Babylon Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Oh here we go again... Pearson never improved players, Pearson never brought through kids blah blah blah. There is me thinking we'd got from league one to premier league safety regularly playing several of our own kids. Whilst also bringing in plenty of young kids from other clubs and them improving themselves and the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattGamble92 Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Anyone who needs an example of Gradel's attitude only needs to look at his reaction to being sent off for Leeds. The only regret is that we didn't get more money for him, because we have had a huge amount of success since him. I don't see how any one player could have improved what we have done since that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverybodyDannsNow Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I remember Gradel getting sent off whilst playing for Leeds, and he was arguing the decision that much that he would simply not leave the pitch. The Leeds fans turned on him and starting chanting 'off, off, off'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I remember Gradel getting sent off whilst playing for Leeds, and he was arguing the decision that much that he would simply not leave the pitch. The Leeds fans turned on him and starting chanting 'off, off, off'. Nearly cost them promotion getting sent off in their last game I think. Pearson actually stated he wanted to keep him, but that Gradel wanted to go and he wouldn't keep someone who didn't want to stay here. Pearson has never been shy in trusting young players, see Schlupp, King, Hobbs, Drinkwater, James etc. It's not hard to understand why flair players often looked like they got a rough ride, he demanded that they put in a shift, defended, and played for the team as well as using their flair in the right areas and the right times. People can discuss the rights and wrongs of that, but his record speaks for itself. I'm sure players like Mahrez will become a better all round player for having that drummed in to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I've always acknowledged the young players Pearson has included but I wouldn't say King (introduced pre-Pearson) progressed greatly until Cambiasso's arrival and his return to the first team in a changed system and approach. My life, Pearson even left him out of the side for quite a while when we were constantly losing, bottom of the table and in dire need of someone to help Cambiasso in retaining possession. Schlupp's been included consistently and that's been to the good but I still don't think we're improving him enough or getting the very best from him. His shooting and his final ball both need detailed work yet to make him outstanding. As for Moore, I don't think he's evolved noticably in the first team except during his first few months and I have my doubts that he'll change that perception. For all that he's a capable defender he's up against some tough and mostly reliable competition. He needs games to improve further but I don't see him as first choice in the current set-up. Those three have been established for quite a while and Chilwell enjoyed a taste but, no, I don't think Pearson brought many through...or enough although that might be more a criticism of those we recruited than the final development of those retained beyond Academy level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Anyone who needs an example of Gradel's attitude only needs to look at his reaction to being sent off for Leeds. The only regret is that we didn't get more money for him, because we have had a huge amount of success since him. I don't see how any one player could have improved what we have done since that period. Nothing in Gradel's background of success in our Academy would suggest that Gradel couldn't have been part of our success in the period you mentioned. It is pure hypothesis. He and King were part of an excellent and highly successful Academy side. As for "improving" what we achieved, it is so easy to sound smug but we were a hair's breadth from being relegated last season at one stage, we had two massive spells of unsuccessful football - one in the Premiership and the other in The Championship - so there was always room for improvement. That's not to deny our successes or being damned pleased with them. But there was lots of room for improvement and any number of individuals might have made a difference. Even now I'd say various people seem to have improved our squad, Okazaki quite dramatically and I fully expect more improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I remember Gradel getting sent off whilst playing for Leeds, and he was arguing the decision that much that he would simply not leave the pitch. The Leeds fans turned on him and starting chanting 'off, off, off'. Young kid gets frustrated at letting his team down - big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Gradels problem was having to look after his younger brother in France after their mother died, he didn't have a bad attitude but he did have far too much responsibility for a young man trying to progress his football career, NP probably got tired of having to fit his selections and training regime around a talented prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Nearly cost them promotion getting sent off in their last game I think. Pearson actually stated he wanted to keep him, but that Gradel wanted to go and he wouldn't keep someone who didn't want to stay here. Pearson has never been shy in trusting young players, see Schlupp, King, Hobbs, Drinkwater, James etc. It's not hard to understand why flair players often looked like they got a rough ride, he demanded that they put in a shift, defended, and played for the team as well as using their flair in the right areas and the right times. People can discuss the rights and wrongs of that, but his record speaks for itself. I'm sure players like Mahrez will become a better all round player for having that drummed in to them. I didn't say Pearson never included young players I said he didn't introduce many from our own ranks and his record of developing and improving those players wasn't especially good. King, Schlupp and Moore I've spoken about and with King having been in the team before Pearson's arrival that leaves Schlupp and Moore as the only first team squad members to have emerged from the