RizLCFC Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 I know this is probably a forbidden opinion on here, but I get the feeling the club is finding it harder than they expected to get the right players in for the prices and wages they want to pay. I know it's only early July, blah blah blah, but Nigel usually likes to get important business done quickly and he is obviously trying to do stuff, it just isn't happening. Therefore, we are either going to have to start the season with a weaker team than Pearson would like or adjust what we are prepared to fork out. For me, the latter is the least bad option. Couldn't agree more!
Robin JD Popley Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 I know this is probably a forbidden opinion on here, but I get the feeling the club is finding it harder than they expected to get the right players in for the prices and wages they want to pay. I know it's only early July, blah blah blah, but Nigel usually likes to get important business done quickly and he is obviously trying to do stuff, it just isn't happening. Therefore, we are either going to have to start the season with a weaker team than Pearson would like or adjust what we are prepared to fork out. For me, the latter is the least bad option. Excellent post - I also think that John Percy's declaration in the Telegraph regarding our spend being in the region of £10m was also not necessarily what I would have imagined seeing. I think that we won't spend much more than £15m but as others on here say, unless you can pick up the top Bosmans out there, you are more than likely going to have to dig deep for the calibre of player that will take us from an excellent Championship side into a formidable Premiership club again. I am not saying, let's do a QPR, but the reality I think may be creeping in that players like Campbell think they are far more valuable than they truly are and that is because of an over saturated market pandering egos. I think our stance is credible, but, as we have all said - if we need to go whole hog on the right players I believe now is the time to start doing this.
Stadt Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Saying this club has signed player x for y price is irrelevant because I very much doubt Pearson cares what other clubs are spending.
Robin JD Popley Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Saying this club has signed player x for y price is irrelevant because I very much doubt Pearson cares what other clubs are spending. Oh I agree Wookie, but we have found with Ulloa that clubs will over inflate the price of a player worth probably £3-4m less than his probable market value set by their current club, just because we are in the Premiership. And he isn't the same league as some of the others we have been rumoured to look at (yet), so it's just that reality I'm referring to. Just look at McCormack... and that's in the Championship!
Spudulike Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Oh I agree Wookie, but we have found with Ulloa that clubs will over inflate the price of a player worth probably £3-4m less than his probable market value set by their current club, just because we are in the Premiership. And he isn't the same league as some of the others we have been rumoured to look at (yet), so it's just that reality I'm referring to. Just look at McCormack... and that's in the Championship! Still don't believe that Fulham really have paid £11m for McCormack. Sounds like someone's guess that has become fact. All of these figures being quoted sound like fantasy....I'm sure they are stoked up just to provide interest in the game whilst summer drags on. The reality is probably quite different and something most of us are not party to.
Stadt Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Oh I agree Wookie, but we have found with Ulloa that clubs will over inflate the price of a player worth probably £3-4m less than his probable market value set by their current club, just because we are in the Premiership. And he isn't the same league as some of the others we have been rumoured to look at (yet), so it's just that reality I'm referring to. Just look at McCormack... and that's in the Championship! Pearson is stubborn so I can't see him paying whatever Brighton want because it's inline with the current market, he'll look elsewhere if Brighton are asking for too much.However I reckon we won't bid for a while and as it gets closer to the season Brighton will realise nobody will pay their lofty valuation and it'll become apparent Ulloa wants out meaning we'll pay less.
Robin JD Popley Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Still don't believe that Fulham really have paid £11m for McCormack. Sounds like someone's guess that has become fact. All of these figures being quoted sound like fantasy....I'm sure they are stoked up just to provide interest in the game whilst summer drags on. The reality is probably quite different and something most of us are not party to. As you see in my previous post, I didn't quote the price mate (so I agree with the sentiment re: £11m) but the point stands about overinflated prices. Some of the Brighton fans tweets on social media sincerely believe Ulloa is worth £10m but if he is worth £10m then what does that makes James & Drinkwater? Goes to show how much the Premiership has altered since we were last here...
