MC Prussian Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: If his comments are no problem, maybe we should apply them more widely? I think I've made it quite clear on numerous occasions that I have my issues with Trump (and his Tweets), but that Democrats cry "racist" way too easily these days, they even attack one another under that pretense (AOC on Warren, for instance). The general gist for me is that the POTUSA is responsible for dealing with issues regarding the US first, that includes border control and border patrol. Overall, the US are a (very) safe place to live, a place to prosper, otherwise you wouldn't have so many (illegal) immigrants trying to seek shelter there still. The "No Border" argument proposed by some Democrats is ludicrous, it is a state's own right to control who gains entry and whom does not. This is not a case of being responsible for other people's actions, past or present, Trump made the (badly worded) attempt at trying to point out that there are places much worse off than the US at this moment, Somalia for instance. It's more a case of people being a bit more reasonable and thankful for having been able to evade that conflict and settle in the USA. That also means you'd need to know more of the backstory between Trump and his Democrat critics. Funny side fact: Trump's grandfather was prevented from re-settling in Germany, as he had failed to de-register himself when he first went to the US in 1885... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/21/trump-grandfather-friedrich-banished-germany-historian-royal-decree Edited 15 July 2019 by MC Prussian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 Seems to me that Trump presumed that because the particular individuals are not white that they must have been born in some shithole rather than within his great country’s own borders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Trump doesnt like those congresswomen because of what they think and say. He just doesnt care about political correctness Yep this 'not being racist towards other people' thing is political correctness gone mad. 1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: That 12% is higher than it was when he won the election. Less unemployment and less black people on food stamps since he came into office. That rating will go up and black people have been very loyal to the dems for decades so its no mean feat It's still a really shit approval rating though... You can see that, right? 1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Those points you suggest about what he's done that is bad are by no means objective bad policies, there is more nuance to those subjects There is no nuance to global warming or the fact that Trump has shown absolute disdain for doing something about it. Only febrile sheep still toe the big oil line of 'maybe it's all just a coincidence' at the expense of their own children and grandchildren. That goes doubly for anyone who isn't one of the oligarchs actually benefiting from the destruction of natural resources. 1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: The far right thing is just bollocks Yes it is. Bollocks to the far right, right on man. 1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Didnt see anyone coming on here condemning violence from antifa types When Andy Ngo got beaten up none of the lefties on here gave a shit. Says it all I'm not sure I've seen anyone mention it on here until this comment? Contrary to your opinion most people find violence reprehensible regardless of who's doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Yep this 'not being racist towards other people' thing is political correctness gone mad. It's still a really shit approval rating though... You can see that, right? There is no nuance to global warming or the fact that Trump has shown absolute disdain for doing something about it. Only febrile sheep still toe the big oil line of 'maybe it's all just a coincidence' at the expense of their own children and grandchildren. That goes doubly for anyone who isn't one of the oligarchs actually benefiting from the destruction of natural resources. Yes it is. Bollocks to the far right, right on man. I'm not sure I've seen anyone mention it on here until this comment? Contrary to your opinion most people find violence reprehensible regardless of who's doing it. Ok then It was discussed on here, just not much because many werent interested in it Edited 15 July 2019 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 5 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Ok then It was discussed on here, just not much because many werent interested in it @ me next time you need somebody left of centre to confirm that violent thugs are cvnts. It's no more difficult for me than condemning blatant racism from one of the most powerful men in the world. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 Some days it just really hits you at the absurdity of this racist idiot being president He is just such a piece of shit, it is difficult to get more piece of shitty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alf Bentley Posted 15 July 2019 Popular Post Share Posted 15 July 2019 15 minutes ago, MC Prussian said: I think I made it quite clear on numerous occasions that I have my issues with Trump (and his Tweets), but that Democrats cry "racist" way too easily these days, they even attack one another under that pretense (AOC on Warren, for instance). The general gist for me is that the POTUSA is responsible for dealing with issues regarding the US first, that includes border control and border patrol. Overall, the US are a (very) safe place to live, a place to prosper, otherwise you wouldn't have so many (illegal) immigrants trying to seek shelter there still. The "No