Steven Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Just a bit of 'friendly banter' according to the LMA: Eurosport : LMA: Mackay texts were 'friendly banter' - http://m.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2012-2013/lma-mackay-texts-were-friendly-banter_sto4368024/story.shtml Richard Bevan and the LMA are just a bunch of fvcking cvnts. Just banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/redknapp-defends-mackay--he-hasnt-raped-anyone-and-he-is-not-a-paedophile-9685399.html Fvck off 'Arry you racist, sexist and homophobic cvnt. Just banter like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 No one here has any mates with whom they share a few woefully inappropriate jokes then? The humour is in the inappropriateness, the innocence is in the fact that it's between friends and not supposed to be broadcast to the world. Moody and Mackay have been mates for decades and obviously share a few jokes. I think it's a bit sad that society is unwilling to see the obvious distinction between intentionally distasteful jokes and actual prejudice here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 I'd love to have been a fly in the wall in that LMA meeting when they were wording the 'banter' statement. How thick are these people ffs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 No one here has any mates with whom they share a few woefully inappropriate jokes then? The humour is in the inappropriateness, the innocence is in the fact that it's between friends and not supposed to be broadcast to the world. Moody and Mackay have been mates for decades and obviously share a few jokes. I think it's a bit sad that society is unwilling to see the obvious distinction between intentionally distasteful jokes and actual prejudice here.. Jokes, your full of shit mate!! Why in the world would you feel the need to mention the colour of players, what would be so funny about that, unless you had an issue with so few whites being on a list!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 "Banter, you say?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 No one here has any mates with whom they share a few woefully inappropriate jokes then? The humour is in the inappropriateness, the innocence is in the fact that it's between friends and not supposed to be broadcast to the world. Moody and Mackay have been mates for decades and obviously share a few jokes. I think it's a bit sad that society is unwilling to see the obvious distinction between intentionally distasteful jokes and actual prejudice here.. edgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 No one here has any mates with whom they share a few woefully inappropriate jokes then? The humour is in the inappropriateness, the innocence is in the fact that it's between friends and not supposed to be broadcast to the world. Moody and Mackay have been mates for decades and obviously share a few jokes. I think it's a bit sad that society is unwilling to see the obvious distinction between intentionally distasteful jokes and actual prejudice here.. This is probably the wrong case to make this point with, but I see where you're coming from. In terms of the LMA statement - it seems to me the wording essentially came from Mackay didn't it? Weren't they essentially representing him given he's part of that association? I'm also wondering what jurisdiction the LMA would have in this sort of matter - they seem a pretty toothless organisation in all honesty, so I'm not surprised they 'sat on' the report for 3 months. Surely this sort of matter is something for the FA to deal with, but only after any legal proceedings had finished - the LMA would then be probably responsible for providing advice and guidance to MacKay for any disciplinary hearing. You have to remember, this is leaked information - it wasn't supposed to have been made public, so the LMA / FA may not have been able to take any definitive action up to this point in case it effected the legal side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFilter Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 No one here has any mates with whom they share a few woefully inappropriate jokes then? The humour is in the inappropriateness, the innocence is in the fact that it's between friends and not supposed to be broadcast to the world. Moody and Mackay have been mates for decades and obviously share a few jokes. I think it's a bit sad that society is unwilling to see the obvious distinction between intentionally distasteful jokes and actual prejudice here..People who make 'jokes' like that wouldn't be my mates. I'm guessing 'some of your best friends are black'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Predictable reaction really. The fact is that some people have made successful mainstream careers out of inappropriate jokes, so evidently society is not as against them as they appear to suddenly become in situations like this. When these kind of jokes are made in private between understanding friends it is hardly crime of the century, is it? Maybe we'd be better off if people didn't find humour in such things, but they do. I didn't even know the word "chinky" was considered racist to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFilter Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Predictable reaction really. The fact is that some people have made successful mainstream careers out of inappropriate jokes, so evidently society is not as against them as they appear to suddenly become in situations like this. When these kind of jokes are made in private between understanding friends it is hardly crime of the century, is it? Maybe we'd be better off if people didn't find humour in such things, but they do. I didn't even know the word "chinky" was considered racist to be honest.Happily the UK is moving on, slowly, from finding racism, even 'casual' racism, acceptable in any context. And, really? You didn't know that the term 'chinky' is offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 I hear similar remarks to this all the time, im not so sure they are that bad. Some are worse than others. If said in a public sense yes but between two close friends....... i agree with moose, distasteful banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Happily the UK is moving on, slowly, from finding racism, even 'casual' racism, acceptable in any context. And, really? You didn't know that the term 'chinky' is offensive? Why is chinky offensive? How is it derogatory? Are we not becoming a tad oversensitive now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFilter Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 I'm staggered that people don't know that chinky is considered offensive. This is a long, detailed and nuanced subject and I'm not about to change narrow minds so all I'll say is that it's about whether the person a term refers to finds it offensive, not whether someone who's never experienced racial prejudice finds it offensive. If a person of Chinese stock has experienced contemptuous use of the word chinky, then it's likely they'll find it offensive. The reality is that anyone from an ethnic minority experiences racism depressingly regularly, and dismissing the contempt they face as banter is nearly as offensive itself. This is why there's a storm about this. Not because of oversensitive 'chinks' or 'pakis', and not because it's 'political correctness gone mad'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Happily the UK is moving on, slowly, from finding racism, even 'casual' racism, acceptable in any context. And, really? You didn't know that the term 'chinky' is offensive? Well exactly, actual racism is extremely unacceptable (and rightly so of course), that's why it's so inappropriate to pretend to be racist, and that's why people find it funny. Ignore the racism/homophobia/misogyny or whatever, it could be anything, if it's totally inappropriate then it becomes funny to play that role. See Frankie Boyle for example, I personally don't find the guy that funny, but he has sold out shows time and again all over the country where