Hodgson Out?

[Guest ttfn]

Because he's not good enough not because of the influx of foreigners.

Unless you want to lower the standard of the Premeir League by forcing every single side to play five English man, which as a Leicester fan I wouldn't have a problem with. But there's not a hope in hell it'd improve our national side, in fact I doubt it'd be long before people were piping up claiming that the deteriorating standard of the league isn't preparing our footballers for international football properly.

All that would mean is Jagielka would be playing for Man City instead of Everton,

[Manwell Pablo]

All that would mean is Jagielka would be playing for Man City instead of Everton,

 

Correct. Wouldn't make one iota of difference, bar maybe the fact that these players wouldn't be used to playing against quality like Suarez week in week out, it would arguably make us worse.

[Guest ttfn]

Correct. Wouldn't make one iota of difference, bar maybe the fact that these players wouldn't be used to playing against quality like Suarez week in week out, it would arguably make us worse.

I don't think it would make any difference at the Suarez level - one thing which might be good is that it would mean that there were fewer Wilson Palacioses and more Rohan Ince or Henri Lansburys playing in the top flight.

Unfortunately it's all tied up with the insane prices that are put on young English players and any quotas would Surely make it worse.

[Manwell Pablo]

I don't think it would make any difference at the Suarez level - one thing which might be good is that it would mean that there were fewer Wilson Palacioses and more Rohan Ince or Henri Lansburys playing in the top flight.

Unfortunately it's all tied up with the insane prices that are put on young English players and any quotas would Surely make it worse.

 

Maybe not but you know the minute we changed the rules in the Prem and the England national side remained shite, or god forbid got even worse, there would be people claiming it.

 

I'm not being funny but if Henry Lansbury doesn't play in the Premeir League because an average over seas player like WIlson Palaciose do you really think a few top flight games is going to put him in a position to compete with Steven Gerrard or Jordan Henderson in the England setup.

[Guest ttfn]

Maybe not but you know the minute we changed the rules in the Prem and the England national side remained shite, or god forbid got even worse, there would be people claiming it.

I'm not being funny but if Henry Lansbury doesn't play in the Premeir League because an average over seas player like WIlson Palaciose do you really think a few top flight games is going to put him in a position to compete with Steven Gerrard or Jordan Henderson in the England setup.

No I agree with you.

I suppose the thinking is that if 0 Henri Lansburys are getting a proper chance now and 20 Henri Lansburys get that chance in the future then maybe one or them will turn out to be good after all.

[Manwell Pablo]

No I agree with you.

I suppose the thinking is that if 0 Henri Lansburys are getting a proper chance now and 20 Henri Lansburys get that chance in the future then maybe one or them will turn out to be good after all.

 

I understand that argument, and I know it's one your just putting up for discussions sake as opposed to one you actually agree with, but I disagree with it completely.

 

The Championship is one of the better leagues in Europe despite the fact it's a second tier league, the better English players by hook or crook do get out of it and play regular Prem football, and those that don't clearly aren't pulling up enough trees in the league below to get a look in, so why do we think there all of sudden these players are going to challenge lads who despite the amount of foreign competition are still holding down places in top Prem teams. I'd perhaps give it a bit more credit if we were having to name a lot of Championship players on even the stand by list but we're not. Nearly every player named in the 30 man squad was at a top half Premier League club playing regularly. 

[Guest Col city fan]

Because he's not good enough not because of the influx of foreigners.

Unless you want to lower the standard of the Premeir League by forcing every single side to play five English man, which as a Leicester fan I wouldn't have a problem with. But there's not a hope in hell it'd improve our national side, in fact I doubt it'd be long before people were piping up claiming that the deteriorating standard of the league isn't preparing our footballers for international football properly.

I just don't agree. I think it's ALL about money and greed.

Johnson went to Man City as the next great young English winger. That's not in dispute? However, he started to get dropped, made more sub appearances.. started to show signs that he might not be as great as the player Man City signed...so what did they do? They simply went out and bought someone else. And then someone else. Now, Johnson becomes expendable.. there is no position for him, no role for him...he ultimately pisses about in the reserves.

Scott Sinclair too.. had a couple of great seasons with Swansea, went to City on the fringes of the England set-up, and has not been seen (relatively) since.

Why these players have suffered (and gone downhill in terms of playing time and confidence) is due to Man City's sweetie shop mentality of buying players and then binning them if they aren't considered good enough. Simply put, in football development terms, Johnson and Sinclair made the wrong moves going to Man City. Financially, the right moves.

