gerrytaggart Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 I watched the unedited version too...Id still sack all 3. Nothing against bisexuallity (although being naked and aroused with my mates isnt something that appeals to me) nothing against orgies. The problem is and always was the racism and degrading attitudes and behaviour towards these women.
inckley fox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 You don't half post some utter rubbish sometimes. After reading through this site and then watching the video it's pretty clear most people have an opinion... but an ill informed one. Watching the video (which I can only presume was all there is to see) changed my perspective completely, because one player was at the centre of it and he seems to have been the one whose comments have caused the most outrage. Now I might not agree with what the other two are doing and they still need to be dealt with. But it changed my mind from an instantly sacking of all three, to the definite sacking of one and some serious consideration about the other two. Well yes I do because that's exactly why I watched it and it changed my opinion. Yeah, I looked a the video and that was my impression too. I'm not sure participating in group sex where one of your mates is acting like a complete dickhead is sufficient reason for getting the sack, and your whole life uprooted. There might be some raised eyebrows if one player was fired and two others were quietly released at the end of their contracts, but it might be the most sensible way out.
cc_star Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 You don't half post some utter rubbish sometimes. After reading through this site and then watching the video it's pretty clear most people have an opinion... but an ill informed one. Watching the video (which I can only presume was all there is to see) changed my perspective completely, because one player was at the centre of it and he seems to have been the one whose comments have caused the most outrage. Now I might not agree with what the other two are doing and they still need to be dealt with. But it changed my mind from an instantly sacking of all three, to the definite sacking of one and some serious consideration about the other two. Well yes I do because that's exactly why I watched it and it changed my opinion. I get where you're coming from with regards to Smith & J. Pearson, but I still think the incident on an official club trip in the owner's home country & in a huge market that they want & need to develop is serious enough to be gross misconduct. Especially when you take into account Amazing-thailand etc Or indeed the club's official stance of "Our players at every level are expected to behave as representatives and ambassadors for our Football Club, both on official Club duty and in their personal lives, so we treat their conduct extremely seriously."
hackneyfox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 My initial post was aimed at someone who I believed wanted to watch it for kicks not to get to the truth. My comments about being on a par are perhaps a bit ott but those making a joke about this arent much better if they find racist and sexual abuse amusing. Personally I don't care who said or did what, I'd sack all 3 for showing the club up and for sheer stupidity. Do the club not employ someone to educate the players in social and media skills? You'd have thought that someone would have realised that there was a chance that something could go wrong.
Babylon Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 You can choose your friends. You can choose which guys and girls you have sex with. You can choose whether you film yourself. And you can choose to have an "orgy" disrespecting the nation that are welcoming you on a BUSINESS trip. All 3 need to be sacked for unprofessional conduct. So if a video had leaked of them just having sex with no sound, you think it would have caused this outrage and calls for their sacking? I do not for one minute think it would have, and that's why all the articles focus on the racism and the comments about the women.
stripeyfox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 I haven't seen the video, so my picture of events is largely formed by what I have read here. We accept that the racial slur is probably the worst thing and that only one person used the slur. But for me, that doesn't let the other two off. They were there, they were involved. Neither of them (I presume) is recorded as declaring "this is a bad idea". They went along with it and for the reasons outlined dozens of times already - all three should be dismissed for no other reason than the whole issue is "toxic" for the club and they need to be rid of them and I think have ample justification for doing so.
hackneyfox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Yeah, I looked a the video and that was my impression too. I'm not sure participating in group sex where one of your mates is acting like a complete dickhead is sufficient reason for getting the sack, and your whole life uprooted. There might be some raised eyebrows if one player was fired and two others were quietly released at the end of their contracts, but it might be the most sensible way out.Being employed by a club with Thai owners and Thai sponsors and then getting involved in this whilst being a representative of the club is a sackable offence for me and the only way the club will come out of it with any standing.
yorkie1999 Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Antics. Travel to a third-world country on a work trip, end up in a bisexual orgy with women who are so poor that they will prostitute themselves for loose change. Humiliate and racially insult the women, whilst they perform degrading sexual acts on you. Oh, and film it and send it to your mates. Just lads’ antics. Mate, if our fanbase was just 100% lads then maybe there wouldn’t be a problem. But those smaller, smooth-faced people with funny shoes that you see at football matches aren’t smurfs. They’re called WOMEN! Get used to them, they ain’t going away. I thought it meant outrageous behaviour. my bad.