Border" argument proposed by some Democrats is ludicrous, it is a state's own right to control who gains entry and whom does not. This is not a case of being responsible for other people's actions, past or present, Trump made the (badly worded) attempt at trying to point out that there are places much worse off than the US at this moment, Somalia for instance. It's more a case of people being a bit more reasonable and thankful for having been able to evade that conflict and settle in the USA. That also means you'd need to know more of the backstory between Trump and his Democrat critics. It's the job of the President to deal with US issues first - and it's the job of the 4 Congresswomen to deal with US issues first, which is what they've been doing. Of course, anyone is free to criticise the policies or actions of either Trump or the Democratic Congresswomen. I'm not getting into that as I don't follow US politics closely. What is unacceptable is to suggest that, instead of addressing US politics, elected US representatives with a family connection to other countries should first "go back and help fix" the countries "they originally came from". As I understand it, all four women are US citizens and three were born in the US. I've no idea how far back the black Congresswoman's family go in the USA, but it could easily go back further than Trump's as he had a non-American parent and four non-American grandparents. There is comedy value in suggesting that Trump should "go back and help fix" Germany or Scotland because his family came from there, as he's blatantly an American. Similarly, who would take seriously a suggestion that Boris be sent back to deal with US problems as he "originally came from there"? I've never even heard anyone seriously suggest that Gisela Stuart shouldn't have been involved in the Brexit campaign, but should have "gone back" to Germany, where she "originally came from".....and she has less of a connection to the UK than any of the 4 Congresswomen have to the USA, as she only arrived as an adult. There isn't such comedy value in suggesting that 4 black, brown or Hispanic women should "go back and help fix....where they originally came from". Because it is dog-whistle racism - and intended as such. Hence, Mr. Alloverthefloor, why I "disingenuously" linked it to the comments of the NF supporter I mentioned. Comments that blacks/Asians/Muslims/foreigners should "go back....where they originally came from" are commonplace among white racists. It's no accident that Trump uses language like this. It's dog-whistle stuff to appeal to those among his white base who do not accept black/brown/Latino people as being as American as white Americans. Of course, Prussian, you brush it off as just "badly worded"......but he makes a habit of "badly worded" comments, doesn't he? Remember his comments about Mexican migrants: "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists - and some, I assume, are good people". For a bloke smart enough to get elected President against all the odds, he "words things badly" by mistake an awful lot, doesn't he? Still, I know you always like to think the best of people......well, not all people, Trump & Yaxley-Lennon, mainly. I see the blessed Theresa disagrees with you and has called Trump's comments "completely unacceptable".....but I know she's some sort of Far Left type to you lads! 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleFox Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 (edited) I agree that sometimes people call racist too early and that sometimes "identity politics" can be dangerous but to assume someone is from antoher country (and a "catastropic" one at that) because they are not white is absolutely fvcking racist. X Edited 15 July 2019 by RumbleFox 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleFox Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 "Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came". In this quote is he talking about the country Cincinnati or Detroit? X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 Identity politics is an incredibly dumb phrase that is basically meaningless and serves only to try and undermine or discredit candidates coming from outside the male/pale orthodoxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 28 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Identity politics is an incredibly dumb phrase that is basically meaningless and serves only to try and undermine or discredit candidates coming from outside the male/pale orthodoxy. It's also continuous hilarious that the ones who think they are railing against it have completely fallen for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detroit Blues Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 The ideology of America is that no matter how you or your ancestors got here, when you become an American citizen, you're one of us. Your family being here for generations entitles you to nothing that being over here for one generation does not. We have no nobility. Nobody is born into an economic class that they cannot escape from. The fact that AOC can go to school, work as a bartender and become a congresswomen, is part of what makes our country "great." For Trump to claim that she, or any other american citizen is less american, or that they must "go back to their country" is not only racist, it's un-american. This is something that both sides of the political spectrum should be able to agree on. Donald Trump's words and his actions lack the decorum of the President of the United States, and his presidency erodes the common values that we as a society share. 