could leave the worrying scenario where acts would purely make records to promote their live acts and we would miss out of those sorts of records that can never be reproduced live.

 

It's not like this is a new problem anyway, we've had manufactured pop forced down our throats since the 60's.

[Bellend Sebastian]

It's not like this is a new problem anyway, we've had manufactured pop forced down our throats since the 60's.

 

Completely true, and I don't think it's any more mercenary now than it was then.

 

I can remember it being suggested music was dying about 25 years ago - bearing in mind that was the 80s, you could have been forgiven for thinking that.

 

I don't think you can blame the X Factor etc for dumbing things down - it's not as if those lapping up One Direction CDs were buying Fall albums before, any more than Stock Aitken and Waterman took market share away from erm, The Fall either.  People liked the Bay City Rollers and Five Star, and what a load of old shite all that was.

 

The quality of 'pop' seems relatively constant - it's 90 per cent disposable crap for kids with the occasional gem that has wider appeal, and I'm struggling to remember a time when that wasn't the case.  Look at chart rundowns from the 60s and 70s and you will find plenty of stuff that has been completely forgotten because it was completely forgettable

[fleckneymike]

The point would be though, did it chart? Not a sniff in the UK. My point is there is great pop music, it's just not the kind of thing that Cowell and Co. want you listening to, so it doesn't get promoted and you rarely hear it on radio. That Radio 6 is DAB only (and therefore can only be played in very few cars and probably fewer works vans) means a lot of good music gets missed out. Even Radio 1 and 2 play some gems of an evening, but that's when everyone's out or watching TV or other media. Daytime radio is as crap as daytime TV.

 

that was just an example of how influential pop is. Cobain loved pop music but was afraid to make it. 

[sphericalfox]

that was just an example of how influential pop is. Cobain loved pop music but was afraid to make it. 

 

I don't agree with this last statement. It could be argued that 'In Utero' was not the album and/or music that Cobain wanted to make, and the pressure from the execs to create music that fed the baying masses needed to be toned down and homogenised potentially added to his mental problems, and eventually his early demise, especially when the rawness of his early work clearly was some sort of outlet for his problems. The same could be said about pop culture and the need for execs to rob underground genres of their true ideals and message, and water it down to a point that they no longer can exist in its original form (conspiracy theorists beware!). This goes from everything from rock, punk, metal, grunge, to dance, and electronica. You just need to see the fads over the generations, and the real origins of these emerging classes of music or sub-genres and how the developed, and why people were drawn to them in their original form in the first place.

[Finnegan]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this mate

Admittedly I am a bit of a fanboy but I think you're not giving them enough credit for the influence they had in the mid 90s in reviving the punk scene.

You picked Basket Case and When I come around because they are the popiest songs on that album. Would you say 'When masturbations lost it's fun, you're ****ing lonely' is what you expect to hear in a pop song?

 

Masturbation references in a "punk" song? Yes, that's exactly what I'd expect from pop-punk. At least New Found Glory showed a little bit of tongue in cheek self awareness this weekend with a huge backdrop reading "Pop Punk's Not Dead." I chuckled.

 

Green Day were excellent, by the way, full of energy and Billy Joel works a crowd very well. But it was still a pop show, you just need to stop taking that as an insult, someone has to ween children off Beiber and on to Guitar Music and they do it well. And I'm sorry but they didn't revive the mid 90s punk scene, that's just ridiculous. They were one of a number of similar bands (NOFX, The Offspring, Blink, etc) that brought punk to little skateboard kids by making it more accessible (pop-y) but the scene had never died in it's essence. Like I said, look up Boston's hardcore scene or the California lot like Bad Religion, Social Distortion, even the likes of early AFI and Racid, there's always been a scene. 

 

 

As for the death of music? Always a stupid statement but I think I witnessed the heavy decline of the UK's festival scene this weekend. Interesting going this year, having been (02, 03, 04, 05) ten years ago and being able to contrast the two. When NiN are playing to an almost empty mainstage and Bastille are bursting out of a ridiculously over-stretched Radio 1 stage you know we've got problems!!

[fleckneymike]

I don't agree with this last statement. It could be argued that 'In Utero' was not the album and/or music that Cobain wanted to make, and the pressure from the execs to create music that fed the baying masses needed to be toned down and homogenised potentially added to his mental problems, and eventually his early demise, especially when the rawness of his early work clearly was some sort of outlet for his problems. The same could be said about pop culture and the need for execs to rob underground genres of their true ideals and message, and water it down to a point that they no longer can exist in its original form (conspiracy theorists beware!). This goes from everything from rock, punk, metal, grunge, to dance, and electronica. You just need to see the fads over the generations, and the real origins of these emerging classes of music or sub-genres and how the developed, and why people were drawn to them in their original form in the first place.

