MC Prussian Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Those that criticised Vardy last year were right at the time because he was average. They are also right to give him all the praise that he deserves this year for being outstanding Shinji at the moment looks like a dud. You can only judge him on what you see, not on what he might, or probably will not, become and at the moment he is a just a passenger. I don't know about that. Like I've already mentioned in other posts, he does contribute to the team when he's on the pitch. People tend to rate strikers based on their goalscoring record and that clouds their judgement to some extent, but I guess we need to see the bigger picture here and what Okazaki brings to the team or why Ranieri puts him on the pitch. Vardy is our main weapon up front right now, with Mahrez chipping in occasionally. Okazaki takes quite some pressure off Vardy, because the former draws defenders, thus opening the field for the latter to exploit more space for himself. At Mainz, I always thought he was their main target man. At current, his goalscoring record is almost on par with the one at Stuttgart. Vardy's performance last season maybe looks average on paper, but I do believe it took him some time to adapt to the Premier League and the failings of the team as a whole affected his own play. I wouldn't panic. We've just seen a third of the season go by, plenty of games to come and a plethora of points to play for. He'll come in handy, just like some more of our regular bench players.
Babylon Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Those that criticised Vardy last year were right at the time because he was average. They are also right to give him all the praise that he deserves this year for being outstanding Shinji at the moment looks like a dud. You can only judge him on what you see, not on what he might, or probably will not, become and at the moment he is a just a passenger. It's ok to be critical, but Vardy was often not playing in his best or favourite position in most of his poorer games, just like Shinji isn't. So long as people keep that in mind and don't write people off on the back of it I'm fine with critisism. If you ask someone to play as a back to goal support striker when they excelled in Germany playing a totally different game, then there are likely to be issues.
foxfanazer Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 It's ok to be critical, but Vardy was often not playing in his best or favourite position in most of his poorer games, just like Shinji isn't. So long as people keep that in mind and don't write people off on the back of it I'm fine with critisism. If you ask someone to play as a back to goal support striker when they excelled in Germany playing a totally different game, then there are likely to be issues.Thats the point though, he can't play that role so don't pkay him in it. If that's what we are looking for then Ulloa is clearly the better option
Babylon Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Thats the point though, he can't play that role so don't pkay him in it. If that's what we are looking for then Ulloa is clearly the better option As I've said about 200 times, he's being asked to do a certain job in certain games. Ranieri knows he's not perfect for that position, that's obvious because he's only being used in certain situations. Have you really not noticed the fact that he comes in for games where we're likely to have even less of the ball than normal, which means more harassing, more tracking back, more defending from the front? Something he's better suited to than Ulloa, or Kramaric, or Mahrez, or perhaps even Andy King. He's not going to offer you as much of a forward thread as the Ulloa who you mention, but he's offering something they can't in certain situations when it's needed. Just as Ulloa, or Mahrez will offer a better option in other situations. Hence Ranieri tweaking the 10 position more than any other on the pitch. We don't have the perfect 10 who offers the defend from the front ability and the attacking threat and is the perfect fit for every game**. So until we do, we will continue to see that position rotated to suit the situation and the opposition. ** Well we do have one who is a better fit than all of them, his name is Jamie Vardy and he's actually doing rather well as being the focal point up front. Only a mad man would change his role now.
Guest Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 On what evidence will he get better? Nearly 30, no real pace, not great in the air, can't go past a man, not very strong and not very creative. What am I missing that make you think he will get any better, outside work rate what are his qualities to the team? through experience in the prem and getting to know his teammates and them him. Stop your knocking man.
filbertway Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Those whoscored stats make for a pretty interesting read, I find it hard to argue with any of those. It's definitely a position we can improve on, there must be a player out there who is a willing runner but can also contribute with goals and assists. I only get to see him when I catch a stream so can't appreciate his work off the ball when at the ground live. We really need our second striker to be contributing something other than work rate though, we need assists and goals as well. In games we can dominate I'd definitely fancy Kram to get a run, but more than likely it'd be big Leo.
AKCJ Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 On what evidence will he get better? Nearly 30, no real pace, not great in the air, can't go past a man, not very strong and not very creative. What am I missing that make you think he will get any better, outside work rate what are his qualities to the team? Aside from the "no real pace bit" you have literally just described Vardy of last season.
lcfcsnow Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Aside from the "no real pace bit" you have literally just described Vardy of last season. Vardy got 10+ assists last season didn't he? So he was certainly creative. I also recall a good runs some that should have led to penalties, Chelsea to assist Albrighton comes to mind, and Spurs at home where it was a nailed on pen. So he certainly could go past a man. Vardy was still a threat and adapting all season. Okazaki isn't.