1 hour ago, RumbleFox said: "Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came". In this quote is he talking about the country Cincinnati or Detroit? X Keep my city out of your mouth 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mister Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 Donald Trump is an out-and-out racist. Anyone who defends him is also a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 Neither Boris or Hunt can actually say it was racist Because it wasnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 11 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Neither Boris or Hunt can actually say it was racist Because it wasnt They know their audience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 https://spectator.us/trump-go-back-where/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: It's the job of the President to deal with US issues first - and it's the job of the 4 Congresswomen to deal with US issues first, which is what they've been doing. Of course, anyone is free to criticise the policies or actions of either Trump or the Democratic Congresswomen. I'm not getting into that as I don't follow US politics closely. What is unacceptable is to suggest that, instead of addressing US politics, elected US representatives with a family connection to other countries should first "go back and help fix" the countries "they originally came from". As I understand it, all four women are US citizens and three were born in the US. I've no idea how far back the black Congresswoman's family go in the USA, but it could easily go back further than Trump's as he had a non-American parent and four non-American grandparents. There is comedy value in suggesting that Trump should "go back and help fix" Germany or Scotland because his family came from there, as he's blatantly an American. Similarly, who would take seriously a suggestion that Boris be sent back to deal with US problems as he "originally came from there"? I've never even heard anyone seriously suggest that Gisela Stuart shouldn't have been involved in the Brexit campaign, but should have "gone back" to Germany, where she "originally came from".....and she has less of a connection to the UK than any of the 4 Congresswomen have to the USA, as she only arrived as an adult. There isn't such comedy value in suggesting that 4 black, brown or Hispanic women should "go back and help fix....where they originally came from". Because it is dog-whistle racism - and intended as such. Hence, Mr. Alloverthefloor, why I "disingenuously" linked it to the comments of the NF supporter I mentioned. Comments that blacks/Asians/Muslims/foreigners should "go back....where they originally came from" are commonplace among white racists. It's no accident that Trump uses language like this. It's dog-whistle stuff to appeal to those among his white base who do not accept black/brown/Latino people as being as American as white Americans. Of course, Prussian, you brush it off as just "badly worded"......but he makes a habit of "badly worded" comments, doesn't he? Remember his comments about Mexican migrants: "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists - and some, I assume, are good people". For a bloke smart enough to get elected President against all the odds, he "words things badly" by mistake an awful lot, doesn't he? Still, I know you always like to think the best of people......well, not all people, Trump & Yaxley-Lennon, mainly. I see the blessed Theresa disagrees with you and has called Trump's comments "completely unacceptable".....but I know she's some sort of Far Left type to you lads! The four congresswomen in particular, two of them at least, do little to nothing to advance the US, they are advancing their own agenda. They are not helping, and part of the problem. The problem being that Democrats are currently still refusing to spend more money on the US-Mexico border infrastructure, aid and shelter for the thousands of migrants from the South. And again, Trump said "go back and fix the terribly broken and crime-infested places they come from". You're starting to misquote him, too. There's nothing wrong with the President telling congresswomen to take care of their own district first, on a second level - and in the case of Omar only - a country of origin which is way worse off than the US of A. That the four congresswomen are of mixed race is but a byproduct of his criticism, Trump has done the same with white people, such as Paul Ryan, a Republican. Fact is these four congresswomen in particular have terrible political ideas and use a rhetoric that is equally as divisive as some of what the POTUSA lets out. I don't see the racist part in his Tweet, I think you can make the case of it being xenophobic in parts. And again, we're debating a Tweet. A Tweet. As far as his "rapists" comments on Mexican a few years ago, weren't those aimed at ILLEGAL immigrants? Germany and Scotland don't need fixing. They don't suffer from high crime rates, drug trafficking, poverty or (neighborhood) war. So, your comparison pales absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magictv Posted 15 July 2019 Share Posted 15 July 2019 (edited) . Edited 15 July 2019 by Magictv cba 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48997008 "It doesn't concern me because many people agree with me." That's really the nub and the crux of it - often perception is the most important thing and it can be perceived that the remarks were racially charged as much as one likes, there are those who will not stop, never stop, thinking that they were not and even if they were it wouldn't matter. