Paris Shootings

[Guest]

The Peace Settlement which officially ended The Troubles of Northern Ireland actually gives some scant hope for the situation in Iraq/Syria because what seemed like an everlasting impasse between long-time enemies was finally resolved for the greater good of a community that had mostly had enough of living in fear all the time.

For this British person and more particularly for part of his family The Troubles were up close and personal with bombing, killing, extortion the lot. We did care, and a damned good job it ended. There's a proposed settlement being evolved in Syria at the moment which may take as long to put together as the agreement in Northern Ireland. Eighteen months to three years is the projection and we should all hope it comes about.     Because Wars generally solve nothing.      

 

 

From what I understand from people in Ireland the troubles are far from over they are just reported differently. There certainly isn't communal harmony (and here both sides describe themselves as Christians). It'll take at least a generation (and probably 2 or 3).

 

It should also be noted that the peace settlement only followed the end of IRA finance from the USA. If the money and arms hadn't somewhat dried up there wouldn't have been any settlement.

 

Will the West accept their "bloody Sunday" in Iraq, Afghanistan ....?

[Guest]

Went there with some uni mates to the Paris Photo event. We were sat in a bar two streets away from where the gunmen were. We were watching the France v Germany game when the barman came running up to change the channel. I don't speak French but all he said at first was "bomb" so obviously we scarpered. We headed back to our hotel room and the hotel went on lockdown. We all just sat watching the news.. It was just siren after siren all night. Not ashamed to say we were frightened a lot. Next morning we only discovered it was as close as it was to us We were supposed to stay there till this afternoon, but we managed to get Eurostar back to St. Pancras last night. 

All i can say is that the French people we met in the bar on several occasions prior to the attacks and after couldn't have been more friendly, welcoming and generous. My heart goes out to them all. 

 

Glad you're safe and well.

[inckley fox]

He wasn't being thick, the analogy was stupid. ISIL is a ideology based on religious text and a prophets life, way more different then 22 men kicking a ball. To defeat this type of terrorism which has been administered by Islamic people for centuries, you have to look at in detail the roots of which justifies there actions

 

It depends what you're comparing. Obviously as a general comparison it would be a terrible analogy, but if you're comparing the two in terms of violent social problems which occur as a consequence of social identification, and wherein the motive for that identification - be it a football team, a city, a country, a religion - isn't something which should necessarily be provoking violence, then there is at least one similarity. I suppose he's saying that the cause you hide yourself behind isn't necessarily the cause of the crimes you commit, and there's some truth in that. Obviously if we dealt with this problem in the same way as we dealt with that one, by introducing seating and increased police presence when people went to pray, it wouldn't do any good.

[Guest]

Just ignore fif pro wum

 

Is that because I discredited your England tennis are great or because I reminded you of how you thought so badly of Vardy.

 

Just put me on ignore if you can't handle an opinion that is different to yours. 

They've now changed the word "Muslim" to "restaurant worker"

 

Is it relevant that he worked in a restaurant?

[Manwell Pablo]

Is that because I discredited your England tennis are great or because I reminded you of how you thought so badly of Vardy.

 

Just put me on ignore if you can't handle an opinion that is different to yours. 

 

Is it relevant that he worked in a restaurant?

Claiming Islamic extremists aren't Muslims is not an opinion. It's moronic.

There's no such thing as English tennis, great English btw.

[Strokes]

Unless you mean EVERYONE, not ANYONE, then I think you're being naive at best.

Personally, the people who believe all Muslims are evil and should be destroyed, are as bad as ISIS members who want to wipe out the evil western world, in my eyes. Also amongst both groups there will be people, often weak-minded, follow the crowd sheep types, who are simply misguided rather than being truly evil.

Being an ignorant racist isn't as bad as being a murderous terrorist imho.

[Fox92]

Donald Trump has said the outcome would  have been different if the civilians had  guns. 

Yes it may have been. There would have been more attackers with bigger guns and bombs. There would have been panic amongst the crowd with them not knowing who was the good or bad guys resulting in more deaths.

The man's a fool.

 

He doesn't half say some stupid things and this is another example.

[Claridge]

considering everyone is blaming "muslims" I think the religion of the rescuer DOES have some relevance.

It was' Muslims' and you or I are more likely to be blown up by Muslims. That is a fact, doesn't mean all Muslims are bad, but after every Islamic attack, you get people trying to say their not Muslims. Great story in Dawkin's god delusion about a Muslim at a rally with a banner saying behead those who say Islam is a violent religion.It is and always has been

[Buce]

Being an ignorant racist isn't as bad as being a murderous terrorist imho.

Neither are they mutually exclusive.

[Guest]

Claiming Islamic extremists aren't Muslims is not an opinion. It's moronic.

There's no such thing as English tennis, great English btw.

 

I haven't said that Islamic extremists aren't Muslims.

 

You've either confused me with someone else or you have misunderstood. Both are probably right.

[leicsmac]

Being an ignorant racist isn't as bad as being a murderous terrorist imho.

 

Yeah. 

 

Mind you, could you make an argument that that ignorant racism (and indeed apathy) on a large scale is one of the reasons there wasn't (and isn't) enough pushback against interfering in parts of the world that would be better off left well alone, resulting in part in this cycle of violence? 

