Ambition

[Ecdysiast]

I'd say our ambition is absolutely fine right now. 

We're not going to be challengers for the title every season and we're not going to be able to match the big boys for wages long term.

We've got a fantastic opportunity for the next couple of years to use the premiership and champions league money and status to boost our squad with youngish or long-term signings that will improve our squad beyond that of our realistic competitors. 

Little point taking on the Man City/ Arsenals / Chelseas of this world for mature players at peak value, when we can use our temporary cachet to attract top tier up and coming talent that will serve us well for the future and prolong our "punching above our weight" status as long as possible.

Buying young is the smart move for the future

 

[Ashley]

40 minutes ago, SPF07 said:

He has torn defences apart this year, in a poor team and would be a squad improvement 

 

44 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Zaha is absolutely toilet. That's probably why.

 

Agreed. Zaha is awful so over rated is untrue.

 

Had an argument with a Palace fan earlier about him.

 

Total career stats read something like 

 

231 appearances 31 goals and 30 assists 

 

Works out to something like a goal or assist every 8.4 games.  We can do better 

[Claridge]

1 hour ago, SPF07 said:

The sale of Schlupp seems imminent but what I don't understand is our lack of ambition at times. Our achievements last year put us in a position of strength with relation to potential signings and setting us Up for at least the foreseeable future to have a higher level of player.
 
without doubt we've changed our tact and upped game in the sense of increased value. However, at no stage have we tried to test our direct competitors resolve in the same way other clubs do. We have the likes of Bournemouth looking at Terry, Wiltshire etc. They may not be the answer but shows potential.
 
if Jeff has no part to play in the future, why not use him as bait in a swap deal for someone like zaha? Who would undoubtedly be an improvement to our squad. Yes palace probably don't want to sell, but stick Jeff and £15m - £20m under their noes and it at least gives them a decision to make, not to mention unsettling the player. Also, like it or not they're in a relegation battle so probably can't afford to lose him to AFCON and have no replacement.
 
likewise, in the summer when we sold Kante - was the consideration ever present to take the likes of fabregas as part of the deal? Or when arsenal were after Vardy, and Giroud was clearly out of favour? We're unlikely to attract these types of players normally, but when you have sought after players as we do, then it changes what clubs are prepared to offer in exchange. Not to mention we are champions! 
 
I accept that that only lasts so long but the point is that it concerns me that we didn't even consider. 

You would value zaha at 30 million? A fool and his money are easily parted

[StanSP]

Zaha . 

Talk about ambition and then mention him as a potential target. Good one.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

The owner are very ambitious, I think our summer recruitment was poor, but that doesn't mean we aren't ambitious! One league win doesn't turn us into Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd.

 

 

 

[crazyleicester]

WTF?!!!

 

Im looking at the prem table thinking, which club has shown the most bravery and ambition in recent times? Which club has broken their transfer record a few times in the last 12 months including an approx 30m fee for a 28yo in Slimani? Which club is spending big on teenagers having added the likes of Kapustka, Gray and Ndidi in for approx 27m between them even though they werent bought to start? Which club tried to spend 25m on a central midfielder from Sporting in the summer by way of Silva? Who bid 15m plus for Michael Keane from Burnley as they want to address the future and know that Huth and Wes cant play on forever? Which club is paying players extra to keep them despite them being of top class standard and award winners like Vardy and Mahrez?

 

The OP needs a real reality check. I think we have been one of the most ambitious sides over the last 12-18 months. I have seen so many clubs who have a similar stature to us selling their better players. I also dont get the point or example on Bournemouth. We spent nearly 70m in the summer whilst Bournemouth spent a little less than Slimani cost. They also got Wiltshire on loan and want John Terry. Unfortunately its not 2007 where Terry was aged 26. Why the hell so we want Terry?! How would that be ambitious? Also how is it ambitious to have a load of loan players in? So we can make them better for someone else to take them (Harry Kane and Jesse Lingaard anyone?)

 

Also whats with this swap talk? Have you been playing Football Manager fella? If we sell Jeff to Palace as reported we can then use that money for someone else. Zaha? please. The bloke is a greedy diving bugger who is too thick to understand he has teh raw talent to be a serious player. He couldnt even hack it at United and was punted out back "home". How many England squads has this superstar made it into? I cant think of us having loads of wingers in England and he is down the pecking order. Jesus the dude cant even get in ahead of Andros Townsend who went ages without even getting a game for his relegated club side last season.

