If we switch back to 4-4-2

[Nod.E]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

The problems are so much bigger than Kante going and have been from day one. Burnley play 442 and currently perform at a much higher level than us. Mainly down to the fact they are motivated players giving everything.

 

Our tackle starts are down all over the pitch, alarmingly so in some cases. Kante being there or not shouldn't suddenly make someone else capable of tackling and then not being able to this season. Lack of effort and commitment can though.

 

We somehow need to get this lot motivated.

Yep.

 

Looking at the fixture list it's going to get worse before it gets better.

 

By the time our fixture list settles we'll most likely be right in the mix for relegation. My hope is that this will give our players a necessary, and timely, kick up the proverbial.

 

We'll have a motivated bunch coming up against average sides, which should be enough to see us safe.

 

Great escape mark II? I do hope so. Hopefully we are able to rebuild from there and ride that momentum wave again.

[MPH]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

In his post-match interview yesterday Ranieri basically told the rest of the division how we're going to play from now on - ie, using the formation that has been failing so badly for much of the season. They must be licking their lips. The 4-4-2 worked so well last season because we had Kante in midfield. He did the work of two men, effectively giving us a three-man central midfield, plus two wingers and two strikers. This was a major factor in our title win. Without Kante it simply hasn't worked as well. Unless one of Amartey, Ndidi or Mendy can somehow replicate Kante's energy and work rate, we'll just go back to getting overrun in midfield and losing games as a result. Ranieri's suggestion that the players are incapable of playing any other formation is deeply, deeply worrying.

 

 

Ndidi is not Kante. yet, but i feel a midfield two will work better with him than without him...

[Fox92]

Formations don't win games. Formations come second.

 

The players don't look interested or motivated and when that's not there then it doesn't matter what we do.

[foxy boxing]

the players are clearly finding it difficult to comprehend what Claudio is asking them to do. some players like Mendy for example clearly do not understand their role within the team and what they are supposed to do. we have brought in young players and they need educating and specifically told their role within the team or they will just look lost on the football field and fans will blame them when clearly they are failing to understand the instructions given(if they are being given) to them.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

I can't remember a time when a diamond has ever worked for us (going back to Sunday's game) - it was a very strange decision and a step to far - but I guess that means someone out there somewhere is listening (or reading )

 

I think our best shout now is playing into what teams know about us - we're weak, aka, back to counter attacking, it's not like the start of the season where teams were scared of us and parking the bus, now we're a laughing stock and teams will have a go at us again and put the pressure on. So let's go with a flat back four with our centre mids dropping a bit deeper to DM positions - Mahrez and Albrighton/Gray on the flank and counter the hell out of teams when we win the ball back.

 

It's not pretty having two holding mids, but if we can use the flanks to overlap and launch counter attacks we could nick enough wins to stay up.

 

EDIT - Technically we have a decent target man as well in Slimani now as well, we didnt have that last year so it should work better.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

The problems are so much bigger than Kante going and have been from day one. Burnley play 442 and currently perform at a much higher level than us. Mainly down to the fact they are motivated players giving everything.

 

Our tackle starts are down all over the pitch, alarmingly so in some cases. Kante being there or not shouldn't suddenly make someone else capable of tackling and then not being able to this season. Lack of effort and commitment can though.

 

We somehow need to get this lot motivated.

Indeed. The unfortunate problem is that our best players won't go down with the ship.

 

The ability of underachieving 'star' players to leave a relegated team and the next season remind everyone of how good they actually are, but with another team, is galling.

[Guest Col city fan]

I think Kante leaving has had a HUGE impact on how we play. But this is well documented.

I also agree with Babylon. Our problems run much deeper than just losing this one player. Much deeper.

We could revert to 442 but let's face it, we got annihilated in some games with that formation. 

I don't know where we go from here. We need some sort of spark, a bit of luck, a key signing, something. 

Yet another formation change, I fear, will be just papering over the cracks.

[st albans fox]

there are too many reasons for our demise.

 

but kante - everyone speaks about his work rate. but does he cover more ground than other players?  I don't believe so. his main defensive strength is his ability to read the game and know where to be  ( a bit like a striker who always seems to find himself in space inside the six yard box to score). gives the impression that he is everywhere when that isn't the case. he is just where the ball is so you notice him. we miss his breaking forward beyond the 'gain line' and also his ability to play a first time pass with pace to catch the opposition off guard and enable us to break ahead of their midfield cover.  no way can another player be expected to replicate kante from last season.   

 

so we can survive 4-4 against opposition who play 4-4 (at home we may get away with 2 v 3 in the middle). to play 2 v 3 away from home is ludicrous, whatever the standard of opposition.  we have won a game 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1 which is closer to how it is) away from home so should persevere with it.