cc_star Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 I know this is probably a forbidden opinion on here, but I get the feeling the club is finding it harder than they expected to get the right players in for the prices and wages they want to pay. I know it's only early July, blah blah blah, but Nigel usually likes to get important business done quickly and he is obviously trying to do stuff, it just isn't happening. Therefore, we are either going to have to start the season with a weaker team than Pearson would like or adjust what we are prepared to fork out. For me, the latter is the least bad option. It's a crossroads moment for the decision makers at the club. Once we've paid over the odds, all clubs will hold fast to a ridiculous valuation knowing that we'll eventually pay it. It really could be a slippery slope However, the alternative is possibly even less palatable, we certainly don't want to be going into that tough first season without players the manager has identified he needs to do the job required of him
Monsell1976 Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Hopefully Nigel thinks differently to this. I think he's capable of getting the most out of the players he's got and 'tweaking ' a few areas. many people want to buy 'top club' fringe players because they think that that means they will be better than anything we can source. Thankfully Nigel doesn't seem to do that. Harry Rednap does though. And it's not been great for him. Also. Who did fill you with confidence before we bought them? Beckford? Mills? Fernandez? From comments on here about the Brighton fans saying he's lazy and has a questionable attitude, just the player we need, you mention beckford, seems some comparisons there to me.
NathanC93 Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 BHAFC @OfficialBHAFC #BHAFC team v Partick: Ankergren; Calderon, Greer, Maksimenko, Chicksen; Toko, Agustien, Forster-Caskey, March, Buckley; Mackail-Smith. No Ulloa in starting 11 day, or in the squad.
st albans fox Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 From comments on here about the Brighton fans saying he's lazy and has a questionable attitude, just the player we need, you mention beckford, seems some comparisons there to me. there are varied opinions from brighton fans. you would have struggled to find a lcfc fan prepared to back beckfords attitude full stop. there are no comparisons imo. i cannot understand why people arent comfortable to trust the management of the club on this. show me how many bad buys pearson has made over the past two seasons ? when did he last waste money on a player? we would get our money back on wood if we sold him. NP is paid a lot of money to make decisions. he has a thorough support staff on vetting/selecting potential signings which includes their character. this isnt a 'late in the window knee jerk decision' (like beckford was). why not back our manager to continue to make the right calls?
FoxyPalace.com Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Most think he's gone on the Brighton site, http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?304834-Ulloa-not-even-on-the-bench-today!!-Has-he-gone
Monsell1976 Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 there are varied opinions from brighton fans. you would have struggled to find a lcfc fan prepared to back beckfords attitude full stop. there are no comparisons imo. i cannot understand why people arent comfortable to trust the management of the club on this. show me how many bad buys pearson has made over the past two seasons ? when did he last waste money on a player? we would get our money back on wood if we sold him. NP is paid a lot of money to make decisions. he has a thorough support staff on vetting/selecting potential signings which includes their character. this isnt a 'late in the window knee jerk decision' (like beckford was). why not back our manager to continue to make the right calls?I am backing the manager, I am just not comfortable with the club being made to pay over the odds for a player who may or may not work out.I'm guessing he will sign a 3 to 4 contract, with that sort of fee he will probably demand 30 odd grand a week, and if we get relegated, and have to cut cost to adhere to ffp, and had to move him on can you see us getting our money back.
Finnaldo Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 I am backing the manager, I am just not comfortable with the club being made to pay over the odds for a player who may or may not work out. With respect, Beckford had performed decently at Everton before coming, and Mills very well in Reading's promotion winning side. Whether a player performs well or not can never be guaranteed, unless you're talking about a top quality World Class player.
LeicesterBran Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 He isn't my preference off a big target man altough we can do better and get a cheaper target man. At the end of the day if we do sign him it wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing.
Stadt Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 He isn't my preference off a big target man altough we can do better and get a cheaper target man. At the end of the day if we do sign him it wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing.
BHAFC Braders Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 BHAFC @OfficialBHAFC #BHAFC team v Partick: Ankergren; Calderon, Greer, Maksimenko, Chicksen; Toko, Agustien, Forster-Caskey, March, Buckley; Mackail-Smith. No Ulloa in starting 11 day, or in the squad. He's in the stand watching though it seems (as is Lualua ) hoping Sami is just seeing what the rest of the squad is capable of (I'll come back and talk about the other points when the games finished )
Fox92 Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 look elsewhere now please nige, don't want to be spending 7 million plus on a player who scored 14 and assisted 3 times last season, got to be better options about the market. norwich just signed a player that scored 22 for 3m If you're referring to Grabban, they are different players. Why don't people understand this? We've got Grabban-type players in Nugent and Vardy. Ulloa is a target man, he does a job which Grabban or Campbell, or a player like that, cannot do. It's not as easy as saying "got to be better options" because target men are pretty rare and you'll not find a decent one for less than £5million... For example, Hull paid £7million for Jelavic.