he turns up and makes inappropriate jokes. How is this any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorsetboy Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 but if malkay and his mate were chinese and were being racist towards a white owner not a dickie bird would have been said i bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFilter Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Well exactly, actual racism is extremely unacceptable (and rightly so of course), that's why it's so inappropriate to pretend to be racist, and that's why people find it funny. Ignore the racism/homophobia/misogyny or whatever, it could be anything, if it's totally inappropriate then it becomes funny to play that role. See Frankie Boyle for example, I personally don't find the guy that funny, but he has sold out shows time and again all over the country where he turns up and makes inappropriate jokes. How is this any different?Frankie Boyle isn't racist. His jokes take the piss out of racists, Alf Garnett style. The difference is that one tends to hold a mirror up to racism, the other is just nasty, small-minded actual racism when people aren't putting a 'PC' face on. Comedians who are actually racist, Roy Chubby Brown, etc, are a fast dying breed, thankfully, and are largely viewed with all the scorn they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 I'm staggered that people don't know that chinky is considered offensive. This is a long, detailed and nuanced subject and I'm not about to change narrow minds so all I'll say is that it's about whether the person a term refers to finds it offensive, not whether someone who's never experienced racial prejudice finds it offensive. If a person of Chinese stock has experienced contemptuous use of the word chinky, then it's likely they'll find it offensive. The reality is that anyone from an ethnic minority experiences racism depressingly regularly, and dismissing the contempt they face as banter is nearly as offensive itself. This is why there's a storm about this. Not because of oversensitive 'chinks' or 'pakis', and not because it's 'political correctness gone mad'. Do Chinese people find "chinky" offensive then? Have there been surveys done that I'm not aware of? My sister in law is half Chinese, I'll ask her when I see her tomorrow. To be honest I can't remember very many times where I've heard someone say "chinky" except in the context of a Chinese takeaway where it seems almost accepted terminology. This is honestly the first time I've ever heard of it being deemed racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 I completely understand what MB is saying but the racism, sexism and homophobia was all performed in a professional context whereby they were talking about who they were going to employ at the club and who they were going to deal with. For all we know there may be a wider context here behind these messages but it certainly appears that the discussion of these prospective employees in racist terms ("not many white faces") may well constitute actual discriminatory racism as opposed to the use of racist language for ironic or shock value. I would stress, however, that I'd be mortified to be called a sexist on the back of what I considered a private message to an old friend and colleague telling them to "man up" (which I'm sure is the sort of thing I have sent in the past). There's a difference between having sympathy for Mackay and empathy for the fact that he's basically had his life ruined by some texts he sent which may or may not reveal his true character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 22 August 2014 Author Share Posted 22 August 2014 Why is chinky offensive? How is it derogatory? Are we not becoming a tad oversensitive now? Why does this thread remind me of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 In terms of comedy I don't see the difference between a Bernard Manning type and someone like Sacha Baron Cohen or Ricky Gervais who makes the same joke but with a nod and a wink to the audience with a "look how clever and ironic I am" slant. If it's a performance then it's up to the audience how they interpret it and whether they find it acceptable. The difference here is it's not a performance, it's a manager of a multinational and multi-ethnic football team and business who obviously has utter contempt for some of his players and I guess a large proportion of their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFilter Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Do Chinese people find "chinky" offensive then? Have there been surveys done that I'm not aware of? My sister in law is half Chinese, I'll ask her when I see her tomorrow. To be honest I can't remember very many times where I've heard someone say "chinky" except in the context of a Chinese takeaway where it seems almost accepted terminology. This is honestly the first time I've ever heard of it being deemed racist.You're looking at it from your perspective, still. Try and imagine being Jewish or black and reading those texts having experienced a lifetime of prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowlattsFox Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 Were the texts sent from a personal or work phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 In terms of comedy I don't see the difference between a Bernard Manning type and someone like Sacha Baron Cohen or Ricky Gervais who makes the same joke but with a nod and a wink to the audience with a "look how clever and ironic I am" slant. If it's a performance then it's up to the audience how they interpret it and whether they find it acceptable. The difference here is it's not a performance, it's a manager of a multinational and multi-ethnic football team and business who obviously has utter contempt for some of his players and I guess a large proportion of their fans. I think judging somebody's entire personality on the basis of a few texts is really dangerous territory. It might well be revealing, but I'd suggest that there is plenty of evidence which suggests that Mackay doesn't have "contempt" for other races. The texts can be interpreted as discriminatory racism which reveal the true content of that person's beliefs; they can also be interpreted as tasteless comments made between friends which in the wrong hands and taken out of the context of that relationship make them look like racists. This is not in any way to excuse what they did. The language used is abhorrent and shouldn't be present in our society. But in conversation between friends, context is everything. If that context involves them using racist language then more fool them - they're tossers for doing so - but it's certainly not a matter for the general public unless they are actually racially discriminating against people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 22 August 2014 Share Posted 22 August 2014 I think judging somebody's entire personality on the basis of a few texts is really dangerous territory. It might well be revealing, but I'd suggest that there is plenty of evidence which suggests that Mackay doesn't have "contempt" for other races. The texts can be interpreted as discriminatory racism which reveal the true content of that person's beliefs; they can also be interpreted as tasteless comments made between friends which in the wrong hands and taken out of the context of that relationship make them look like racists. This is not in any way to excuse what they did. The language used is abhorrent and shouldn't be present in our society. But in conversation between friends, context is everything. If that context involves them using racist language then more fool them - they're tossers for doing so - but it's certainly not a matter for the general public unless they are actually racially discriminating against people. He's talking about potential employees in a derogatory way based on the colour of their skin. Not sure how that is anything other than contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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