Now, if Man City were effectively 'forced' to play Adam Johnson or Scott Sinclair (in terms of five/six home grown players must start every Premiership game) then you may have seen those players really hit their potentials.

I agree, it may not have made the Premier League as exciting (who knows?), but it may have benefitted our International side which currently is shambolic.

Finally, you keep dismissing any ideas for why we, as a football nation, fook it up over and over again.

What's your take?

[Guest Col city fan]

Because he's not good enough not because of the influx of foreigners.

Unless you want to lower the standard of the Premeir League by forcing every single side to play five English man, which as a Leicester fan I wouldn't have a problem with. But there's not a hope in hell it'd improve our national side, in fact I doubt it'd be long before people were piping up claiming that the deteriorating standard of the league isn't preparing our footballers for international football properly.

I'd genuinely be interested in your opinion on why the England team, despite money, managers, training facilities, nice hotels, good food, planning, traininh camps etc etc etc is STILL one big fook-up?

There must be some reason(s)

[orangecity23]

You can laff all you like but he couldn't have done any worse than Woy.

Two things I think Redknapp would have done:

- persuaded Terry to come back and play

- taken Ashley Cole.

Both would have improved us.

IMO.

I don't think this is anytime to be defending Hodgson at the expense of any alternative. He (and the team) have fooked up good and proper.

Seems what you think Redknapp would do and what Harry says are 2 different things.

 

Redknapp: "Roy worked his socks off with the group. The atmosphere seemed good and he picked the same group of players that we would all have picked. We keep going through good managers but for some reason at England we don't get results."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27963053

[Guest Col city fan]

Seems what you think Redknapp would do and what Harry says are 2 different things.

Redknapp: "Roy worked his socks off with the group. The atmosphere seemed good and he picked the same group of players that we would all have picked. We keep going through good managers but for some reason at England we don't get results."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27963053

What do you expect him to say? That Hodgson is a tosser and he should have taken Cole?

I suspect Redknapp is simply toeing the party line, as most of them do.

[Manwell Pablo]

I just don't agree. I think it's ALL about money and greed.

Johnson went to Man City as the next great young English winger. That's not in dispute? However, he started to get dropped, made more sub appearances.. started to show signs that he might not be as great as the player Man City signed...so what did they do? They simply went out and bought someone else. And then someone else. Now, Johnson becomes expendable.. there is no position for him, no role for him...he ultimately pisses about in the reserves.

Scott Sinclair too.. had a couple of great seasons with Swansea, went to City on the fringes of the England set-up, and has not been seen (relatively) since.

Why these players have suffered (and gone downhill in terms of playing time and confidence) is due to Man City's sweetie shop mentality of buying players and then binning them if they aren't considered good enough. Simply put, in football development terms, Johnson and Sinclair made the wrong moves going to Man City. Financially, the right moves.

Now, if Man City were effectively 'forced' to play Adam Johnson or Scott Sinclair (in terms of five/six home grown players must start every Premiership game) then you may have seen those players really hit their potentials.

I agree, it may not have made the Premier League as exciting (who knows?), but it may have benefitted our International side which currently is shambolic.

Finally, you keep dismissing any ideas for why we, as a football nation, fook it up over and over again.

What's your take?

 

You look into the career of either of them you can see City have nothing to do with stiffling either. Adam Johnson was at Manchester City for 2 year making 73 appearances in the league alone,how is that hardly playing. When it became apparent he wasn't good enough he was sold to  Sunderland where he's made another 70 appearances in 2 years, so he actually got more Premier League minutes playing for City than Sunderland, totally debunking your theory there.

 

Scott Sinclair, maybe, could of benefited from more game time, in recent years. If he'd rather sit at City because he's on a nice little wage that he wouldn't get anywhere else that's fault and no one else's, but he doesn't get a game there because he's not good enough, he was already fairly developed when he went to Manchester City at 23 with circa 150 league appearances to his name, and he didn't have an England cap to his name nor did he look like getting one. He certainly might be better than he is now if he was playing, but would he be good enough to replace the lads who are deemed good enough to play in top sides and therefore play for Engand, like Sterling, Walcott, Oxlade Chamberlain or Milner,unequivocally no.