Grewks Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 He's in the stand watching though it seems (as is Lualua ) hoping Sami is just seeing what the rest of the squad is capable of (I'll come back and talk about the other points when the games finished ) Well if he is just seeing what the 'rest of the squad is capable of' then it looks like we will be welcoming Ulloa to the club earlier than expected. He will need the cash to improve the side, unless mid-table is the aim.
st albans fox Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 given we will need to be capable of varying our tactics far more this season than last, a target man who can hold up play is essential. wood might be that man but from what i've seen thats doubtful. when we play one up front, we either go vardy to stretch teams with the ball over the top or down the channels or a target man to hold play up and link in with the midfield breaking forward. it has clearly been decided that Ulloa could be the target man we require. i would say that technical ability will be paramount for this role at prem level and i assume he has that. he wont be required to sprint (which is something he doesnt seem to have a pedigree for ). if we dont secure him soon, i expect we will find someone on the continent to take this role. i suspect we have decided on ulloa because he has already settled well in this country and therefore one of the big unknowns when bringing someone in from abroad is not an issue.
Monsell1976 Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 With respect, Beckford had performed decently at Everton before coming, and Mills very well in Reading's promotion winning side. Whether a player performs well or not can never be guaranteed, unless you're talking about a top quality World Class player.Agree that it's a gamble wether a player performs or not, that's my whole point, mills and beckford were expensive failures, but if we pay between 8 to10 million (which I don't think he's worth half that), it's the most expensive gamble in the clubs history, does that not concern people.
Deucalion Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Agree that it's a gamble wether a player performs or not, that's my whole point, mills and beckford were expensive failures, but if we pay between 8 to10 million (which I don't think he's worth half that), it's the most expensive gamble in the clubs history, does that not concern people. Of course it's a concern, but, as someone who has watched LCFC try to succeed on the cheap so many times, it would be nice to think it will be different this time.
Monsell1976 Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 Of course it's a concern, but, as someone who has watched LCFC try to succeed on the cheap so many times, it would be nice to think it will be different this time.I have also watched city build teams with nothing, that's probably why I'm so uncomfortable with spending that much over the odds for an average player, because let's be honest that's what he is, if he wasn't he wouldn't be at Brighton, he would already be playing for better teams at his age.Pearson see's something in him, so have to go along with it, still don't think Pearson will spend the 10 million they want, if it happens I hope it works out for both of them, because with that fee, the pressure will be on from word go.
BHAFC Braders Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 As good as my word: Well if he is just seeing what the 'rest of the squad is capable of' then it looks like we will be welcoming Ulloa to the club earlier than expected. He will need the cash to improve the side, unless mid-table is the aim. The finance side isn't as worrying as people are making out - we're choosing to be careful to get in line with the FFP side but have money to rebuild it seems , no necessary need to sell Don't worry bud I am calm it's a joke to think Brighton think he's worth but £10m let him stay at Brighton we don't need him !! All down to the value of trying to replace him I guess - given beyond the fee how much time and money we spent trying to get him and build him up if that's what the club reckons then fair enough. Ulloa was out for a couple of months last season, and he carried on scoring when he returned so it is pretty likely he'd have improved his tally if the injury hadn't have happened. Exactly , and it did take a while for him to come back to being the player he is capable of ( for a few games he looked worried about going into challenges) Pearson is stubborn so I can't see him paying whatever Brighton want because it's inline with the current market, he'll look elsewhere if Brighton are asking for too much.However I reckon we won't bid for a while and as it gets closer to the season Brighton will realise nobody will pay their lofty valuation and it'll become apparent Ulloa wants out meaning we'll pay less. This has been debated as to whether he IS actually unhappy here , a lot has been made that he looked uninterested at Lewes last Saturday but after the game was chatting and joking , obviously every player wants to play at the top level - it goes without saying , but whether it's more then that is pure speculation at the moment. From comments on here about the Brighton fans saying he's lazy and has a questionable attitude, just the player we need, you mention beckford, seems some comparisons there to me. That makes him sound really bad , there are points where you question if he wants it enough but that could be said of a huge number of strikers - he's not helped at times by some shocking passing mind!
Finnaldo Posted 12 July 2014 Posted 12 July 2014 That makes him sound really bad , there are points where you question if he wants it enough but that could be said of a huge number of strikers - he's not helped at times by some shocking passing mind! So do you reckon if he had the right passes and support, e.g. Drinkwater/Vardy, he could get a few goals in the Prem?
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