President Trump & the USA

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

 

I think its funny

 

I dont know about the other two either. I know Omar comes from Somalia - shitter of a place right?

 

AOC im quite sure comes from hell

 

Either way they hate the US, which AOC should be particularly grateful for because it has allowed her to be a politician despite being stupid and void of morals

 

Its not about race. Its about virtue signalling morons who have no gratitude for the country that provides them exceptional freedom in the world

It's not?

 

Bloody hell. What else, exactly, could his idea of "American" be?

 

Edit: Evidently the freedom spoken of here doesn't include the freedom to criticise/think your country could do better.

Edited 15 July 2019 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

On the topic itself, I believe this to be sadly par for the course and I don't actually think it will cost him much politically because there are plenty of people who think exactly the same,

[Jattdogg]

1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

 

I think its funny

 

I dont know about the other two either. I know Omar comes from Somalia - shitter of a place right?

 

AOC im quite sure comes from hell

 

Either way they hate the US, which AOC should be particularly grateful for because it has allowed her to be a politician despite being stupid and void of morals

 

Its not about race. Its about virtue signalling morons who have no gratitude for the country that provides them exceptional freedom in the world

If they hate the US then trump must be the devil who wants to torture the US. When it comes to being stupid and void of morals Trump takes that battle any day.

 

I'm by no means a huge fan of AOC but Trump is bang out of order here as the leader of all Americans. It's one thing to disagree with other politicians on issues and another to attack them  based on their ethnicity/background. It doesnt matter where they are from or when they came to America or if they are 1st ,2nd or 3rd generation Americans, they are bloody Americans!   KKK folk might be 20th generation  for all i know but he doesnt exactly tell them to go back to where they came from for not appreciating America.

 

[Jattdogg]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

On the topic itself, I believe this to be sadly par for the course and I don't actually think it will cost him much politically because there are plenty of people who think exactly the same,

Trump will win a second term on Democrat incompetence alone. Seems the party still needs to wake up from election night in 2016.

[leicsmac]

33 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Trump will win a second term on Democrat incompetence alone. Seems the party still needs to wake up from election night in 2016.

I think that's possible, but I think the Dems are collectively scrambling for a solution when no one really knows what that solution entails.

[Smudge]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think that's possible, but I think the Dems are collectively scrambling for a solution when no one really knows what that solution entails.

Once Sanders and Warren have been laid to rest I think we'll know more. Storming the Winter Palace isn't for right now.

[leicsmac]

26 minutes ago, Smudge said:

Once Sanders and Warren have been laid to rest I think we'll know more. Storming the Winter Palace isn't for right now.

Perhaps. A Clinton-style candidate didn't win in 2016, but perhaps the landscape has changed so much that it might be different next year.

 

The arguments regarding women and minority rights and environmental issues should speak for themselves, but...

Edited 15 July 2019 by leicsmac

[Smudge]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps. A Clinton-style candidate didn't win in 2016, but perhaps the landscape has changed so much that it might be different next year.

That's true but a drowning man will grasp at straws.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Smudge said:

That's true but a drowning man will grasp at straws.

Also true.

 

Goodness only knows how it's all going to turn out.

[CosbehFox]

7 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Telling a legally documented citizen of a country to "go back where you came from" is the dictionary definition of racism.  After all, the MAGA stuff is just about getting rid of illegal immigrants, there's nothing racist about it.  Agreed?

 

For the longest time Trump defenders have claimed that they wouldn't stand up for the guy if he actually said anything unambiguously racist.  Well he's just done exactly that, here's the golden opportunity to prove that you really just care about his policies and fighting for the forgotten man of no specific skin colour but have no truck with obviously prejudicial comments.  So far you're doing a poor job of it.

 

Trump’s first step within politics was to shout a blatant racist lie about the current President at the time. The intentions were clear then. World politics is at a sad crossroads of us v them

[Grebfromgrebland]

The problem with Trump's tweet is that it will emboldened racists both sides of the Atlantic to be more racist to their fellow citizens.

 

Will the likes of Boris Johnson, Farage, ITV etc condemn him? They wouldn't dare. 

 

I'd like to say we're moving into unprecedented times but we're not.  All of this is straight out of the Nazi playbook.  We've been down this route before only this time we're the bad guys. 

[Lionator]

5 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

The problem with Trump's tweet is that it will emboldened racists both sides of the Atlantic to be more racist to their fellow citizens.

 

Will the likes of Boris Johnson, Farage, ITV etc condemn him? They wouldn't dare. 

 

I'd like to say we're moving into unprecedented times but we're not.  All of this is straight out of the Nazi playbook.  We've been down this route before only this time we're the bad guys. 

I believe that the moment anyone in those camps on the border 'kicks off', they'll be murdered and it'll under the guise of protecting the country, when in fact it'll be genocide. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

Makes me think how many people are actually now living in camps around the world?