 

As I've got to go and do something, I'll get back to you on the ins and outs of the slight problems in English football, but in 2010 we rolled out a first 11 containing Jonn Terry, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Ashley Cole, and Wayne Rooney, all Champions League winners past or future, with Prem clubs. how many teams and that tournament could say they had five Champions league winners, and all from domestic clubs and how can you claim we've got problems producing top talent when it's taking on Europe's finest and winning. The talent is there, it just doesn't perform. 

 

although to say we "fuk it up time and time again" is just an over reaction, yes we've gone out,  but with narrow defeats in games we arguably deserved to win against decent sides, and that is one of the problems in the country, woefully under estimating the teams we play and the rate their catching up. If Brazil had some of the bad luck we've had and we'd had the good luck they had they could be sat where we are now, do you think they'd be questioning everything to do with their infrastructure.....no.

[orangecity23]

What do you expect him to say? That Hodgson is a tosser and he should have taken Cole?

I suspect Redknapp is simply toeing the party line, as most of them do.

Well, after the first game, Redknapp was in all the papers saying Hodgson had things wrong, and should play Rooney down the middle. In fact, good ol' Harry has being taking thinly veiled media swipes at Hodgson ever since he got the job, so the idea that Redknapp is going to 'toe the party line' is a little hard to swallow. Now, if you were to suggest that Harry was being polite because he didn't want to upset the FA because he's about to start politicking to try and get the manager's job again, then maybe that would be a bit more believable.

[Corky]

What do you expect him to say? That Hodgson is a tosser and he should have taken Cole?

I suspect Redknapp is simply toeing the party line, as most of them do.

 

Why would he have to call him a tosser? He'd just say he should've taken x, y and z instead.

 

Redknapp is hardly one to toe the party line, chances are he would've picked similar (Hodgson only really left Cole behind that was contentious).

[Dr The Singh]

I think Hodgson should go, I think tactically he was outsmarted in both games, I would like to see the Costa Rica boss become the next manager, a manager that makes his team play without fear

[Manwell Pablo]

Right then problems with the infrastructure of English football. Although I reiterate, the problems are no where near as bad as some make out, every country has it's issues and the progress other countries have made should not be ignored.

 

Media 

 

Or media are an absolute disgrace when it comes to the national side, I didn't agree with the first part of Chris Waddles rant on the radio the other day but the part about the media he had absloutley spot on.

 

They A) Never fail to whip the nation into a state of hysteria no matter how good we are or what opposition we've been handed, there were so many cringe worthy comments in the build up to the World Cup regarding the lack of quality in both Italy and Uruguay's side and how we should be taking points from both games with ease, Robbie Savages "with have nothing to fear" and Mark Lawrensons "not a single Italian player would get in our starting 11" in particular. They made me wonder how these people have jobs in sports media.

 

B) Unneeded pressure being applied to individuals, "Wayne Rooney has to perform" "Ross Barkley is the most exciting young talent we've produced since Paul Gascoigne" "This is Steven Gerrards last chance to win something" yadda yadda yadda. It's not needed, how about we've been handed a shit draw with two teams above us in the FIFA rankings and we're playing in South America, let's hope they give it their best go, they're going to be tough games, lets get behind the lads, but oh no. England has to expect. People wonder why our players sometimes don't turn up or in particular why we can never win a penalty shoot out, the pressure applied by the English media and fans is unmatched throughout the world and given the fact that we aren't historically a nation that is good when the pressure is on in a number of different sporting arenas the media should be doing more to allow the players a bit more slack. It made me cringe that Rooney and Hart felt they had to apologies to the nation for not getting us through.

 

C) The influences applied to every single manager by the English media sometimes makes me think they may as well be picking the team, we're straight on every decision a manager makes asking "why" or "what should actually be done" the man in the hot seat just isn't allowed to be his own man with all of the outside influences. 

 

Scouting and Development of Players

 

Too much emphasis is put on strength and pace and whilst it may work in certain Premier League sides you can't do well without a technically good football side in International football. The Physicality of players is focused on far too much in this country while technique plays second fiddle. The crop of wide players this country has produced,a whole generation, tells the story with the Ox,Townsend, Young, Sinclair, Zaha, Walcott, Kyle Walker, Glen Johnson, Aaron Lennon, Micah Richards and among others even Sterling although he seems to be improving all having the same problems in lack of consistency in being able to put a ball in or finish a decent chance. They might score the occasional eye opener but if they had any consistancy in their technique like some of the top forward players in better international sides do they'd do it more often.