 

I assume Claudio is just saying what he has in order to move on and take the rap on behalf of the players.  too many standing off because they aren't sure if anyone is covering their backs if they commit to closing down and possibly being beaten. that makes the balls coming in of a higher standard as players have more time to make their cross. 

[Guest Col city fan]

4 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Indeed. The unfortunate problem is that our best players won't go down with the ship.

 

The ability of underachieving 'star' players to leave a relegated team and the next season remind everyone of how good they actually are, but with another team, is galling.

 

[tylesta]

2 hours ago, lcfcdamo said:

U cant expect to play Okazaki has cam when he has no creativity wots so ever 

you wot mate?

[Babylon]

23 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I think Kante leaving has had a HUGE impact on how we play. But this is well documented.

I also agree with Babylon. Our problems run much deeper than just losing this one player. Much deeper.

We could revert to 442 but let's face it, we got annihilated in some games with that formation. 

I don't know where we go from here. We need some sort of spark, a bit of luck, a key signing, something. 

Yet another formation change, I fear, will be just papering over the cracks.

I think we can get any formation to work if the players are given the correct roles to make the system work and they all apply themselves.

 

Changing where you put players won't change anything if their roles aren't defined correctly. Take yesterday... If we're going to load the team with defensive centre mids and a defensive Striker like Okazaki, then you need to release full backs. I looked at the team yesterday and it the only truly creative player in the whole starting 11 was Gray, and he's a kid still learning. If you won't get the full backs on there's no width, no overlaps.

 

No formation will work unless Ranieri starts asking and telling them to do the right things.

 

 

[Rialto 290352]

Like many others I think we need to shore up our defence and avoid conceding goals.  That means we need two central midfield players at home and three away.  So that would be 442 at home again and 451 away.  At least that limits the damage to some degree.  However the real problem remains a lack of motivation.  Perhaps the entire first choice defence have their best days behind them.  We must bring in two central defenders or register Benny and bring in one more?  At least there would be some energy then.  Preference should be given to younger players who, hopefully, have more motivation and more to prove?  We not only need to stop conceding so many goals we also must improve the number of chances we create.  As it is our strikers  may as well not be on the pitch for most of the time.  

[WinslowFox]

If we play 4-4-2 and don't bring anyone else in, could we play something like:

 

Schmeichel

 

Simpson

Ndidi

Amartey

Chilwell

 

Gray

Drinkwater

Mendy

Mahrez

 

Slimani

Vardy

[lcfcdamo]

1 hour ago, tylesta said:

you wot mate?

I mean against Southampton Okazaki played has an attacking midfielder but he has no creativity in his game so i really cant understand why he played him there 

[kingfox]

Still don't get why he changed it after our win against Everton, away from home against which was a strong Everton line up, 4-3-3 worked that day so why change a winning formula.

 

4-2-3-1 against West Ham worked, kept a clean sheet, got the win and especially first half we looked more fluid playing that. I'd revert back to that when Mahrez & Slimani return.

 

4-4-2 has worked on a few occasions, but when it hasn't which has been like 80% of the time we've been absolutely spanked, embarrassed. I really can't see us winning especially away from home with that formation.

[brucey]

Happy to revert to 442 for the rest of the season since the players play best in that formation, regardless of whether they should be able to adapt to other formations.

All of the 442 losses were without our first choice midfield (and many without our first choice keeper) plus we have Ndidi now so let's give it another go, we don't have much choice.

[ozvaldo]

4-4-2 won't change anything, we started this season like that, and, in my eyes, it's how we'll get relegated.

Kante leaving was huge.  But the staff should have learned to how be successful without him.  We didn't change anything for the start of this season - it's only up until the last few games that he's tried different formations which haven't worked straight away (shock) and so he's panicked and decided to go back to his usual predictable line up.  I bet Andy '5 yards straight back to you' King will be back in the starting 11 soon.  

On top of that, as a manager, you have to learn how to instil drive and hunger into your players after they have achieved the impossible.  I don't think there are many people who can achieve that quickly & successfully, especially with today's breed of player who are ridiculously well paid and already think they are more important than God before winning the league, or coming anywhere near to doing so.  They've done something exceptional together in the league - so what will motivate them?  It looks like the CL is the only thing we are up for.  It's the only unknown for this group.  It's a new bar to reach.

 

I think what we need now is someone who can instil grit / fight quickly and make us very hard to break down.  Even if we grind out boring 1-1 draws, it will be better than getting turned over by teams we would have smashed last season.
I still think this group of players can stay up, and probably finish 10th quite easily.  However, under Ranieri, I don't think we'll see much fight from this squad - it feels like he's lost the dressing room.  The board wont sack him right now, but I fear it will be too late by the time they decide to do anything.

 

Such a shame after the season of our lives.  

 

We better fûcking beat Derby!