 

Its threads like this that drive me to the brink of the mental institution. Its yet another delusional fan putting his own club down. This club has grown massively over the years. We have invested in all sorts of areas with the playing staff being top of the list of our spends whilst our player retention record has been amazing. I cant believe Drinky, Vards and Mahrez are still with us and that the "Big" clubs of the prem arent reportedly breaking the bank for them. We have bought youngsters and are always linked at buying more. We are only looking to sell our rubbish this window. No offence to Jeff but he is a bit of a club laughing stock. Amazing pace but thats about it. Disastrous touch, terrible crossing and his shooting troubles row D more than it does the oppos goal. We love him as he is ours and cheer him on but lets face it, we arent losing a star player here.

 

Right, sorry for the 4000 word rant but sometimes people need a reality check. We arent Real Madrid FFS!!! 

 

 

[David Hankey]

The imminent sale of Schlupp shouldn't be seen as the Club having no ambition. Schlupp is not up to the standard required week in week out else he'd be in the team. Yes, Man U saw something him in but at the end of the day that didn't work out.

 

I agree to get £10/12M for a player on the periphery is good business, let him go to ply his trade elsewhere just like Logan at Rochdale.

[Aus Fox]

Laughable, Zaha is an expensive Lloyd Dyer, and certainly not as good as Mahrez, while Gray at this stage has more potential. Albrighton is a different type of singer, which Claudio clearly likes to play.

Whilshere isn't a bad player, but is a sick note and would have been a risk, and John Terry, seriously? Let's replace our ageing, slow centre backs with...

The other two mentioned Fabregas? Wouldn't come here in a million years, Champions or not and I would say Is on a lot more than any of our current squad.

We bought in a 30 million quid striker with Champions League and international experience, we bought in the player Claudio originally wanted ahead of Kante. 

We kept hold of Mahrez and Vardy despite interest from regular top 4 sides.

You cannot question our ambition because we are selling our 3rd choice left back or 5th choice winger!

While the recruitment with hindsight wasn't what we were hoping for, we did bring in international footballers with Experience at the highest level. 

When did you imagine we would ever spend the sort of money we spent in the summer?

How do you know we didn't try to sign others? We might actually find more players want to come next season after our name is a bit better know after CL this season.

There is nothing this season between the teams in 7th and 16th, if we can put a run together we can have a top half finish, coupled with at least last 16 in the CL. This puts us in a great position to strengthen again next summer.

 

[SPF07]

10 minutes ago, crazyleicester said:

WTF?!!!

 

Im looking at the prem table thinking, which club has shown the most bravery and ambition in recent times? Which club has broken their transfer record a few times in the last 12 months including an approx 30m fee for a 28yo in Slimani? Which club is spending big on teenagers having added the likes of Kapustka, Gray and Ndidi in for approx 27m between them even though they werent bought to start? Which club tried to spend 25m on a central midfielder from Sporting in the summer by way of Silva? Who bid 15m plus for Michael Keane from Burnley as they want to address the future and know that Huth and Wes cant play on forever? Which club is paying players extra to keep them despite them being of top class standard and award winners like Vardy and Mahrez?

 

The OP needs a real reality check. I think we have been one of the most ambitious sides over the last 12-18 months. I have seen so many clubs who have a similar stature to us selling their better players. I also dont get the point or example on Bournemouth. We spent nearly 70m in the summer whilst Bournemouth spent a little less than Slimani cost. They also got Wiltshire on loan and want John Terry. Unfortunately its not 2007 where Terry was aged 26. Why the hell so we want Terry?! How would that be ambitious? Also how is it ambitious to have a load of loan players in? So we can make them better for someone else to take them (Harry Kane and Jesse Lingaard anyone?)

 

Also whats with this swap talk? Have you been playing Football Manager fella? If we sell Jeff to Palace as reported we can then use that money for someone else. Zaha? please. The bloke is a greedy diving bugger who is too thick to understand he has teh raw talent to be a serious player. He couldnt even hack it at United and was punted out back "home". How many England squads has this superstar made it into? I cant think of us having loads of wingers in England and he is down the pecking order. Jesus the dude cant even get in ahead of Andros Townsend who went ages without even getting a game for his relegated club side last season.