Gerard Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 I think the best argument in Okazaki's favour is Ranieri's judgment. I think we'll see what Ranieri thinks of Okazaki when we have an opportunity to buy in January and if not next month then definitely in the summer. At the moment he's the best choice of a bad bunch. He wants someone to link the play with Vardy and he has a choice of Ulloa whose not a link up man, Kramaric who is useless or a MF. Okazaki almosts wins by default.
Gerard Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 through experience in the prem and getting to know his teammates and them him. Stop your knocking man. Just generic crap that means nothing then? Outside of work rate I don't suppose you can give me any attributes he has to suggest he will be a success here?
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 It's ok to be critical, but Vardy was often not playing in his best or favourite position in most of his poorer games, just like Shinji isn't. So long as people keep that in mind and don't write people off on the back of it I'm fine with critisism. If you ask someone to play as a back to goal support striker when they excelled in Germany playing a totally different game, then there are likely to be issues. That's true - there was also countless games mid-season where the strikers got absolutely bugger all service the entire match
Wymsey Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 I think he would be useful in a side facing a relegation battle, such as Newcastle or Villa. But, with out current attacking flair Okazaki is the odd one out at the moment - but we need that type in him and Kante who both have the ability to have the will to tackle for the ball.
Ric Flair Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 The thing is, Okazaki has all the attributes to play the role he is playing and his non-stop style should get him in to scoring positions as well but right now he doesn't seem to get in to them. That's my criticism of him. He's pressing well and doing a job up top but he also needs to develop a better positional sense when we attack because he's often a nuisance who gets in the way of crosses and shots instead of being on the end of them. His control for the ball that came in to him in the first half on Saturday that went out for a goal kick was frustrating, that's the sort of half chance he needs to bang in to get him going.
Babylon Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Just generic crap that means nothing then? Outside of work rate I don't suppose you can give me any attributes he has to suggest he will be a success here? The same attributes that meant he could score against Dortmund, Munchengladbach, Werder Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, amongst others whilst in Germany. You can slate the quality of the German league all you want, but he scored against a lot of teams who were no mugs in that league the previous two season.
Gerard Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 The same attributes that meant he could score against Dortmund, Munchengladbach, Werder Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, amongst others whilst in Germany. You can slate the quality of the German league all you want, but he scored against a lot of teams who were no mugs in that league the previous two season. I don't suppose you care to name those attributes as for the life of me I can't see what he has to worry defences outside of work rate.
Bettsj2 Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 I don't suppose you care to name those attributes as for the life of me I can't see what he has to worry defences outside of work rate. He smiles loads.
Guest Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 Just generic crap that means nothing then? Outside of work rate I don't suppose you can give me any attributes he has to suggest he will be a success here? All of those the scouting staff saw in him. You do talk more crap than most others on here put together.
Guest Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 I don't suppose you care to name those attributes as for the life of me I can't see what he has to worry defences outside of work rate. Could you tell me what attributes you bring to the forum?
Thracian Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 It's ok to be critical, but Vardy was often not playing in his best or favourite position in most of his poorer games, just like Shinji isn't. So long as people keep that in mind and don't write people off on the back of it I'm fine with critisism. If you ask someone to play as a back to goal support striker when they excelled in Germany playing a totally different game, then there are likely to be issues. It's ok to be critical, but Vardy was often not playing in his best or favourite position in most of his poorer games, just like Shinji isn't. So long as people keep that in mind and don't write people off on the back of it I'm fine with critisism. If you ask someone to play as a back to goal support striker when they excelled in Germany playing a totally different game, then there are likely to be issues. It's well known that Leicester like players to be competent in various roles, if possible. I can't remember Shinji being "written off" by anyone, rather more that he's an okay player who needs to be doing more to justify his seemingly all-but-automatic selection. A hat-trick at Swansea will be fine!
Thracian Posted 2 December 2015 Posted 2 December 2015 I don't suppose you care to name those attributes as for the life of me I can't see what he has to worry defences outside of work rate. I'd doubt those defences would understand a word of his Japanese!
shen Posted 4 December 2015 Posted 4 December 2015 What job do you think he is being asked to do? He's clearly being asked to play more of an attacking midfielder than a striker, and he's performing that role better than anyone else in the squad has shown themselves to be capable of. I'm don't think Ranieri would have signed Okazaki. He's merely making the best of what he has got and right now Okazaki is the best player we have for that role. I think he's being asked to close down from the front and support Vardy whenever he can. He doesn't offer near enough support for Vardy. I mean, he is an 'attacking' midfielder, not an advanced 'defensive' midfielder... He's shown that once he gets the ball, he isn't good enough with it and is often not strong enough to hold on to the ball. When you think of our current tactics is to get as quickly as possible up the field, he is not quite quick enough in body or mind or just still not in tune with the rest of the team. He might well be the player Ranieri thinks is best suited for it. To me it just seems like King could do the same things asked of Okazaki, but with added benefits.