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48998696 About the right response. Don't expect civility for you will be shown none, just keep on keeping on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 2 hours ago, MC Prussian said: And again, Trump said "go back and fix the terribly broken and crime-infested places they come from". You're starting to misquote him, too. There's nothing wrong with the President telling congresswomen to take care of their own district first, on a second level - and in the case of Omar only - a country of origin which is way worse off than the US of A. If you're worried about the accuracy of quotes, here's the relevant section (my bold): "So interesting to see 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the US, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done". He refers to their "countries" of origin, then goes on to lambast the govts of those countries in comparison to the US, before suggesting they go back to these "broken and crime infested places from which they came". Yet you somehow deduce that he's referring to "their own district"? So, in the case of Ocasio Cortez, the "broken and crime infested place" he's referring to is New York, where he came from himself? And why would he be interested in the districts of 3 of them, but only the country of origin of Omar? Anyway, Somalia is a horrendous mess.....but Omar is now a US citizen & elected US representative. 2 hours ago, MC Prussian said: That the four congresswomen are of mixed race is but a byproduct of his criticism, Trump has done the same with white people, such as Paul Ryan, a Republican. I don't see the racist part in his Tweet, I think you can make the case of it being xenophobic in parts. And again, we're debating a Tweet. A Tweet. Here's Wikipedia with a history of his racial views, including his prosecution for housing discrimination against black renters, his long campaign suggesting that Obama wasn't born in America and his rape accusations against black men proven to be innocent after a confession from someone else was confirmed by DNA evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump Yeah, just a non-racist bloke who keeps expressing himself clumsily and thinks people should look after their own districts..... 2 hours ago, MC Prussian said: As far as his "rapists" comments on Mexican a few years ago, weren't those aimed at ILLEGAL immigrants? Even if his comments against Mexicans / Central Americans were aimed at illegal immigrants (cannot confirm either way), his clear insinuation that most are rapists & drug dealers is untrue. Obviously, some are criminals. But most illegal immigrants go to the USA to work - often in crappy jobs that are low-paid by US standards, but offer a better living than available back home. Of course, illegal immigration itself is a valid issue to raise. But implying that most immigrants from Mexico, or even most illegal immigrants, are rapists & drug dealers was blatantly dishonest - & clear, deliberate racism 2 hours ago, MC Prussian said: Germany and Scotland don't need fixing. They don't suffer from high crime rates, drug trafficking, poverty or (neighborhood) war. So, your comparison pales absolutely. I heard there was a certain amount of crime, poverty and drug trafficking in the Scottish central belt. Send Trump back to the country he "originally came from" to "fix [that] total broken and crime infested place", I say! I wonder which country he thinks Congresswoman Pressley "originally came from" and should "go back and help fix"? She's a black American so I'm guessing she has slave ancestry? Has Trump identified which modern African country her slave ancestors were brought from? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 Why does the Republican party do nothing to control this lunatic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 9 minutes ago, ozleicester said: Why does the Republican party do nothing to control this lunatic? It's gone beyond that now, I don't think they can. Much of his base are loyal to him rather than the party and so if they try they know the probable split will mean they get destroyed at an election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: It's gone beyond that now, I don't think they can. Much of his base are loyal to him rather than the party and so if they try they know the probable split will mean they get destroyed at an election. Wrong though.. in the past they had some members with the guts to stand up about his hate, now they have folded and they have gone with him.... This time, Republicans were very slow to respond — or even encouraging. ...."Republican senator Lindsey Graham backed the substance of the President's comments, but suggested tackling policy issues would be a better approach". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 5 minutes ago, ozleicester said: Wrong though.. in the past they had some members with the guts to stand up about his hate, now they have folded and they have gone with him.... This time, Republicans were very slow to respond — or even encouraging. ...."Republican senator Lindsey Graham backed the substance of the President's comments, but suggested tackling policy issues would be a better approach". Like I said, they're covering their own arses because they know they get mauled on election day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 16 July 2019 Share Posted 16 July 2019 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Like I said, they're covering their own arses because they know they get mauled on election day. Im suggesting its gone beyond that, initially they allowed him to get away with stuff simply for the Presidency, but they stood up for the "greater good of politics" and held to the Republicans beliefs, they have now actually allowed him to change the party. I have stopped following US politics because of its iddiocracy, so im in no real position to judge...but my guess is the Repubs are totally screwed for several elections after this cluster**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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