 

Its threads like this that drive me to the brink of the mental institution. Its yet another delusional fan putting his own club down. This club has grown massively over the years. We have invested in all sorts of areas with the playing staff being top of the list of our spends whilst our player retention record has been amazing. I cant believe Drinky, Vards and Mahrez are still with us and that the "Big" clubs of the prem arent reportedly breaking the bank for them. We have bought youngsters and are always linked at buying more. We are only looking to sell our rubbish this window. No offence to Jeff but he is a bit of a club laughing stock. Amazing pace but thats about it. Disastrous touch, terrible crossing and his shooting troubles row D more than it does the oppos goal. We love him as he is ours and cheer him on but lets face it, we arent losing a star player here.

 

Right, sorry for the 4000 word rant but sometimes people need a reality check. We arent Real Madrid FFS!!! 

 

 

You've kind of reacted and missed the point hence I can't be bothered to reply to all.

 

no we are not Madrid and neither are the players mentioned of that level.

 

opinion on players ability such as zaha is subjective, and yes I agree he isn't worth that money but that's the reality, Jeff isn't worth what we're selling for either. But zaha is better and an improvement.

 

there are different ways of showing ambition, one is as you say and was acknowledged in the original post, which is spending lots (which for the record doesn't guarantee anything as we've witnessed on several high fee signings. But also, the type of players you pursue. Bournemouth had no right to take 2 players of the two mentioned (if it comes off) - as you say, they're not Madrid. And that's all this post was about, targeting competitors better players there attainable (or at least were at the beginning of the season and use the bargaining power of the fact these clubs are after our assets that lead us to the title.

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

45 minutes ago, Ecdysiast said:

I'd say our ambition is absolutely fine right now. 

We're not going to be challengers for the title every season and we're not going to be able to match the big boys for wages long term.

We've got a fantastic opportunity for the next couple of years to use the premiership and champions league money and status to boost our squad with youngish or long-term signings that will improve our squad beyond that of our realistic competitors. 

Little point taking on the Man City/ Arsenals / Chelseas of this world for mature players at peak value, when we can use our temporary cachet to attract top tier up and coming talent that will serve us well for the future and prolong our "punching above our weight" status as long as possible.

Buying young is the smart move for the future

 

Spot on to be honest.

[crazyleicester]

1 minute ago, SPF07 said:

You've kind of reacted and missed the point hence I can't be bothered to reply to all.

 

no we are not Madrid and neither are the players mentioned of that level.

 

opinion on players ability such as zaha is subjective, and yes I agree he isn't worth that money but that's the reality, Jeff isn't worth what we're selling for either. But zaha is better and an improvement.

 

there are different ways of showing ambition, one is as you say and was acknowledged in the original post, which is spending lots (which for the record doesn't guarantee anything as we've witnessed on several high fee signings. But also, the type of players you pursue. Bournemouth had no right to take 2 players of the two mentioned (if it comes off) - as you say, they're not Madrid. And that's all this post was about, targeting competitors better players there attainable (or at least were at the beginning of the season and use the bargaining power of the fact these clubs are after our assets that lead us to the title.

 

 

You are making less sense then you did before mate.

 

Wilshire is an amazing signing for Bournemouth because they are one of the prems smallest clubs in so many ways. Lets face it, they didnt get an in form superstar like Ozil or Sanchez. They got a lad who has hardly played much football and is plagued by injuries. He didnt even start the season in their team but is getting game time now. Has he torn the prem up? Has he hell!! He has been very average IMO. No goals and one assist and this is meant to be an attacking midfielder. If he was the Wilshire at his peak, Arsenal would not be loaning him out. If he flies and becomes a wonder player he wont be staying at Bournemouth. I still dont get the loan talk. I also dont get why you are talking about John Terry like he is any good or an ambitious transfer, It isnt as he is what, 36?

 

As for targeting competitors players its another point I dont understand. If you want to buy a top player from a competitor then they come with loads of baggage and cost loads of money. If we buy from leagues like France and Portugal we have a better chance of keeping the fee a bit lower. We did try to but Keane from a rival in Burnley but they wanted Mickey Mouse money.