 

China, North Korea, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, many places in Africa, Porto Rico. There must be millions just in those countries.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

8 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Telling a legally documented citizen of a country to "go back where you came from" is the dictionary definition of racism.  After all, the MAGA stuff is just about getting rid of illegal immigrants, there's nothing racist about it.  Agreed?

 

For the longest time Trump defenders have claimed that they wouldn't stand up for the guy if he actually said anything unambiguously racist.  Well he's just done exactly that, here's the golden opportunity to prove that you really just care about his policies and fighting for the forgotten man of no specific skin colour but have no truck with obviously prejudicial comments.  So far you're doing a poor job of it.

 

Arent there questions around the legality of some of Omar's actions around immigration regarding relatives or something?

 

Think its more about politics than race meself

Edited 15 July 2019 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

It's not?

 

Bloody hell. What else, exactly, could his idea of "American" be?

 

Edit: Evidently the freedom spoken of here doesn't include the freedom to criticise/think your country could do better.

You are turning it into a race thing when it isnt. You are the one who can only see colour.  Trump is criticisng them based on their ideas and as usual he is inexact in his words which has the added value of annoying the moaners who want to see racism everywhere at the expense of exchanging ideas

 

And their arguments are losing so they are getting worse. Its very zzzzz

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

48 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I believe that the moment anyone in those camps on the border 'kicks off', they'll be murdered and it'll under the guise of protecting the country, when in fact it'll be genocide. 

Notions like this are what encourage that lunatic who just attacked a camp and got killed

 

If only you guys could consider that some of your ideas might have negative consequences

[MC Prussian]

10 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Telling a legally documented citizen of a country to "go back where you came from" is the dictionary definition of racism.  After all, the MAGA stuff is just about getting rid of illegal immigrants, there's nothing racist about it.  Agreed?

 

For the longest time Trump defenders have claimed that they wouldn't stand up for the guy if he actually said anything unambiguously racist.  Well he's just done exactly that, here's the golden opportunity to prove that you really just care about his policies and fighting for the forgotten man of no specific skin colour but have no truck with obviously prejudicial comments.  So far you're doing a poor job of it.

 

That's not what he was saying, though. Not exactly. You're taking his wording out of context. Trump said:

Quote

Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.

It's fascinating how fast the "racist" card is played again. Utterly fascinating. Let's use a bit of nuance, shall we?

 

How is that racist with regards to Ilhan Omar - trying to fix Somalia (where she was born) instead of giving round doses of racism to the people she doesn't like, who has had several incidents where she's been caught with antisemitic rhetoric? Will she ever explain herself why she was living with her brother, allegedly briefly married to him for her own (immigration) benefit?

http://www.startribune.com/new-documents-revisit-questions-about-rep-ilhan-omar-s-marriage/511681362/

 

I suppose she still holds two passports?

 

Tlaib is a US citizen and of Palestinian origin. I'd love her to act as a conduit for peace talks or improving living conditions in the Near East, for instance. Or Detroit, which is her home? She's been in state politics for about ten years now, what has changed? Just look at how bad it still is:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2018/07/31/why-has-detroit-continued-to-decline/#25a611f13fbe

Quote

Detroit’s struggles are about its inability to attract capital, business and economic growth. In fact, all those things stop abruptly at the city border, on all sides, before immediately resurfacing in the suburbs. And this is because such growth is largely discouraged by Detroit’s public administration.

A city administration dominated - yes, you guessed right - by Democrats for more than 55 years. What a legacy. Former mayor Kwame Kilpatrick being the poster boy of local corruption and greed - currently serves 28 years in prison.

@Detroit Blues: I think we've touched upon this, do you see improvement in the city?

 

Or AOC take more care of Puerto Rican issues, such as drugs, corruption, poverty and crime. Or the change of voting system (Puerto Ricans aren't allowed to participate in national votes or presidential votes, for instance).

 

The fourth congresswoman is Ayanna Pressley, originally from Ohio, then growing up in Chicago, now representing Massachusetts (Boston). I suppose you could say with all four congresswomen, that Trump tells them to take care of their homegrown issues (in the district they represent) first, in the sense of a grassroots movement or bottom-up approach in order to improve living and working conditions on a smaller scale before criticizing the POTUSA (or calling him a "motherf***er" as did Tlaib) for his alleged failures. That's how I read it.

Boston, just like any other major city in the US, could use improvements (to infrastructure, education, housing, against poverty, crime, aso), don't you think?

 

I'm not ok with the way Trump puts all four congresswomen into the same bin, as only Omar hasn't been born in the US. Then again, that depends on how you read that Tweet, as shorter sentences leave room for interpretation.

 

Again, people are getting their knickers in a twist over a Tweet. A Tweet. Judge a man by his actions, not by his words.

 

Edited 15 July 2019 by MC Prussian

[Mr Mister]

I can't believe there are people that defend racists.

[Buce]

Just now, Mr Mister said:

I can't believe there are people that defend racists.

 

Look at the views those people themselves hold and it becomes less surprising. 