Academy thanks to Pearson. It's not a lot given the timespan. As for Hobbs - I didn't rate him at all and he certainly didn't improve here while. James needed to be more controlled when shooting but made no progress in this respect and Drinkwater had an fairly forgettable first season in the Premiership and has thankfully re-emerged looking his best again since Ranieri's arrival....and perhaps the experience of getting used to the pace of The Premiership You're entirely right that modern football demands an all-for-one, one-for-all work ethic but it was only latterly that Pearson started consistently applying that to almost the entire team rather than just the forwards, hence our success in the closing months of our survival season under the new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyJones Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Never understood the Gradel love. He looked decent for us and has gone on to have a decent career. But it's not like we've missed him or struggled without him. Good luck to him at Bournemouth but I honest don't think he'd have been close to being in the first team these past three seasons and would likely have been sold anyway. Have to agree with the above. I never thought of Gradel as a goal scoring winger. He did ok in the third tier of English football, but didn't show the required consistency or to my mind the required application the following season. I am really pleased things have worked out for him, but never thought he was good enough for Leicester City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Quite. Bang average. He would not get in our current squad. Haha - Drinkwater and Vardy take time to get used to the pace of The Premiership but Gradel has to do it overnight to satisfy a fansite argument. Well I agree it would be harder for even good players to get into our current squad but let's see how Gradel shapes up under a bloke they've called the manager of the decade. I saw nothing that suggested he couldn't score goals, make goals or take defensive responsibility at any level but we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Have to agree with the above. I never thought of Gradel as a goal scoring winger. He did ok in the third tier of English football, but didn't show the required consistency or to my mind the required application the following season. I am really pleased things have worked out for him, but never thought he was good enough for Leicester City. Is that the same shooting consistency Schlupp's lacking? And one or two others. As mentioned before - it's back over to the coaches. The talent's there and they're paid to develop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I can't stand Stringer .... but he does have a point. It's a shame we didn't see more of Gradel - always exciting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMBlcfc Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I'm very suprised people are slating gradel. I thought it was widely considered Pearson's big mistake how he dealt with that situation. Would have loved him to play more and stay longer with us. Shown internationally and abroad that he is class. Would love to see him back here if bournemouth go down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian S Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I never noticed Gradel having a bad attitude. Many's the time he had "no idea" why he'd been left out of a team or squad. Part of the reason Pearson's no longer manager here is that he couldn't seem to cope with the requirements of being a Premiership manager...either its broader responsibilities and, perhaps too, with people who saw things differently to the way he did. Stringer's an example and perhaps our Director of Football, Jon Rudkin too. Yes, Stringer's both an irritant sometimes, and an ambitious young journalist determined to to get himself noticed most of the time. But there's nothing unusual in that. Premiership managers meet lots of such people and have to smile and cope with them. Media relations are part of the job but, for all that he was told by many people on many occasions that he needed to handle things better, he clearly didn't listen or change and I can only imagine him being the same with others he didn't naturally get along with. I don't pretend to know how he got on with Gradel but he was never the best at bringing young players through - and that includes his own son given the way his career at Leicester came to an end through stupidity and irresponsibity. But I do believe Gradel was one of the best talents to emerge from our Academy and given the success of his time under Rudkin's charge - much of which I watched in person - I saw no signs of a bad attitude or of a kid not being able to get on with his coaches or team-mates. Quite the contrary, I saw a real unit among the under 18s at that time and a team that won for fun. The only "attitude" Gradel needed to change was his ability to defend. He did show a willingness in the end but his efforts did make his team-mates wince at times although he's improved considerably since. The impression I got was that Pearson couldn't wait and didn't effectively oversee the transition of Gradel from Academy product to fully-fledged senior, although Gradel's family loss and inevitably changed circumstances clearly played a part. What we lost was the most exciting goalscoring winger we've had at the club in modern times. He was the classic uncut diamond just waiting for the right craftsman to bring out all his facets. But Pearson wasn't that craftsman and I'm not at all sure he got the best out of Knockaert either or even Mahrez given the latter's mesmerising form so far this season. Yawn,Yawn ! Yet another dig at the best manager we have had since MON and in the top 3 in my time,been going 45 years before you ask.This great classic uncut diamond has hardly gone on to be a world beater has he under the management of others,not to say he is a bad player but really. Bloody Pearson, he really did hold the club back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I didn't say Pearson never included young players I said he didn't introduce many from our own ranks and his record of developing and improving those players wasn't especially good. Well firstly other than Gradel (a player he actually gave a fair amount of game time to in his first season) has there been anyone he's overlooked that has gone on to achieve anything? If the talent