Fox Ulike Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 I thought it meant outrageous behaviour. my bad. Actually I think you might have been right all along! antics(ˈæntɪks) pl n 1. absurd or grotesque acts or postures
Guest MattP Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Being employed by a club with Thai owners and Thai sponsors and then getting involved in this whilst being a representative of the club is a sackable offence for me and the only way the club will come out of it with any standing. Why is the Thai angle so big in regards to the women? Would this be ok if it was an orgy with Cambodian women? Would we go harsher on a foreigner if he had a threesome with two English birds as we are from here?
AKCJ Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 So if a video had leaked of them just having sex with no sound, you think it would have caused this outrage and calls for their sacking? I do not for one minute think it would have, and that's why all the articles focus on the racism and the comments about the women. I honestly didn't think anyone was bothered about the lads having sex. I imagine every single 'single' player pulled when they were there. Just the two comments "slit-eye" and "absolutely minging" which is what's annoying people. Find whoever said that and either sack them, or more likely, heavily fine them so we can all move on.
gerrytaggart Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 This is probably the worst thread (subject wise) we have ever had on ft...but I cant stop coming back to it. Its so bad its fascinating!
Babylon Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 I get where you're coming from with regards to Smith & J. Pearson, but I still think the incident on an official club trip in the owner's home country & in a huge market that they want & need to develop is serious enough to be gross misconduct. Especially when you take into account Amazing-thailand etc Or indeed the club's official stance of "Our players at every level are expected to behave as representatives and ambassadors for our Football Club, both on official Club duty and in their personal lives, so we treat their conduct extremely seriously." I'm not saying I wouldn't still sacking them, but I'd really think long and hard about it. One of them should be out of the door already without a second thought (following correct procedure obviously). I have a modicum of sympathy** for those two, that the comments of one of their "friends" would lose them their job. Their actions alone without his comments probably would have resulted in a different outcome. **And I do mean a small amount, it's hard to have much at all.
yorkie1999 Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Actually I think you might have been right all along! antics(ˈæntɪks) pl n 1. absurd or grotesque acts or postures I know, just wanted to you to look it up and realise that shouting people down isn't always the best way, i mean, there are women about after all.
gerrytaggart Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Why is the Thai angle so big in regards to the women? Would this be ok if it was an orgy with Cambodian women? Would we go harsher on a foreigner if he had a threesome with two English birds as we are from here? No one would bat an eyelid...unless they started spouting racist shite then it would become a big problem. And as for the thai 'angle'.... Did someone miss the point of this whole thread?
Finnaldo Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Hopper will probably be sacked and the other two will face heavy punishment, from what I've seen of the video. He seemed to be the centre of most of the mysogynistoc and racial behaviour, although I don't know what else there is to it that we haven't seen.
inckley fox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 You can choose your friends. You can choose which guys and girls you have sex with. You can choose whether you film yourself. And you can choose to have an "orgy" disrespecting the nation that are welcoming you on a BUSINESS trip. All 3 need to be sacked for unprofessional conduct. I think the point is that only one of the three was responsible for 'disrespecting the nation'. You can indeed choose your friends, but making the wrong choice isn't a sackable offence. You can choose who you have sex with, but making bad choices - unless they're under-age or otherwise illegal - isn't a sackable offence. You can film yourself doing humiliating things (though I'm not sure all three are doing the filming) which some would consider immoral, but if it's legal it's not a sackable offence. The 'choice' made here which constitutes a sackable offence is the language that one player uses, and I don't think the other two were able to 'choose' what came out of his mouth. The real professional question, for me, is the filming. The fact that all three are happy with the filming, and that it shows them in a light which is massively degrading to women and Thai people, is what may well cost the lot of them their jobs. But their behaviour - we might not like what the other two players do, or the company they keep, but we have to ask whether we're taking offence at their behaviour as humans, or their behaviour as professionals. And, again, is taking part in group sex in which one person is acting like a complete prat as severe as ending up in court for drink-driving? And by that I'm referring to their behaviour as humans, and as representatives of the club? We have to be careful that we're not so shocked and appalled by the visual impact of what we've seen that we, as a result, lose all perspective. It's bad - that's clear - but the club's reaction is going to require serious, careful and sober consideration, rather than rabid outrage. The consequence of which, by the way, could well be severe damage to, or even the loss of, our manager. I'd say waving the 'sack these bastards' banner without knowing all of the circumstances, or the players' reactions, or maintaining a sense of balance, is potentially a very silly thing to do.