[ealingfox]

57 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That's not what he was saying, though. Not exactly. You're taking his wording out of context. Trump said:

It's fascinating how fast the "racist" card is played again. Utterly fascinating. Let's use a bit of nuance, shall we?

 

How is that racist with regards to Ilhan Omar - trying to fix Somalia (where she was born) instead of giving round doses of racism to the people she doesn't like, who has had several incidents where she's been caught with antisemitic rhetoric? Will she ever explain herself why she was living with her brother, allegedly briefly married to him for her own (immigration) benefit?

http://www.startribune.com/new-documents-revisit-questions-about-rep-ilhan-omar-s-marriage/511681362/

 

I suppose she still holds two passports?

 

Tlaib is a US citizen and of Palestinian origin. I'd love her to act as a conduit for peace talks or improving living conditions in the Near East, for instance. Or Detroit, which is her home? She's been in state politics for about ten years now, what has changed? Just look at how bad it still is:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2018/07/31/why-has-detroit-continued-to-decline/#25a611f13fbe

A city administration dominated - yes, you guessed right - by Democrats for more than 55 years. What a legacy. Former mayor Kwame Kilpatrick being the poster boy of local corruption and greed - currently serves 28 years in prison.

@Detroit Blues: I think we've touched upon this, do you see improvement in the city?

 

Or AOC take more care of Puerto Rican issues, such as drugs, corruption, poverty and crime. Or the change of voting system (Puerto Ricans aren't allowed to participate in national votes or presidential votes, for instance).

 

The fourth congresswoman is Ayanna Pressley, originally from Ohio, then growing up in Chicago, now representing Massachusetts (Boston). I suppose you could say with all four congresswomen, that Trump tells them to take care of their homegrown issues (in the district they represent) first, in the sense of a grassroots movement or bottom-up approach in order to improve living and working conditions on a smaller scale before criticizing the POTUSA (or calling him a "motherf***er" as did Tlaib) for his alleged failures. That's how I read it.

Boston, just like any other major city in the US, could use improvements (to infrastructure, education, housing, against poverty, crime, aso), don't you think?

 

I'm not ok with the way Trump puts all four congresswomen into the same bin, as only Omar hasn't been born in the US. Then again, that depends on how you read that Tweet, as shorter sentences leave room for interpretation.

 

Again, people are getting their knickers in a twist over a Tweet. A Tweet. Judge a man by his actions, not by his words.

 

 

Impressive mental gymnastics this.

[MC Prussian]

9 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Impressive mental gymnastics this.

Then please break it down. Simple one-liners help little.

[MC Prussian]

31 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Look at the views those people themselves hold and it becomes less surprising. 

You mean the views you think or assume "those people" hold.

Meanwhile, I assume people are either on the political left or the right to you, no middle ground?

 

Anyone can instead call everyone to one's right a "racist" when he doesn't share one's political views, killing all sensitive argumentation or interest in debate instantly.

Calling everyone a *racist" in such broad contexts devalues the term, watering it down.

 

And once you're confronted with real racists, you don't know what's hitting you.

 

(Watch out, to your left...!)

 

[Finnegan]

 

I ****ing hate this "they hate America", "they're criticising America" rhetoric. Its ****ing stupid. 

 

Mostly because their own slogan is "make America great again", implying that America is not great now but we'd like it to improve. How is that any different from AOC and Co' having criticisms? 

 

They might have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "improving" the United States but that doesn't mean they hate the country and are trying to make it actively worse. 

 

There's loads of things about the UK I dislike and I'd love to make better that doesn't mean I hate the country in its entirety. 

 

It's just mindless nationalistic rhetoric incredibly transparently designed to rabble rouse chest thumping jingoistic patriots and closet racists. 

 

The sooner he ****s off the better. What a thoroughly vile little man. 

[ealingfox]

18 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Then please break it down. Simple one-liners help little.

 

Given that he specifically refers to countries in the first part, it's a frankly enormous leap of faith to suggest he was actually critiquing late-20th century municipal administration in Detroit, or current in Boston. Brilliant that you're accusing people of reading things that aren't there

 

Your insistence that someone from New York City of Puerto Rican heritage is somehow responsible for the administration of Puerto Rico is laughable.

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I ****ing hate this "they hate America", "they're criticising America" rhetoric. Its ****ing stupid. 

 

Mostly because their own slogan is "make America great again", implying that America is not great now but we'd like it to improve. How is that any different from AOC and Co' having criticisms? 

 

They might have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "improving" the United States but that doesn't mean they hate the country and are trying to make it actively worse. 

 

There's loads of things about the UK I dislike and I'd love to make better that doesn't mean I hate the country in its entirety. 

 

It's just mindless nationalistic rhetoric incredibly transparently designed to rabble rouse chest thumping jingoistic patriots and closet racists. 

 

The sooner he ****s off the better. What a thoroughly vile little man. 

Racists at the moment are about as far in the closet as Ricky Martin was.