 

The point I was making was we go and get what we want. Whether its Vardy from Fleetwood, Slimani from Sporting Lisbon or Musa from Russia. Im sure we have no transfer policy of avoiding prem clubs but we arent stupid enough to be held to ransom for players based at a prem club. I also suppose I took issue with a thread which is basically being critical to a club that is unrecognisable to the club I can remember down the years. Even 2 years ago I remember us having some very average players and now we are good enough to have players linked to Barca, Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal and them staying with us, another goes to Chelsea and our reserves are now wanted by fellow Prem clubs for there first team.

 

If that a sign of our growth and how ambitious this club is then Im not sure what is. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

We spent £70 million in the summer. Granted, we could have spent it more wisely but I don't question the club's ambition. Decision making maybe, but not the ambition. 

Pre Ndiddi we had a net spend of 30m from the summer. A paltry amount for a CL team, and Champions of England. 

 

That to me showed a lack of ambition which has reaped its 'rewards' in a shit first half of the season. 

[STUHILL]

I'm all for ambition but players like Fabregas and Giroud would never come here, unless in the last year or so of their careers, e.g Cambiasso. Wilshire was a weird one, and took everyone by shock and is against the norm, but also trying to sign players like Zaha from relegation rivals, just isn't at all realistic and the only reason we are selling Schlupp, is because he doesn't even make the bench for us anymore. Zaha starts for them every week! 

Also, just because we don't hear of attempts to land players like Wilshire on loan, doesn't mean that these discussions aren't going on in the background. A phonecall from Rudkin could have been made about Wilshire and simply rejected due to him wanting to work with Howe or something. It's too easy to suggest we are simply not being ambitious enough. We are limited (even being Champions!) by the appeal of a club, our size and our location and history of success or lack of in League. Players still see us more of a relegation scrapper, than regularly pushing for top 6. 

I am sure we are just as ambitious as all the other clubs out there, but we have to have realistic ambition and work within the limits we currently have. 

[Sir Shep]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

Wilshere!!!!!

 

Why do so many people call him Wiltshire? 

Auto connect. 

[BigMicky]

Is this guy serious? Giroud and Fabregas ?? Why in god's name would either want to join us? It's so unrealistic it's laughable. Let's not forget who we are.

[BenTheFox]

12 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Pre Ndiddi we had a net spend of 30m from the summer. A paltry amount for a CL team, and Champions of England. 

 

That to me showed a lack of ambition which has reaped its 'rewards' in a shit first half of the season. 

Don't forget that we kept hold of all our players except Kante, many of whom have signed bigger deals. Our record transfer fee as gone from £8m to £29.5m in two years. 

[BigMicky]

1 minute ago, BenTheFox said:

Don't forget that we kept hold of all our players except Kante, many of whom have signed bigger deals. Our record transfer fee as gone from £8m to £29.5m in two years. 

Excellent point, if that's not ambition I don't know what is.

 

[AmarteyAndChill]

1 hour ago, Ecdysiast said:

I'd say our ambition is absolutely fine right now. 

We're not going to be challengers for the title every season and we're not going to be able to match the big boys for wages long term.

We've got a fantastic opportunity for the next couple of years to use the premiership and champions league money and status to boost our squad with youngish or long-term signings that will improve our squad beyond that of our realistic competitors. 

Little point taking on the Man City/ Arsenals / Chelseas of this world for mature players at peak value, when we can use our temporary cachet to attract top tier up and coming talent that will serve us well for the future and prolong our "punching above our weight" status as long as possible.

Buying young is the smart move for the future

 

We have used our status to attract young, promising talent such as Ndidi,Amartey,Kaspustka,Gray. We are using our success to build for the future. I think this is clever.

[Old Fox]

2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

He does 1 good thing in 6 games and then downs tools until the next time the fans slate him. He is pish. Swapping in Zaha defeats the point of binning Schlupp altogether. At least with Schlupp you get a utility player and great comedic timing.

You clearly have not watched either player this season.

 

i rate Schlupp higher than most but even I have been disappointed with his attitude especially in Porto. As for Zaha he has consistently been quality week in and week out for Palace....all irrelevant as neither will play for us!

