bovril Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 What we really need is for a percentage of the World population to undergo some kind of cognitive shift whereby they stop believing it's more acceptable to machine gun concert goers than to drink alcohol.
AyewJoking Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I'm sure they do know. Evidently it's someone too powerful to risk pissing off. Someone evil then? why else would they knowingly finance mass murder?
Alf Bentley Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I was just listening to LBC, and they are making a good point. Someone is buying the oil that is giving ISIS money. Cut that off and a lot of their finances are gone. And there is no way that the intelligence services do not know who is buying it. This is very true. But ISIS also get enormous sums of money from certain rich private citizens (not governments) of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other countries in the Middle East. The West has been very short-sighted in not seeking to use diplomacy to pressurise the governments of such countries to do more about that. Probably too worried about upsetting oil and money-rich countries in case a negative response harmed the global economy, I'm guessing.
Merging Cultures Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 This is very true. But ISIS also get enormous sums of money from certain rich private citizens (not governments) of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other countries in the Middle East. The West has been very short-sighted in not seeking to use diplomacy to pressurise the governments of such countries to do more about that. Probably too worried about upsetting oil and money-rich countries in case a negative response harmed the global economy, I'm guessing. Definitely. And the intelligence services know who they are too.
AKCJ Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 These scumbags show a wicked and lack of contempt for anything that doesn't support their ideology. We have to be brutal IMO. Their aim is to go to paradise for 72 virgins, but if they come into contact with pig fat, they don't realise this aim. Think if we catch anybody related to ISIS we have to be brutal by embalming them with pig fat or killing them with a bullet laced with pug fat. Wow, outcry I hear you all say and they're not real Muslims - and yes they aren't - but maybe it would strike fear into them. They have no regard for us and fook their human rights, we need to get down to their level. Controversial I know but we need to do everything Yeah let's piss off the billion or so Muslims to attack the thousands at ISIS...
AKCJ Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Someone evil then? why else would they knowingly finance mass murder? It's bloody worrying. Is it a case of friends close enemies closer? They all need to die. The entire organisation of ISIS is savage. They're not human and they deserve to suffer.
Dr The Singh Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Yeah let's piss off the billion or so Muslims to attack the thousands at ISIS... But ISIS aren't Mulsims according to Muslims, so why should they worry?????????????????
Head Honcho Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 We've had several near misses in this country and it's testament to our security services that we haven't yet had an atrocity such as this. It's only a matter of time though. Sod the human rights act. We need to round these Sunni b*stards up and send them all back to their country of origin with their families in tow. I don't care if they were born here, if they don't want to abide by our laws and customs what the hell are they doing here?
leicsmac Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Someone evil then? why else would they knowingly finance mass murder? Absolutely. But there are a multitude of evil people financing mass murder around the world, and not all of them live in the Middle East...and there's an awful lot of free passes handed out. Is the idea that our own Government and others in the West being in bed with these highly powerful individuals and regimes who bankroll and allow the existence of ISIS and various other vile organisations on the side too reprehensible to consider? This is very true. But ISIS also get enormous sums of money from certain rich private citizens (not governments) of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other countries in the Middle East. The West has been very short-sighted in not seeking to use diplomacy to pressurise the governments of such countries to do more about that. Probably too worried about upsetting oil and money-rich countries in case a negative response harmed the global economy, I'm guessing. This.
leicsmac Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 We've had several near misses in this country and it's testament to our security services that we haven't yet had an atrocity such as this. It's only a matter of time though. Sod the human rights act. We need to round these Sunni b*stards up and send them all back to their country of origin with their families in tow. I don't care if they were born here, if they don't want to abide by our laws and customs what the hell are they doing here? Sadly, sovereignty and citizenship mean something. We can't wash our hands of radicals that were born in the UK as 'not our problem' as they most certainly are, given that the society they grew up in in our own country allowed them to become twisted in that way.
bovril Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Also, all this 'you didn't care when Africans or Middle Easternerns were victims of terrorism' stuff on the internet. Jesus, it's incredible that people can get so tribal even over how people react to tragedies.
Rincewind Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 That is exactly the reaction the terrorists want. Just watched an interesting video from RT news. The reporter in Paris was Gearoid O'Hanhearn. I won't share the link as it will not agree with the majority of people. I am not sure I even agree after one viewing. Basically in ten minutes he was asked three questions and spoke about Western imperialism being to blame. A complete opposing view to what we have seen so far from the media and leaders. There is also a twutter page set up #notinmyname by Muslims across the world opposing ISIS.