 

It was' Muslims' and you or I are more likely to be blown up by Muslims. That is a fact, doesn't mean all Muslims are bad, but after every Islamic attack, you get people trying to say their not Muslims. Great story in Dawkin's god delusion about a Muslim at a rally with a banner saying behead those who say Islam is a violent religion.It is and always has been

 

Yeah, the No True Scotsman doesn't really work very well in this case.

 

However, a quick look at holy books from all the Abrahamic regions give you no shortage of passages that can be twisted into urging violence in the name of belief. "Going Old Testament" is a metaphor for a reason (look at the massacres in central Africa in the name of Christianity).

 

History is full of people craving power over other people and being cvnts about it in order to do so. Organised religion is just one way that this happens. 

 

THAT'S the true human curse, not any one religion.

[Strokes]

Yeah. 

 

Mind you, could you make an argument that that ignorant racism (and indeed apathy) on a large scale is one of the reasons there wasn't (and isn't) enough pushback against interfering in parts of the world that would be better off left well alone, resulting in part in this cycle of violence? 

You could argue that and you may have a point, it's a bit too indirect for me. Wars and intervention are never directly voted for by the people, so their support or protestations are irrelavent I think.

Neither are they mutually exclusive.

Possibly not, I've not spent enough time with a murdurous terrorist to be certain.

[leicsmac]

You could argue that and you may have a point, it's a bit too indirect for me. Wars and intervention are never directly voted for by the people, so their support or protestations are irrelavent I think.

Possibly not, I've not spent enough time with a murdurous terrorist to be certain.

 

No disagreement there. Personally I think the apathy in that regard is actually more dangerous than the outright racism. 

 

I'd push for direct democracy in the UK if it were at all possible, but that would come with its own sense of attendant problems too.

[Wymsey]

Colleges, Universities and Mosques etc need to take more responsibility to teach the effects of radicalization.

 

As simple as it sounds, it probably won't happen overnight.

[Thracian]

From what I understand from people in Ireland the troubles are far from over they are just reported differently. There certainly isn't communal harmony (and here both sides describe themselves as Christians). It'll take at least a generation (and probably 2 or 3).

 

It should also be noted that the peace settlement only followed the end of IRA finance from the USA. If the money and arms hadn't somewhat dried up there wouldn't have been any settlement.

 

Will the West accept their "bloody Sunday" in Iraq, Afghanistan ....?

 

I'm as English as they come but wouldn't dream of condoning Bloody Sunday. As for Iraq I opposed it way before it happened and never for a moment considered that Blair represented me because he didn't and wouldn't.

But how many years do you let hatred fester? We all have the chance to forgive, forget (metaphorically) or ferment.

Sometimes the bitterness can't be diluted.  Other times it's more an excuse to keep hating.

Acquaintances of mine lost a staff member to an IRA bomb and faced their own choice.

The hurt doesn't heal but they welcomed the "peace" and got on with their lives.

Now they never refer to The Troubles in public or even in private from my recollection.

[fleckneymike]

When someone devises a way we can negotiate with god we might start getting somewhere. Until then we're in a spot of bother as it appears god doesn't like:

 

being French

eating at restaurants

listening to music

watching football

riding on public transport

being a journalist

sitting outside cafes

[bovril]

When someone devises a way we can negotiate with god we might start getting somewhere. Until then we're in a spot of bother as it appears god doesn't like:

 

being French

eating at restaurants

listening to music

watching football

riding on public transport

being a journalist

sitting outside cafes

 

Also being Jewish. Or not being Jewish. He's capricious like that.

[sphericalfox]

Why Syrian refugee passport found at Paris attack scene must be treated with caution

 

I found it remarkable really that the Greek authorities were so swift in identifying this individual. Maybe their administration of refugees/migrants is exceptional across the various islands and places of embarkment... 

 

Suppose it's a fame thing/martyrdom thing to be identified, so it's best to keep your passport on you? 

[Rincewind]

Also being Jewish. Or not being Jewish. He's capricious like that.

It depends on which god you support. Similar to supporting a football team. Some people may change gods depending on the rules these are the glory hunters of religion. The agnostics are the plastic fans.

 

Eenny miney hip hurray

Which got to pray to today

It all depends how I feel

And which one gives the better deal.

[Strokes]

When someone devises a way we can negotiate with god we might start getting somewhere. Until then we're in a spot of bother as it appears god doesn't like:

 

being French

eating at restaurants

listening to music

watching football

riding on public transport

being a journalist

sitting outside cafes

Have you nicked my hate list?

[Vardinhio]

I'm interested to see what the response to these attacks will be. More bombing of ISIS? Which will in turn result in more terrorism in Europe. We are in a lose lose situation at the moment and the brutal reality it the only way I can see it being at least partially controlled will be through closure of borders

[Strokes]

Why Syrian refugee passport found at Paris attack scene must be treated with caution

 

I found it remarkable really that the Greek authorities were so swift in identifying this individual. Maybe their administration of refugees/migrants is exceptional across the various islands and places of embarkment... 

 

Suppose it's a fame thing/martyrdom thing to be identified, so it's best to keep your passport on you?

The second point they make is plausible but the other two are nonsense.

[Haydos]

There would be no extremism without religion.

 

 

What the **** are you on about? Seriously. I know you're one for regularly making a twat out of yourself on here but this is a whole new level of stupid.

[sphericalfox]

The second point they make is plausible but the other two are nonsense.

 

explain.

[Rincewind]

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