 

Too many lads are being released for being too small, not strong enough, or too slow. I still maintain had Lionel Messi been English he'd never of got close to being the best in the world due to the fact he'd get fewer opportunities or his confidence would of been knocked after being told he was too small on vastly more occasions than he was any way.

 

The lack of work applied to player's weaker points is also a major pitfall, players are coached to get better at what they're good at as opposed to working on what their not. How Leighton Baines hasn't been taught to defend better is beyond me as he's every other major asset to be a world class full back. A bit more composure from Sturridge and he'd score even more than he does now.

 

Money on wages and Transfer fee's being over inflated for English players.

 

A problem that would undoubtedly be increased ten fold should top tier clubs be forced to play English players. English players are made to believe they are better than they are and quite often don't care about their failings at international level due to their status and wage packed. It is also the major stumbling block as to why more players don't play top level football, because they cost so ****ing much, and it's also a reason why we don't have more players playing over sea's like a lot of successful squads. Who's to say our decent youngsters couldn't go elsewhere if over sea's are coming over here, one thing prevents it. Price Tag.

 

Exit Strategies of professional clubs being appalling

 

And being quite into local football I know quite a lot about this, and we're (Leicester) as bad as this as anyone for doing this, but when talking about top level football I'd guess it'd only really apply to top Prem Clubs, although I'll give Man U their dues on this one their actually a shining example of how it should be done. Too many young players are binned off and told to find their own way in football/life as opposed to be given help finding another club to play for, Chelsea and City are the worst for this. Getting released from a club is a knock to a young man's confidence and at such a young age can see them go back to their home town act like billy big bollocks and be happy banging in 30 goals a season at Step 4-7 instead of having the mental toughness to bounce back improve and try and prove the club that let them go wrong. If more was done, to try and find these lads a suitable second club where they could resuscitate their career you'd see more players like Danny Drinkwater and Matty James making a second go of things and in some rare cases, being good enough to challenge in the England set up.

 

I could go through a couple more but this post is long enough as it is. I've prone to typos so I apologise as tbh I can't be arsed to proof read this.

[CosbehFox]

Excellent summary Manwell.

Missing the line about the very few qualified coaches we have in comparison to other European countries. Also coaching is inverted; the coaches who coached the most developed players are paid the best, the coaches who develop kids are paid the worst despite it being when you'd want the best coaching.

[CosbehFox]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/22/harry-redknapp-roy-hodgson-steven-gerrard-england

Redknapp running his mouth off....

[AKCJ]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/22/harry-redknapp-roy-hodgson-steven-gerrard-england

Redknapp running his mouth off....

 

 

Nige couldn't have got promoted with two bigger clowns if he tried.

 

 

Redknapp needs to do the English game a favour and retire.

[foxes_rule1978]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/22/harry-redknapp-roy-hodgson-steven-gerrard-england

Redknapp running his mouth off....

Oh Redknapp, stop mouthing off to get some attention...

[Samilktray]

What a vile little man Redknapp is.

[Bryn]

Nige couldn't have got promoted with two bigger clowns if he tried.

 

 

Redknapp needs to do the English game a favour and retire.

 

Christ I hope he never stops working, if he stops managing he'll be in the media even more.

[Bluefoxtim]

Lampard to captain England against Costa Rica - what's the point in what's surely going to be his last game?

[Guest Col city fan]

Oh Redknapp, stop mouthing off to get some attention...

You have no idea whether Redknapp is simply saying it how it was?

I don't have a clue. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

This World Cup has finally resulted in my loss of interest in the England side.

I think they are overpaid underachievers and the game against Costa Rica is pointless. I almost hope we lose and I would have never have said that about an England side. I think I'd rather Costa Rica celebrate another good performance than we win.

[Manwell Pablo]

Lampard to captain England against Costa Rica - what's the point in what's surely going to be his last game?

 

I don't agree with it but surely you've answered your own question there.

[Manwell Pablo]

You have no idea whether Redknapp is simply saying it how it was?

I don't have a clue. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

This World Cup has finally resulted in my loss of interest in the England side.

I think they are overpaid underachievers and the game against Costa Rica is pointless. I almost hope we lose and I would have never have said that about an England side. I think I'd rather Costa Rica celebrate another good performance than we win.

 

No reply to me then.

 

Not shocked.