 

Around the time he was making Bleach he was massively into REM but he didn't feel like he could go all pop on that.

[fleckneymike]

 

As for the death of music? Always a stupid statement but I think I witnessed the heavy decline of the UK's festival scene this weekend. Interesting going this year, having been (02, 03, 04, 05) ten years ago and being able to contrast the two. When NiN are playing to an almost empty mainstage and Bastille are bursting out of a ridiculously over-stretched Radio 1 stage you know we've got problems!!

 

This is going to sound incredibly pretentious but I think it's the sort of people who are going to festivals which are the problem. I think more V festival kids are going to Reading and Leeds and dramatically altering the line ups. 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Ahhh 2010 those were the days.

 

Genuinely spat my Sunny D out at this. RADIOACTIVE LANDSLIDE.

 

As for the death of music? Always a stupid statement but I think I witnessed the heavy decline of the UK's festival scene this weekend. Interesting going this year, having been (02, 03, 04, 05) ten years ago and being able to contrast the two. When NiN are playing to an almost empty mainstage and Bastille are bursting out of a ridiculously over-stretched Radio 1 stage you know we've got problems!!

 

I think more and more people are turning their nose up at R and L and heading abroad (though obviously, I've not been since '05 so this is mainly guesswork), leaving the festival to be predominantly a stomping ground for annoying brats (again, guesswork). Twats with Joey Essex haircuts that'll leave their wristband on for years after they've been just so they can say "I've been to a festival", you know the sort. The ticket price puts me off a little when BBK in Bilbao is £70 (admittedly the line-up has less depth but you're on Bilbao's doorstep!) for three days of music and a weeks worth of camping in decent surroundings near a beautiful city.

 

Heard this news about people clearing off before NIN and it's a bit sickening really, Bastille are ****ing toilet and by all accounts NIN's new live show is as outstanding as per. I can't get my head around it, you're missing genius for a ****ing twat with big hair. Love that Reznor basically trolled a large portion of teeny festival goers by not playing Hurt though, fantastic.

 

This is going to sound incredibly pretentious but I think it's the sort of people who are going to festivals which are the problem. I think more V festival kids are going to Reading and Leeds and dramatically altering the line ups. 

 

This is very true, only had to look at the line-up here in contrast to shy of a decade ago to see a huge shift in what's being booked at R and L. It's giving the festival a little more variety which I don't discourage, but Baauer? Give me a ****ing break. Variety is only good if it's done right.

[Finnegan]

Agree with both of the above, yes.

Would have liked to have seen Hurt live, though.

[ScouseFox]

There are a lot of twats at R and L like. Just gotta avoid things like Skrillex and Bring Me The Horizon though and you'll have a boss time. 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I was surprised considering the crowd coupled with it being arguably their most famous "hit" along with Closer, be more understandable if it was omitted from a NIN show. Least they'll be touring next year, can't wait for that.

 

He slagged off Biffy Clyro, in all. The man is my hero.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Musics got crap since the fall of bands like the verve, the seahorsrs, ocean colour scene and kula shaker.

It also doesn't help how todays generation have no idea of the original concept of R n B

[Fox92]

Musics got crap since the fall of bands like the verve, the seahorsrs, ocean colour scene and kula shaker.

It also doesn't help how todays generation have no idea of the original concept of R n B

 

Yeah, I'm a fan of Ocean Colour Scene. Always thought they were slightly underrated.

[The Year Of The Fox]

All the bands I mentioned in that post are mate.

[The Doctor]

Musics got crap since the fall of bands like the verve, the seahorsrs, ocean colour scene and kula shaker.

It also doesn't help how todays generation have no idea of the original concept of R n B 

 

Oi! I may apparently look the wrong side of 30, but I am of todays generation. General chart gubbins and the wotsit-dipped twats that listen to it may not have a clue, but there are plenty of the younger generation who know r'n'b. 

[DennisNedry]

Green Day were always awful.

 

 

Green Day were excellent, by the way, full of energy and Billy Joel works a crowd very well. But it was still a pop show, you just need to stop taking that as an insult, someone has to ween children off Beiber and on to Guitar Music and they do it well. And I'm sorry but they didn't revive the mid 90s punk scene, that's just ridiculous. They were one of a number of similar bands (NOFX, The Offspring, Blink, etc) that brought punk to little skateboard kids by making it more accessible (pop-y) but the scene had never died in it's essence. Like I said, look up Boston's hardcore scene or the California lot like Bad Religion, Social Distortion, even the likes of early AFI and Racid, there's always been a scene. 

 

You've changed your tune a bit Finners

But no, I do agree with what you are saying. I've started looking a bit deeper into punk now although Green Day remain my favourites. I guess that's what you mean when  you say Green Day are a gateway.

Just out of interest, what songs did Green Day play?