isn't there they aren't going to come through. He said he didn't want to lose Gradel (his words) at the time, he obviously felt Gradel would be best served spending a season out on loan. If Gradel takes exception to that and decides he doesn't want to come back, it's hard to pin that all on Pearson. As it turned out another season in league one served the lad well in his development. Perhaps Person was correct? King, Schlupp and Moore I've spoken about and with King having been in the team before Pearson's arrival that leaves Schlupp and Moore as the only first team squad members to have emerged from the Academy thanks to Pearson. It's not a lot given the timespan. Come on, King had played a handful of games before Pearson came in and he didn't have to pick him. As it is he's often been one of the few players Pearson has stuck and always been one of the most played. As for Hobbs - I didn't rate him at all and he certainly didn't improve here while. James needed to be more controlled when shooting but made no progress in this respect and Drinkwater had an fairly forgettable first season in the Premiership and has thankfully re-emerged looking his best again since Ranieri's arrival....and perhaps the experience of getting used to the pace of The Premiership You might think no players have progressed, but at the end most of his early signings are all playing at higher levels now than they ever have. I'm sure the majority are happy with their progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 King was in the team before Pearson but he played about 8 matches- he was not a regular starter. Pearson gave him a proper chance from the first match in charge v MK Dons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_star Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Yes, Stringer's both an irritant sometimes, and an ambitious young journalist determined to to get himself noticed most of the time. Journalist? I'm sorry, but if that's your opinion then it's difficult to hold stock by anything else you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I think there are many things that you can criticise Pearson for .... but bringing on youth isn't one of them for me. He was after all a little one dimensional on his return and set on creating a "young and hungry" at the time I think he went too far with this and actually needed a bit more experience ... a lesson which to be fair he caught onto a year or so later. There does seem to be a lack of anyone breaking through to the first team from the academy, maybe that's normal for this day and age ... maybe our academy isn't producing the talent??? I don't think it's that NP wasn't playing them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I think there are many things that you can criticise Pearson for .... but bringing on youth isn't one of them for me. He was after all a little one dimensional on his return and set on creating a "young and hungry" at the time I think he went too far with this and actually needed a bit more experience ... a lesson which to be fair he caught onto a year or so later. There does seem to be a lack of anyone breaking through to the first team from the academy, maybe that's normal for this day and age ... maybe our academy isn't producing the talent??? I don't think it's that NP wasn't playing them though. I think it very much depends on the remit of the club as well at the time. If the manager is tasked with promotion and his job and others depend on it, it's going to make bringing through and risking kids harder unless they are already of obvious class and above what we already have. If you're a league one team or middle of the road championship team it's much easier to take risks on young players and give them the time to develop. The expectation isn't there and bringing through assets is likely to be one of your remits. I'm sure that's something the owners very much want long term, hence the investment in Cat 1 status. But I'm sure they are realistic along with it, it could be 5-10 years before you start seeing a massive benefit from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCABC Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Can we not move on fro the back and forth ref what Pearson did or didnt do well. Long story short he lost the backing the owners which ultimately cost him his job. The rest is irrelevant now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Gradel had a bad attitude and was hanging around with the wrong people hence why he was sold. Pearson didn't want players like that. You can have all the skill in the world but if your attitude is wrong then you are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 I think it very much depends on the remit of the club as well at the time. If the manager is tasked with promotion and his job and others depend on it, it's going to make bringing through and risking kids harder unless they are already of obvious class and above what we already have. If you're a league one team or middle of the road championship team it's much easier to take risks on young players and give them the time to develop. The expectation isn't there and bringing through assets is likely to be one of your remits. I'm sure that's something the owners very much want long term, hence the investment in Cat 1 status. But I'm sure they are realistic along with it, it could be 5-10 years before you start seeing a massive benefit from that. Yeah I agree ..... the remit was promotion nothing else .... that's why he didn't take any unnecessary risks. It's even harder bringing them through now as the step up to premier league from youth is massive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 18 August 2015 Share Posted 18 August 2015 Never understood the Gradel love. He looked decent for us and has gone on to have a decent career. But it's not like we've missed him or struggled without him. Good luck to him at Bournemouth but I honest don't think he'd have been close to being in the first team these past three seasons and would likely have been sold anyway. With you on this. Bit over-rated for me. He isn't even close to Riyad Mahrez in terms of ability and I'd say Knockaert was far better for us too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 19 August 2015 Share Posted 19 August 2015 Well he's obviously been reading this thread again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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