Thracian Posted 4 December 2015 Posted 4 December 2015 The same attributes that meant he could score against Dortmund, Munchengladbach, Werder Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, amongst others whilst in Germany. You can slate the quality of the German league all you want, but he scored against a lot of teams who were no mugs in that league the previous two season. The same attributes that meant he could score against Dortmund, Munchengladbach, Werder Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, amongst others whilst in Germany. You can slate the quality of the German league all you want, but he scored against a lot of teams who were no mugs in that league the previous two season. But you explained that he's not being asked to play that role. Kingy scored double figures when playing a more attacking role. But he's judged as a coverer and tackler when he plays more defensively. No-one gives a toss about how good he was as an attacker. People describe Shinji's performance as like the pre-emergent Vardy except for pace yet while forgiving his lack of pace they condemn King's when there's precious little difference, when King is every bit as natural a striker, a far better passer and, these days, a more reliable coverer and tackler too. No I'm not delivering an advert for King cos I could easily make as sound claims for Ulloa in Shinji's place but, again, no-one would make excuses for Ulloa's limitations when not leading the line as they do for Shinji in not not playing his best and most natural role. Another thing is that people say don't mend what's not broken but there was nothing broken when King and Ullloa were losing their places either so that's just more "convenience" argument and seeing what they want to see. I've tried to read the various opinions to see exactly why Shinji's consistently preferred and can only see the following: a) That Shinji's hustling pressures and hurries defenders more than Ulloa's and that's considered more valuable than the latter's projected goals tally with Vardy leading the line. b) That Shinji's hurstling may not be worth more than Kingy's all round competence but his value in promoting the club out East is and Kingy's therefore been sidelined into what is still arguably an important role as our most reliable first change midfielder...presumably because he's got the good nature and professionalism to fulfill that role to the best of his ability and with a good grace. It's actually one of the things I admire most in the man...and helps make him a true legend of the club in my mind.
MPH Posted 4 December 2015 Posted 4 December 2015 Just generic crap that means nothing then? Outside of work rate I don't suppose you can give me any attributes he has to suggest he will be a success here? Think i will trust Steve Walsh's judgement ahead of yours, no offence mate.
MooseBreath Posted 4 December 2015 Posted 4 December 2015 But you explained that he's not being asked to play that role. Kingy scored double figures when playing a more attacking role. But he's judged as a coverer and tackler when he plays more defensively. No-one gives a toss about how good he was as an attacker. People describe Shinji's performance as like the pre-emergent Vardy except for pace yet while forgiving his lack of pace they condemn King's when there's precious little difference, when King is every bit as natural a striker, a far better passer and, these days, a more reliable coverer and tackler too. No I'm not delivering an advert for King cos I could easily make as sound claims for Ulloa in Shinji's place but, again, no-one would make excuses for Ulloa's limitations when not leading the line as they do for Shinji in not not playing his best and most natural role. Another thing is that people say don't mend what's not broken but there was nothing broken when King and Ullloa were losing their places either so that's just more "convenience" argument and seeing what they want to see. I've tried to read the various opinions to see exactly why Shinji's consistently preferred and can only see the following: a) That Shinji's hustling pressures and hurries defenders more than Ulloa's and that's considered more valuable than the latter's projected goals tally with Vardy leading the line. b) That Shinji's hurstling may not be worth more than Kingy's all round competence but his value in promoting the club out East is and Kingy's therefore been sidelined into what is still arguably an important role as our most reliable first change midfielder...presumably because he's got the good nature and professionalism to fulfill that role to the best of his ability and with a good grace. It's actually one of the things I admire most in the man...and helps make him a true legend of the club in my mind. You're talking about Andy King like he has time proven ability to operate as a "number 10" for a team occupying the champions league places when he simply hasn't. He scored double figures in league one but has rarely scored or looked like scoring in the premier league and nor has he ever stood out in any other aspect of his game at this level. I like Andy King and could see him performing reasonably well in a lower half premier league team but to talk about him as if he has anything like Okazaki's pedigree is plain silly.
AKCJ Posted 4 December 2015 Posted 4 December 2015 I don't suppose you care to name those attributes as for the life of me I can't see what he has to worry defences outside of work rate. The ol' one time shoot two time score.
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