[STUHILL]

I am guilty of advocating for a 4-3-3 for last few months. Really thought an extra man in midfield to protect the back four, was exactly what we needed, as well as a front 3 to get the best out of players like Mahrez, Gray and Musa. 

 

Seeing how badly the players reacted to this change, even though the diamond in midfield is not something I would have done personally, has made me have a serious rethink. 

 

It seems like the only solution now is to revert to a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1. 

 

Even though it has failed all season, changing from this formation has only added to the player's problems an shown their inability to adapt. They looked confused out there yesterday. 

 

If we are going to stick with the 4-4-2 though, then we still desperately need to sign some defenders. 2 CB's ideally, as although Amartey and N'didi can cover there, I still don't think either will be the solution over the next 6 months. Long-term perhaps.

 

We also need a genuine no.10 or at least a CM who can drive and run with the ball and create things. 

 

So I am chucking my beloved 4-3-3 out the window and switching to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with a number 10.

 

---------------------------------Schmeichel----------------------------

Simpson-----------New CB-------------New CB-----------Chilwell

Mahrez------------Drinkwater----------N'didi-----------Albrighton

----------------------Slimani--------------Vardy-----------------------

 

Playing this system means each player has to work their bollocks off, otherwise they get dropped for someone who will, even if it means throwing players like Kaputska in, just to get a player who has hunger and desire again and willing to run themselves into the ground like we did every game last season. 

[teblin]

This may have already been said but we played 4-3-3 away at Everton and won. Don't get why he changed that team

[foxes21]

Vardy/Slimani have to be rotating at CF for me, depending on opposition. Against top 6/possession/cl teams, Vardy plays. Against team wanting to sit deep or games when we have more of the ball, Slimani plays. Play to both these players strengths, they are match winners.

 

Desperately need a CAM though. If its Ramirez, i'd have Ramirez/King/Okazaki competing for the number 10 role.

[murphy]

The problem is that the team is not functioning.  No change of formation or new signing will change that.

 

Last year the team was greater than the sum of it's parts. this year it is less than the sum of it's parts.  I don't know what the answer is but then nor does Claudio.  I think that last year was the pinnacle of these player's careers and nothing was ever going to top that again.  Perhaps subconsciously they think that they have achieved as much as they ever will and have gone into some kind of semi-retirement.

 

...Well that's my theory anyway.

 

ANd by the way, it is nothing to do with Kante.  Our problems are all over the pitch. 

[foxes21]

We need our wingers to tuck in narrow, like they did last season so the CM's don't get overrun. Congest the middle. We don't seem to be doing that this season, when we've tried to play 4-4-1-1 and Simpson/Fuchs have been caught higher up the pitch. 

[USFox]

                                             

---------------------------------Schmeichel----------------------------

Simpson-----------Huth------------Morgan-----------Fuchs

------------------------------Amartey-----------------------------------

-------------Drinkwater---------------------Ndidi

Mahrez------------------------------------------------------Albrighton

------------------------------Slimani-------------------------------------

 

Amartey would play as a CB/DM right in front of the defenders and Drinkwater/Ndidi would play the facilitator roles and track back. What do you guys think? I think Amartey staying back would help provide our defenders with coverage and create more fluidity between the Midfield and Defense so we hold on to the ball more.

[chicagofox]

The formation is a complete red herring.  It's the performances of both players and manager that have been the problem.

[fazzyfox]

1 hour ago, USFox said:

                                             

---------------------------------Schmeichel----------------------------

Simpson-----------Huth------------Morgan-----------Fuchs

------------------------------Amartey-----------------------------------

-------------Drinkwater---------------------Ndidi

Mahrez------------------------------------------------------Albrighton

------------------------------Slimani-------------------------------------

 

Amartey would play as a CB/DM right in front of the defenders and Drinkwater/Ndidi would play the facilitator roles and track back. What do you guys think? I think Amartey staying back would help provide our defenders with coverage and create more fluidity between the Midfield and Defense so we hold on to the ball more.

The position you have Amartey in is an area we totally conceded to Southampton on Sunday, they had time and space to put out a Picnic and still score and we didn't learn from it. Someone, at least one, has to be there, at times we had seven players in a straight line level with the penalty spot (and I don't mean when defending a set piece). I don't know how vocal captain Morgan was about this gaping hole of space but then again if they were following or trying to follow new orders from Ranieri maybe it was too hard for him to identify who was at fault. I don't encourage players to lose their head but it like a passive non contact sport as we watched them stroke it around us, if you lose 3-0 you'd expect the midfield three to be getting stuck in and coming off the pitch like they'd given everything. Generally Southampton steered the ball out wide where we had no cover then back across into the middle as we stampeded back into our box like a herd of Wilderbeast trying to escape from a Lion, not even having to pick a way through us just identifying where the huge gaps were. Amartey may well be the one who will put his foot in and cover that space in front of the centre halves who we can't risk getting drawn out.