Head Honcho Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Sadly, sovereignty and citizenship mean something. We can't wash our hands of radicals that were born in the UK as 'not our problem' as they most certainly are, given that the society they grew up in in our own country allowed them to become twisted in that way. I disagree Islam and the family circle they grew up within allowed them to become radicailised. How come we don't have the same issue with our Hindu and Sikh countrymen and women?
bovril Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 That is exactly the reaction the terrorists want. Just watched an interesting video from RT news. The reporter in Paris was Gearoid O'Hanhearn. I won't share the link as it will not agree with the majority of people. I am not sure I even agree after one viewing. Basically in ten minutes he was asked three questions and spoke about Western imperialism being to blame. A complete opposing view to what we have seen so far from the media and leaders. There is also a twutter page set up #notinmyname by Muslims across the world opposing ISIS. Yes because Eagles of Death Metal and an International football match are fine symbols of Western imperialism. Fvck off with that bullshit already.
Bobby Hundreds Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Also, all this 'you didn't care when Africans or Middle Easternerns were victims of terrorism' stuff on the internet. Jesus, it's incredible that people can get so tribal even over how people react to tragedies. Agree. There are lots of social media posts trying to compare global atrocities, "but no-one reported about X or you haven't changed your flag to Y's after a recent attack". These events always bring out the worst in both left and right sided politics.
Stadt Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I've seen "all religions have extremists" said on social media a few times now, yeah they probably do but currently these other extremists aren't trying to kill most people they come into contact with because they disagree with their way of life.
ramboacdc Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I've seen "all religions have extremists" said on social media a few times now, yeah they probably do but currently these other extremists aren't trying to kill most people they come into contact with because they disagree with their way of life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/firebombs-and-pigs-heads-thrown-into-mosques-as-anti-muslim-attacks-increase-after-paris-shootings-9977423.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351470/Research-reveals-HALF-Britains-mosques-attacked-9-11-anti-Islam-violence-spreads.html
Rincewind Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 This is a long article which may interest those that won't mind reading it all. A bit much for me at the moment. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
leicsmac Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I disagree Islam and the family circle they grew up within allowed them to become radicailised. How come we don't have the same issue with our Hindu and Sikh countrymen and women? I have no doubt that their community was a reason they were radicalised, but there's still the question of why someone who was born in the UK and grew up there would have that happen to them in the first place - and that has at least something to do with the country and environment they have grown up in. Radicalisation is a problem that needs to be fought at all levels. Allowing this radicalisation to occur on our soil and then dismissing it as nothing to do with us is cowardice.
leicsmac Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I've seen "all religions have extremists" said on social media a few times now, yeah they probably do but currently these other extremists aren't trying to kill most people they come into contact with because they disagree with their way of life. What rambo said in the post below. And it's not just religion that's responsible for it, either. It can be summed up thus: The source of all human suffering is in the name of a god, or in the name of a human who thinks they are one.
ramboacdc Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 I have no doubt that their community was a reason they were radicalised, but there's still the question of why someone who was born in the UK and grew up there would have that happen to them in the first place - and that has at least something to do with the country and environment they have grown up in. Radicalisation is a problem that needs to be fought at all levels. Allowing this radicalisation to occur on our soil and then dismissing it as nothing to do with us is cowardice. the community will always have odd balls. if you take the white british community, we have a lot of radicalized people (see Britain first etc.) but with them being in tighter knit communities there is an increased chance they will follow the nutter than do what other larger communities can do and go "don't listen to that arse."
Captain... Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 Every incident like this ends up with the same arguments, which are incidental. Religion: good or bad? Muslims: Peace-loving or evil? The west: Decadent or free? The middle east: full of lunatics trying to kill us or full of innocent people? We can now add refugees: scared victims or opportunistic free loaders or potential terrorists? The response: More blood shed or peace and love? There is no one answer to any of the above, there are just a million shades of grey. Every single one of these arguments detracts from the reality and that is that there is a very real threat out there which is far more complicated than can ever be expressed in a tweet, but while we continue to spread fear and hatred we are only serving to further the aims of the evil people that want to destroy our way of life, but they can't and they never will destroy our way of life only we can do that.
Stadt Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/firebombs-and-pigs-heads-thrown-into-mosques-as-anti-muslim-attacks-increase-after-paris-shootings-9977423.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351470/Research-reveals-HALF-Britains-mosques-attacked-9-11-anti-Islam-violence-spreads.html I take your point but these aren't as widespread and fatal as the attacks in Paris or Tunisia - the perpetrators of those attacks are abhorrent but they're mostly isolated cases really whereas Jihadism is far broader and dangerous. Islamic extremism is a much greater threat to Europe right here and now.
Rincewind Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 It is not known if this is related but the reaction to the shootings can easily lead to incidents like this and others. It needs rational thinking not gut revenge.That will be playing into ISIS hands. We are better than that. http://tribune.com.pk/story/991322/man-pushes-muslim-woman-into-oncoming-underground-train-in-london/
James. Posted 16 November 2015 Posted 16 November 2015 This is a long article which may interest those that won't mind reading it all. A bit much for me at the moment. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ That is a very interesting and informative article, thanks for posting.
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