[Sharpe's Fox]

5 minutes ago, Old Fox said:

You clearly have not watched either player this season.

 

i rate Schlupp higher than most but even I have been disappointed with his attitude especially in Porto. As for Zaha he has consistently been quality week in and week out for Palace....all irrelevant as neither will play for us!

Mate I don't think Schlupp is good. No one does.

[BigMicky]

1 minute ago, Old Fox said:

You clearly have not watched either player this season.

 

i rate Schlupp higher than most but even I have been disappointed with his attitude especially in Porto. As for Zaha he has consistently been quality week in and week out for Palace....all irrelevant as neither will play for us!

Are you judging Zaha on MOTD highlights? Nzogbia used to be a worldld beater as well.......

[hackneyfox]

So many keep describing our recent signings as mistakes but we'd have spent an awful lot more on premier players who may have made a quicker impact.

 

Amartey, Mendy, Slimani and Musa have all shown improvement recently.

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Mate I don't think Schlupp is good. No one does.

Errr... I do, or at least I think he could be. Not that I know much  

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, SPF07 said:

And Jeff demands £12m why? 

Because that's what the market dictates. Same reasons for a kid from league one fetching £11m. Or strikers with one good season in the championship going for £10-£15m.

 

 

[Leamington Fox]

12 hours ago, crazyleicester said:

WTF?!!!

 

Im looking at the prem table thinking, which club has shown the most bravery and ambition in recent times? Which club has broken their transfer record a few times in the last 12 months including an approx 30m fee for a 28yo in Slimani? Which club is spending big on teenagers having added the likes of Kapustka, Gray and Ndidi in for approx 27m between them even though they werent bought to start? Which club tried to spend 25m on a central midfielder from Sporting in the summer by way of Silva? Who bid 15m plus for Michael Keane from Burnley as they want to address the future and know that Huth and Wes cant play on forever? Which club is paying players extra to keep them despite them being of top class standard and award winners like Vardy and Mahrez?

 

The OP needs a real reality check. I think we have been one of the most ambitious sides over the last 12-18 months. I have seen so many clubs who have a similar stature to us selling their better players. I also dont get the point or example on Bournemouth. We spent nearly 70m in the summer whilst Bournemouth spent a little less than Slimani cost. They also got Wiltshire on loan and want John Terry. Unfortunately its not 2007 where Terry was aged 26. Why the hell so we want Terry?! How would that be ambitious? Also how is it ambitious to have a load of loan players in? So we can make them better for someone else to take them (Harry Kane and Jesse Lingaard anyone?)

 

Also whats with this swap talk? Have you been playing Football Manager fella? If we sell Jeff to Palace as reported we can then use that money for someone else. Zaha? please. The bloke is a greedy diving bugger who is too thick to understand he has teh raw talent to be a serious player. He couldnt even hack it at United and was punted out back "home". How many England squads has this superstar made it into? I cant think of us having loads of wingers in England and he is down the pecking order. Jesus the dude cant even get in ahead of Andros Townsend who went ages without even getting a game for his relegated club side last season.

 

Its threads like this that drive me to the brink of the mental institution. Its yet another delusional fan putting his own club down. This club has grown massively over the years. We have invested in all sorts of areas with the playing staff being top of the list of our spends whilst our player retention record has been amazing. I cant believe Drinky, Vards and Mahrez are still with us and that the "Big" clubs of the prem arent reportedly breaking the bank for them. We have bought youngsters and are always linked at buying more. We are only looking to sell our rubbish this window. No offence to Jeff but he is a bit of a club laughing stock. Amazing pace but thats about it. Disastrous touch, terrible crossing and his shooting troubles row D more than it does the oppos goal. We love him as he is ours and cheer him on but lets face it, we arent losing a star player here.

 

Right, sorry for the 4000 word rant but sometimes people need a reality check. We arent Real Madrid FFS!!! 

 

 

100% agree with this.  Thanks for saving my typing.  What a preposterous suggestion that our club lack ambition.  I can't think of better owners we could wish for.  I also think that if we recklessly chucked silly money around, we'd end up with some faded superstars, greedy for more wealth, who would upset the precious balance and team spirit.