Mike Oxlong Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 The weird thing is (amongst others) that one of them thought after the event that what had occurred made them look good, gave them status and kudos, and therefore sent it to at least one "friend". So one of them thinks that being a racist, mysogynist bully (pun intended) is cool. These are skewed core values that require professional help to remedy. Thankfully they have enough of their own money to pay for the help that is needed - if they think they need it and their apology is in anyway sincere.
Mark_w Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 So if a video had leaked of them just having sex with no sound, you think it would have caused this outrage and calls for their sacking? I do not for one minute think it would have, and that's why all the articles focus on the racism and the comments about the women. You'd hope that if they disagreed the other two would call Hopper out on his racism and misogyny. Doing so in the middle of an orgy might be a bit weird granted. But the reality is Tom Hopper was an idiot, racist and misogynist long before this, I do think you have to question whether you'd want to keep players who gravitate to people like that at your football club personally. It might not be a sackable offence (I don't know I haven't seen it - if they're also guilty of misogyny or racism then get them out straight away to) but I wouldn't feel an ounce of sympathy if Smith or Pearson go as a result of this.
inckley fox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Being employed by a club with Thai owners and Thai sponsors and then getting involved in this whilst being a representative of the club is a sackable offence for me and the only way the club will come out of it with any standing. The club's standing will recover very quickly when the media story dies down, regardless of what decision they make. People quickly forgave Liverpool for standing by and making huge amounts of money out of Suarez and people soon forgot the (was it West Ham?) sex tapes. Even if you roll the two together - which is effectively what these boys have succeeded in doing - it'd be forgotten. And the key is to make the right decision for the offence, the players, the footballing community and our manager. There may be an element of balance needed there.
cc_star Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 If you don't call someone out on their behavior, are you as bad as them, especially given which trio of people has the power in this demeaning & completely disrespectful situation "Steady mate, that's a bit much..." rather than "pwoar go on, get in there" like comments
Aus Fox Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 As I said in the Danny Simpson thread, regardless of who is guilty of this sort of behaviour they should be sacked from star player to the youngest academy player. Racist, sexist, misogynistic or any other sort of violent or offensive behaviour should not be tolorated. We as a club need to make a stand and prove we do not accept this as a normal behaviour.
Guest Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 But you do need to watch it to realise it's seemingly just one person making all of those comments. Going off comments on here, an edited and blurred out video and red top headlines I'm not sure that comes across at all. In fact it can't because all three are being tarred with exactly the same brush. I can agree to disagree. I don't think they are all being tarred with the same brush. Hopper is clearly being seen as the worst culprit but that doesn't mean that all 3 shouldn't be sacked. I think that's the necessary step for LCFC to take but it doesn't mean that Hopper shouldn't face other charges through the authorites (or maybe through LCFC too). I feel very sorry for NP but there is no reason he can't go along fully with his son's sacking and then try to re-ignite a football career for him (even though I've never thought JP was good enough to be on the city books).
Guest MattP Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 You'd hope that if they disagreed the other two would call Hopper out on his racism and misogyny. Doing so in the middle of an orgy might be a bit weird granted. But the reality is Tom Hopper was an idiot, racist and misogynist long before this, I do think you have to question whether you'd want to keep players who gravitate to people like that at your football club personally. It might not be a sackable offence (I don't know I haven't seen it - if they're also guilty of misogyny or racism then get them out straight away to) but I wouldn't feel an ounce of sympathy if Smith or Pearson go as a result of this. Do you really think someone is going to start going into a political debate on racism and misogyny while you've got your cock in a Thai bird's mouth? If you are going to get involved these sort of situations I think it's best you keep your morality to yourself
cc_star Posted 2 June 2015 Posted 2 June 2015 Do you really think someone is going to start going into a political debate on racism and misogyny while you've got your cock in a Thai bird's mouth? If you are going to get involved these sort of situations I think it's best you keep your morality to yourself No debate needed: Mate that's out of order Or even C'mon guys, this ain't right... I'm going By not doing that, they're complicit in a situation that from what I've seen seems gross misconduct Never mind the fact you're on a business trip to your boss' back yard
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